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EARLY LEARNING => Homeschooling => Topic started by: cassidy336 on March 19, 2009, 05:24:08 PM



Title: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: cassidy336 on March 19, 2009, 05:24:08 PM
I'm all for educating my son but I'm wondering about schooling.  I don't really want to homeschool, but I don't want him to be bored in a typical school.  I'm prepared to send him to private school but from the limited amount of research I've done on schools I'm not sure that will be challenging enough.

My son isn't yet 2 so I have time to figure school out, but I have decided against preschool.  Does anyone have experience with kids that went to regular schools after learning so much so young? 



Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: trulypearl on March 19, 2009, 06:04:26 PM
My child is only 9 months old.  I have heard the same comments from moms in my mommy group.  They said that their older children were bored after attending public school.  Their child were too adavnce and lost all interest in learning.  This then cause them to fail not because they weren't smart but just plain didn't want to do the work because it was too easy.  I myself is afraid this might happen to my own child. 

Cassidy336 this is a great question and will return to this forum to read about others experiences. 


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: DadDude on March 19, 2009, 06:07:52 PM
There was a thread recently about this very question.  Click here (http://forum.brillkids.com/teaching-your-child-to-read/early-reader-later-in-life/)


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: cassidy336 on March 19, 2009, 06:25:33 PM
I think I'm more and more leaning towards homeschooling although I never really wanted to do it.  There are so many great opportunities out there now for homeschoolers - I know our zoo and aquarium have great classes - that I bet would be would a great experience.  And, I guess we are all homeschooling now to some degree since our kids are learning so much.  It would just be nice if the there was a good school that would challenge the children.  Maybe there are some good ones out there.



Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: DadDude on March 19, 2009, 07:11:11 PM
Personally, I would be very worried if we weren't planning on homeschooling.  I've recently become fairly familiar with what is taught in grades K-2 or so.  Those are all things that my boy, age 2, is starting to learn now.  If we continue on as we have been, then by age 5, he may have mastered this material, pretty much everything taught in grades K-2, completely.  This means that we will have intentionally brought our kid three grades ahead of his peers.  Intentionally.  And then we pack him off to school and make him learn all of that stuff again, for another three years?  In an ordinary public school, I wonder how he could fail to be bored.  I would expect him to be bored.  After the novelty of school itself wore off, it would be weird if he weren't bored.

Of course, it might not work out that way.  Maybe he won't learn so fast.  Maybe he'll be stuck learning bits and pieces of things from the K-2 curriculum, poorly, until he's five, and then Kindergarten would just solidify what he had learned poorly.  But based on everything I gather from reports here on BrillKids, TeachYourBabyToRead, other online forums, and books I've read, this isn't very likely.  Instead, if we continue on as we have been, then the kid is going to be "a few grades ahead," at least, and his grasp of the material will be good.

I do not wish to advocate for home schooling, because I know that's a very hard choice for a lot of people, and perhaps not feasible financially or for other reasons.  But, personally, I think early learning and homeschooling go hand-in-hand.  The reason, to me, is simple: they are both about maximizing the knowledge and understanding of your child by "doing it yourself."  The Doman folks are already "homeschooling" their preschoolers.  The sorts of things I'm doing now, as my boy's main "teacher," are just the sort of things I would expect to have to do as a homeschooling papa.

The two movements don't necessarily have to converge.  It depends in part on your approach.  Consider this--it's very interesting, I think.

I think there are two approaches to early education: a "mind-priming" method and a more ambitious "academic" method.  The "mind-priming" Doman method involves teaching your kid single words, then couplets, then sentences.  When it comes to "encyclopedic knowledge," I get the sense that many Doman families cover only a relatively limited number of topics, which is fine.  They don't try to cover "the whole curriculum."  Then, after age 3 or so, does Doman really have much to say what to do with children?  Maybe not.  You can keep showing them flashcards, but at a certain point the flashcards go away and the focus of "academic" learning switches to more substantial media like books.  But basically, the kid might then go into preschool, or do a little more "academic" work, but nothing too ambitious.  The purpose of this ordinary Doman method is basically just to give your child a leg up, an advantage, so his or her mind is "prepped" for a childhood and lifetime of learning.  This makes sense and it's great.  And it looks perfectly consistent with a slightly "accelerated" or "gifted" sort of public school education.  I can see a Doman kid educated in this way fitting in well in a public school, as long as they had some "accelerated" programs for "gifted" kids.

But I get the sense that there is another sort of Doman family, more aggressively "academic," which doesn't use the method to "prep" the mind in some vague (but real and beneficial) way, but instead uses it as the first stage in a years-long concerted effort to impart boatloads of facts, experiences, and skills--as long as the kid remains motivated and interested in learning.  I saw someone online saying recently that their kid read Charlotte's Web to her parents at age 2.5--seems hard to believe, but after what I've learned in the last few months, I do believe it.  This is going to be one of those kids who reads The Lord of the Rings at age 5, as I heard someone say about her kid on the TeachYourBabyToRead mailing list.  Then there's the kid who was showcased on some talk show (Ellen, I think it was), who at age 5 was rattling off facts about presidents and reading very fluently out of Ellen Degeneris' book.  A kid doesn't get that way by accident, by casually browsing through books.  The parents are highly motivated and they lead a child through a lot of material.  They don't limit themselves to flashcards and the other elements of the Doman method, because the Doman method couldn't teach all those things.  Rather, they are reading lots of books, watching educational videos, maybe taking classes, taking educational outings, talking all the time to their kids, doing Montessori, doing actual sports and music lessons, etc.  They do not necessarily have to "push" their children because the children have grown up this way and like all these educational activities.  But, of course, some of these parents do push their kids, more than they should do, probably with some bad effects--that's a danger those with the "academic" approach should be careful of, I think.

Now, frankly, I don't see how you could put a 5-year-old kid who could read The Lord of the Rings to himself into a typical public school, even a typical accelerated program.  I imagine that a typical accelerated Kindergarten program will teach at, say, a first or second grade level.  That's not advanced enough for this kid.  He won't be just a little bored, he'll be tortured and bored out of his skull.

Similarly, there are two different approaches to homeschooling (or, instead, two points on a spectrum of approaches).  There's the unschooling approach, which lets the kid do whatever he wants, is very suspicious of too many books or too much of organized anything.  These are the people who want to "let their kids be kids," who emphasize the educational aspects of play, and so forth.  Then there's the classical schooling approach, who take Education very seriously, who have a big long curriculum to master and, if it is mastered, the kid will emerged very well educated and prepared for whatever he wants to do in life, including (but not necessarily) a professional or academic life.

Now I can get to my point.  I think the "academic" approach to early education, which goes beyond the basics that Doman provides, goes hand-in-hand with classical approach to homeschooling, or something like it.  (One wouldn't have to follow all the advice of the various people who describe their approach as "classical" necessarily.)  If you are starting out by going out of your way to give your child lots and lots of learning experiences, then it becomes harder to justify handing the child over to a school that does not meet his needs.  It would be more natural to just continue doing what you have been doing--which is homeschooling.

I can put my most important point very briefly.  If you're the kind of parent who is catering to your child's thirst for knowledge in the most active way, with much reading, showing flash cards, some educational videos, etc., etc., and you plan to do this from age 0 until age 5 or so, and you're then going to put your kid into a regular public school (or even a reasonably good private, parochial, or charter school), then I have to wonder.  Why are you doing all this intensive teaching when the amount of substantial teaching is going to drop dramatically when junior goes off to school, and the things junior is taught in Kindergarten or the first grade are exactly what he learned when he was 1 or 2 or 3?

Doesn't that cause a bit of cognitive dissonance?


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: hafam on March 19, 2009, 09:28:35 PM
Hi

I will do more research on this and possibility of homeschooling as soon as my material preparation for my baby ease a bit.

However I do wonder how I can do homeschooling when I have to go to work for our family living. As the kid grows up, the material is much more advanced and preparation time is harder. Not to talk about our knowledge is very limited, how can we find out info enough to teach our kids what we have no clue about.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: clementine428 on March 19, 2009, 09:57:33 PM
In regard to hafam's comment: "As the kid grows up, the material is much more advanced and preparation time is harder. Not to talk about our knowledge is very limited, how can we find out info enough to teach our kids what we have no clue about."

I was in public school through 8th grade at which point my parents homeschooled me. My mother and father never went to college, so our family thought it was a horrible idea but it actually worked out very well. I was always raised to believe that education was fun and extremely important so I actually had no problem teaching myself the subjects that my mother wasn't good at, like math and grammar. For other classes, like writing classes or biology I was able to take classes at community colleges and with other homeschool groups. Now, it  is rare that any child would take an interest in teaching themselves but most of them aren't taught by their parents the value of a good education like  I was. By the time I was a senior in high school, I was teaching myself calculus (and I'm not a math genius at all). My family wondered if I really was learning anything, but when I took the SAT and the scores came back, they realized that the scores were high enough to get me into Yale, so homeschooling really was working.

The other option is to homeschool until high school, which is what my two best friends from college did. They were very successful homeschooling and the advanced classes offered in high school continued stimulating them. They both had SAT scores in the upper 1 % of the nation, with one of them having a full scholarship to Princeton.

I definitely suggest homeschooling but you need to be aware of the legal issues in your state. California, where I grew up, is very strict about homeschooling and as far as I know just last year was considering making into law that all homeschooling parents have a teaching credential. That idea was thrown out though. A good place to start looking for information is the home school legal defense association. 


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: cassidy336 on March 19, 2009, 11:59:25 PM
DadDude, you make some very good points.  My son has pushed me from day one. I'm here because I wasn't doing enough with him and I searched and searched to find something that would satisfy his need to learn.  He already has a "favorite president" and loves as much of this information that I will teach him.  He is leaps and bounds ahead of kids twice his age, and we have only actively been doing Doman for a month.  I guess it is hard to accept that I'm going to homeschool because it almost doesn't seem like a choice, it seems like a natural progression.  Then again, if anyone told me I would be nursing an almost 2 year old, or having my next child in a birthing center, I would have laughed!

I believe it was Doman who said that schools could handle gifted kids, but not kids with IQs of 200, which is what most of us are probably creating. I'm so thankful for the internet because it will make things much easier I'm sure.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: Tiger Lily on March 20, 2009, 01:02:57 AM
Hi everyone,

I have just been exploring this exact question.  Homeschooling v's traditional schooling. I am a primary teacher and I know I could teach my child better than anyone else.  It would be one on one, I know the curriculum and we could work at our own pace.  My husband is supportive of this and is an engineer so higher order maths and science would be covered. HOWEVER, after much deliberation, we have decided to send our daughter to a private school for the following reasons:

1.  Socialisation. To make real connections with other children and build relationships is just as important as academics.  To learn to tolerate people we don't necessarily like is important to our teenage and adulthood years.

2.  Feeling accomplished.  I want our daughter to be proud of her achievements and accept awards at assembly or be able to be the best in the class at whatever her special skill is.

3.  Independence.   I know our children grow up way too quickly and we want them with us all the time, but I think it allows the child to develop their own sense of being when they are exposed to different people and different situations. 

BUT

In saying I will send my daughter off to school but this will not stop me from being a part of her schooling.  I expect the teacher to keep me up to date with what the children are learning, so we can extend on these topics further at home.  As my daughter is so hungry for information and she learns so quickly, I would expect a program to be put in place for her.  If she is reading by the time she is at school, then it is the teachers obligation to ensure my daughter has a challenging curriculum, just like the other students.  I will be monitoring this and ensuring my daughter gets what she needs.

I think as a teacher the biggest misconception from parents is that they can not play a part in the schooling. 
- Volunteer in the class for reading/spelling/science etc
- have regular meetings with the teacher
- communicate on a regular basis
- have your child show you what they have been doing in the classroom in the mornings/afternoons when you drop them off
- have projects that are on the same/similar topic that you can do at home, but your child can then share with the class

I feel better knowing that we are sending our daughter to a very well disciplined school and know that I am there to support and back her up the whole way.  She will have the best of both worlds.



Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: DadDude on March 20, 2009, 05:21:14 AM
On the socialization question, the following book is really good:

Guterson, Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes Sense

Another good discussion of this is in The Well-Trained Mind, but that is more expensive.

My impression is that most active homeschoolers sincerely believe that their kids are being better socialized at home and many "extra-curricular activities" than they would be surrounded by their peers in an institutional setting.  Many studies back this up, I gather.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: norcalmommy on March 20, 2009, 07:52:05 AM
I'm going to the library tomorrow to pick up The Well Trained Mind as it seems like a very interesting book.

DadDude & Cassidy336,  Would you share how you organize your lesson plans for your child(ren). DadDude, you mentioned you recently became familiar with K-2 curriculum - what were some of you best resources? I'm truly trying to develop a plan for teaching my son that is well thought out and is fun for him.  What do your programs look like and what resources have you found most helpful?

Thanks!


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: cassidy336 on March 20, 2009, 10:51:06 AM
I don't have lesson plans at this point.  I want to get there and I go back and forth feeling guilty for not doing them now since it is the best time for him to learn and then thinking that he isn't even 2 and if he only wants to watch trucks he is still building his right brain.

I know I want him to learn Spanish so I try to show him at least one video with Spanish audio on it everyday.  I also try to do at least one math presentation.  Other than that we just go with what he wants.  Sometimes we go over Presidents for 30 minutes, other times he only wants to watch trucks. 

This is all so new to me that I will get a plan soon, but it will still be based on what he is interested in.   I have a great attachment moms group with great kids so we have an art in the park morning and friday playdates and I like us both socializing with people that I respect and like.

I think socializing would be the biggest reason why I wouldn't want to homeschool.  I'm sure the research DadDude posted will show that homeschoolers are fine in that regard.  I just want him to have a crush on someone and to see the same kids on a regular basis.  My husband has had the same friends since he was 5 years old.  I really want that for my son.  I realize there are ways to connect with homeschoolers in the area and I have several friends that aren't doing preschool so they will at least be around for the next few years.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: purplefungi on March 20, 2009, 01:40:46 PM
I'm definitaly thinking about homeschooling. There is really little reason why we shouldn't. I think that by sending children who have been taught so early on subjects that I didn't know about until I was a teenager, I would be doing them a huge disservice. Could you imagine sitting in a class room being taught things that your mom or dad showed you when you were two? It would be so boring. I would want to dissembowel myself in class.  ;)

I do believe, however, that as parents we need to review material and go into greater depths in the subjects that were first introduced to our children as babies. This is just the natural progression of higher learning. We will have to education ourselves on how to best transition from the Doman method to something more traditional as our children age. We will be doing this together!

Our children have been given a wonderful advantage in life. My in-laws see how brilliant my two-year-old is every time that he goes over to their house. They always say, "I don't remember our children doing that at his age!" It's not because he is smart, it's because he has been given educational opportunities, love, and encouragement since the day he was born.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: DadDude on March 20, 2009, 03:18:20 PM
DadDude & Cassidy336,  Would you share how you organize your lesson plans for your child(ren). DadDude, you mentioned you recently became familiar with K-2 curriculum - what were some of you best resources? I'm truly trying to develop a plan for teaching my son that is well thought out and is fun for him.  What do your programs look like and what resources have you found most helpful?

"Lesson plans" posted elsewhere (well, not the lesson plans but a description of what I do).  Resources for becoming familiar with the curriculum, well...just making new presentations has required me to study things, just to make sure I've gotten it right.  We also got a number of educational books that discuss curriculum matters.  One of them is The Children's Literature Lover's Book of Lists, which covers nonfiction as well as story books.  I also, for my "day job," have studied state standards from time to time.  They're published online, just search Google on "state standards".


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: cassidy336 on March 20, 2009, 06:06:24 PM
If you do decide to homeschool, would you wait until the child is 18 to send them to college?  I know there are AP classes now so kids can go to college with 48 credits, can homeschoolers get AP credit? 

I guess I thought if my son went to a private school that he would skip a grade or two.  If I do homeschool I will of course keep teaching him things, but I'm wondering if you can do AP credit and still have them enter college early, with a bunch of credits. 

I want my son to fit in with other kids, but I want to make sure that he is challenged.  If he is ready for college material early, then it would just make sense to start on it.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: nhockaday on March 20, 2009, 07:30:07 PM
If you do decide to homeschool, would you wait until the child is 18 to send them to college?  I know there are AP classes now so kids can go to college with 48 credits, can homeschoolers get AP credit? 

I guess I thought if my son went to a private school that he would skip a grade or two.  If I do homeschool I will of course keep teaching him things, but I'm wondering if you can do AP credit and still have them enter college early, with a bunch of credits. 

I want my son to fit in with other kids, but I want to make sure that he is challenged.  If he is ready for college material early, then it would just make sense to start on it.


I homeschooled my last 2 years in high school. You are allowed to go to college here (it was at our local Technical college) and take dual credit courses. I took 2 math classes and got both high school and college credits at the same time. I was 16 when I took my first college course :D


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: norcalmommy on March 20, 2009, 07:49:24 PM
At this point, I don't have a stance on homeschooling my son. I will wait until the time comes (or is a little closer) to evaluate the options and his knowledge against the curriculum for the schools.  I will not, however, hold back his learning in anyway between now and then to help ensure he 'fit in' the typical sub-standard education system.

I wanted to comment regarding skipping grades in private/public school.  Think long and hard about doing this - even if your child 'seems' mature enough to handle it. There's a lot more to a grade level in pub/priv school than academics.  I myself was in GATE all through elementary and skipped two grade and went into a private highschool.  I know other who have as well. While I was able to handle the school work, I wasn't ready for the social, hormonal and other pressured interactions. Plus I while my fellow students were getting their drivers licenses, I was still 14. There's a HUGE difference between 14 and 16 in so many ways. Teenagers want to grow up so quickly anyway - to have the added pressure of being completely surrounded by older kids - I missed a lot of interaction with true peers.   While I ultimately did fine, it's not an experience I would be quick to recreate for my child. 

It is not easy to predict the future, so I'm just focusing on the present ~ Doing the things that excite my child, growing his curiosity about the world, playing and having fun. 


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: purplefungi on March 20, 2009, 10:13:07 PM
I, on the other hand, loved being ahead of the game. I tested out of some classes in high school so I was taking all the AP courses that I could in addition to senior courses my junior year of school. I loved going to the community college when I was supposed to be a senior. It made me feel kind of special to be done with school even though I knew that I wasn't any smarter than anyone else.

I guess it depends a lot on the child's emotional maturity. Some kids will thrive working along side of adults, and some kids won't. We will have to just play close attention to our children and their tendencies. They will help guide us. :)


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: DadDude on March 21, 2009, 12:11:55 AM
If you do decide to homeschool, would you wait until the child is 18 to send them to college?  I know there are AP classes now so kids can go to college with 48 credits, can homeschoolers get AP credit? 

I guess I thought if my son went to a private school that he would skip a grade or two.  If I do homeschool I will of course keep teaching him things, but I'm wondering if you can do AP credit and still have them enter college early, with a bunch of credits. 

I want my son to fit in with other kids, but I want to make sure that he is challenged.  If he is ready for college material early, then it would just make sense to start on it.

I've thought about this.  My answer is, "I'd want the kid to wait until 18."  Why get the kid out in the college environment, if anything more corrosive to young characters (and young minds, to a certain extent) than school, when he's still an extremely impressionable young teenager?  And when there is so much more to learn?  I look at it this way: when I was in college, I was very disappointed that I could not major in a half-dozen subjects.  I thought that, to be really well educated, I should be familiar with a little of everything (and more than a little of many things).  If a kid is already capable of doing college-level work at 12 or 15, that's another 3 or 6 years in which to become really educated, as opposed to just getting a diploma or its equivalent.  Who cares about a high school diploma?  That's virtually meaningless.  And what is the rush about going to college?  College means specialization (i.e., majoring).  Well, I don't care how brilliant a kid is, or when he started reading, he just hasn't gotten the most solid possible foundation in general knowledge by age 12, or whatever.  He is no doubt much better educated than most 18-year-olds, but who cares?  What's the rush?

I guess that, with a really well-educated teenager, you might need to hire tutors.  Well, if you live near a college, you could do that, and for not too much money.  (This is another thing I have, a long time ago, thought a lot about.)

I suppose there is the worry, then...how will these kids fit in academically in college when, at age 18 or whenever they start, they're better-educated than most college graduates?  Hmm...same question, different age...well, let's just say that a good college is really challenging to, and will benefit, anybody.  And, as long as the student hasn't already "mastered" (at the college level) some subject he wants to study in college, there's plenty to learn at college.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: cassidy336 on March 21, 2009, 12:57:41 AM
I guess none of us really know what college will be like in 15 years or so.  I mean, 15 years ago the internet barely existed.  I know there are some interent classes now, but maybe then there will be tons of them.  I guess a student could take internet college classes when they were ready, and like DadDude said, just learn about a bunch of things and not just one major. 

Things change for us month to month so even thinking about what we will do in 3 years is somewhat silly, nevermind 16 years.  By the time my son is ready for school I think he will also be ready to give me his opinion about what he wants to do. Now, I just wish he would sleep through the night   :biggrin:


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: GloriaD on March 21, 2009, 02:25:08 AM
Anyone interested in a bit of history - here it is - a book that compiles research done for over 15 years on over 300 preschool homelearners who went to enter mainstream educational institutions. Did preschool home learning really have any effect on the children's classrooms performance, social life or behavior?

Answer to that question : Kids who Start Ahead Stay Ahead, by Dr. Neil Harvey
http://www.amazon.com/Kids-Start-Ahead-Neil-Harvey/dp/0895296144
($3.49 new as of today)

 
Also in regards why homeschool is a better choice for some parents see:
The call to Brillance by Resa Steindel Brown.

Hope this helps

Gloria
 :D


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: Nikita on March 21, 2009, 06:38:38 AM
There's an easy way to homeschool, which means that the exact curriculum in your area is covered, so if ever you sent them to school, they'd be up to speed (even though well past that).  In Victoria, australia, it's called Distance Education, and it covers what the State public system learn.  It's cheap, and most cost is the fortnightly posting work in. Keeps the government happy as you meet the guidelines, yet you can teach your own stuff on top of it.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: purplefungi on March 21, 2009, 06:04:20 PM
We should move to Australia! :)

I agree with daddude. It is sad that by the time that our children reach college, they will have to specialize in one or two particular subjects. I think that it is the Japanese who prefer a broader education. I don't know which is better -to know a lot about one thing or to have a small knowledge of a lot of different things.

For me, it was hard to pick just one thing to study. I love many different subjects and envisioned myself becoming a teacher so that I could teach the subjects that I enjoyed. At the same time, I didn't want to be limited to just teaching. I wanted to be an astrophysicist, a bioloist, and even a doctor (stupid ER). ;)

I think that is why I am 26 and just now finishing another nursing degree. I have spent the last 8-9 years in college studying a range of subjects from astronomy to women's literature. Every class that I take makes me view the world in a different light. However, at the same time, I am getting older and feel the need for a more advanced degree. Who wants to do bedside nursing for the rest of their life? My education so far does not count for anything because it is not in one subject even though I can converse about business or anthropology if I needed to. That being said, it is time for me to focus on one thing.

I wish that I could have had my "season" of general knowledge learning earlier in my education, however, because subjects like philosophy and economics usually aren't taught at the secondary level I would not learn have learned them until college. Once I got to college, there were not enough of general education requirements needed to satisfy my hunger for knowledge. I believe that this is where homeschooling comes in to play with my children. I will teach them everything I can about the subjects that I have learned in college before and during their high school years. One of the goals in this mission will be to prepare them to decide what they want to spend the rest of their lives doing. This, in my mind, can only be accomplished if they are exposed to the greatest variety of subjects as possible.

What will happen when my children reach college age? They might not even choose to attend college, and this is okay with me along as they are happy and can support themselves. If they do choose to go to college will they be ahead of their peers? Of course they will because they will have already been taught the general subjects usually taught for the first two or so years of college. Maybe at this time they can work on being emotionally more mature, or maybe they will be fortunate enought to attend a college specifically designed to challenge advanced students.

I know at my community college they do allow home schoolers to take classes. This would be most ideal if my children want to take more classes, in say, chemistry since I will probably be unable to create an entire chemistry lab in my garage or basement. This will give further opportunity for them to see what the real world is like and allow them to know what working with people of different ages is like. It will also be interesting to see what role that the internet plays in education during the upcoming years. Education as we know it probably will not be the same.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: DadDude on March 21, 2009, 06:15:07 PM
Anyone interested in a bit of history - here it is - a book that compiles research done for over 15 years on over 300 preschool homelearners who went to enter mainstream educational institutions. Did preschool home learning really have any effect on the children's classrooms performance, social life or behavior?

Answer to that question : Kids who Start Ahead Stay Ahead, by Dr. Neil Harvey
http://www.amazon.com/Kids-Start-Ahead-Neil-Harvey/dp/0895296144
($3,49 new as of today)

First, Gloria, let me say that this book does at least give some reason to believe that many children who go through the Doman program will be doing just fine in school when they are the ages of the kids in the study.  So, I'll grant you that.

Gloria, I hate to be negative, but I got a copy of the Harvey book and, while I'm not done reading it, I don't find it particularly persuasive.  At least, the study he reports on isn't.  The study design seems substandard.  First, there is no control group.  This is extremely important, because one of the blindingly obvious explanations of good performance among Doman learners is that the parents of Doman kids have higher IQ or academic preparation than average.  So the results really have to be compared to a similar group of families, families with exactly the same range of intelligence, well-education, and above all, motivation to teach their children.  Because, after all, it's the method that's being tested here, it isn't the wonderful effects of having motivated parents.  Surely nobody will doubt much or will be very surprised that having motivated parents will lead to smarter kids.  So, compare parents who aren't using Doman methods, who are still very concerned about their children's education, with those who are.

Second, the study is based on a survey in which there is an obvious potential for self-selection bias: who is going to write in to an Institutes researcher to say that their Doman-trained children are doing poorly?  A lot smaller percentage, anyway, than those who write in to brag.

Third, the survey questions are incredibly vague.  "How is your child doing socially?  Specifically, how are relations with peers, teachers, other adults?"  Choices: Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor.  Then: "How is your child doing intellectually?  (a) In reading?  In math?"  Same choices.

I am very sure that many parents who go to the trouble of going through the Doman program may also be unusually inclined to boost their estimate of their children's abilities.  It's the Lake Woebegon effect--you know, in Lake Woebegon, all the children are above average.

Quite frankly, I am very suspicious of a group that goes out of its way to portray itself to the general public as a scientific institution (The Institutes for the Achievement of Human Potential?), and has not, in its 40+ years of existence, published ONE SINGLE peer-reviewed study of the effectiveness of their methods.  This is not to impugn the methods themselves, but it is to impugn the scientific pretentions of the Institutes.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: DadDude on March 21, 2009, 06:30:29 PM
There's an easy way to homeschool, which means that the exact curriculum in your area is covered, so if ever you sent them to school, they'd be up to speed (even though well past that).  In Victoria, australia, it's called Distance Education, and it covers what the State public system learn.  It's cheap, and most cost is the fortnightly posting work in. Keeps the government happy as you meet the guidelines, yet you can teach your own stuff on top of it.

I don't know, but it's my impression that there are free distance education programs in at least many states in the U.S.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virtual_schools  Some homeschoolers are a little annoyed with them because they are directly competing with homeschooling...which doesn't quite make sense to me.  They're competing with homeschooling curriculum providers, yes (these schools provide the curriculum for free).

I'm pretty sure we won't be using these services, though.  We might.  I'm sure we'll look carefully at them when the time comes, but having to do a lot of public school busywork, even if it is via the Internet, doesn't sound like fun.  Obviously, it depends on the quality of the curriculum/materials, but U.S. public school systems in general aren't too good at choosing materials, IMHO.  I'm sure it doesn't matter if the materials will be delivered online or not.  The same curriculum specialists will be making the choices, I'm sure.  On the other hand, maybe the fact that these virtual schools are having to compete with homeschooling methods will force them to make better methods available.

Obviously, things could be different in Australia.  Who knows, maybe we'll be able to "telecommute" for our education to the Aussie schools!  Outsourcing, yeah!  I'm sure the NEA would love that!

For us, I'm sure we won't be following any very strict curriculum, as I explained earlier.


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: DadDude on March 21, 2009, 06:35:19 PM
Check out the claims of this Utah virtual school: http://www.k12.com/utva/teaching_accelerated_learners/


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: Nikolett on March 21, 2009, 08:07:12 PM
Is it free as well?


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: Nikolett on March 21, 2009, 08:09:00 PM
OK,you have to live in Utah and it's free, my question is off. :blush:


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: purplefungi on March 21, 2009, 09:06:25 PM
We can all move to Utah! :)


Title: Re: How will these kids fit in academically in school?
Post by: rose08 on March 21, 2009, 10:27:54 PM
Its good to see so many people thinking about home schooling as this is what we are pretty much doing already. :)