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Author Topic: Relationship between language & maths  (Read 11089 times)
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Chris1
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« on: December 24, 2008, 12:36:01 AM »

Found this on the web- 

Asian people, especially the Chinese, are often particularly good at math because of their language. The system of words used for numbers in Chinese is far more clear and logical than in Indo-European languages. There are Chinese words for the numbers 1-9 ( yi, er, san, si, wu, liu, qi, ba, jiu ), plus multipliers 10 ( shi ), 100 ( bai ), and 10,000 ( wan ). There are no special words for the numbers 11-19 or multiples of ten (20, 30, and so on). Thus 11 is shi yi (ten one). The number 35 is san shi wu (three ten five). Note that the words relate more closely to the symbols, making them easier to understand. Kevin Miller and his colleagues found that four-yearold Chinese children, on average, could count to 40, while American children of the same age could count only to 15. This delay is due to the difficulties with the "teens" numbers, which do not follow the same pattern as other numbers. While American children do eventually catch up, by that time, Chinese children would have had several years more experience handling larger numbers than their American counterparts.

The conciseness of the Chinese number words is also an advantage. Our memory span for a list of numbers relates directly to the length of the words used for those numbers. Native Chinese speakers can routinely remember strings of nine or 10 numbers, whereas native English speakers can only manage six or seven. smile



« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 01:37:54 AM by Chris1 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2008, 05:41:10 AM »

Yes, having gone to elementary school in Japan, I agree with what you wrote.  They had a nice sing-songy way of learning the times tables in Japanese.  Each number (1-10) had one sylable and we'd just go through the times table very quickly (ie.  go go nijugo - five times five equals twenty).  And as you said, the language easily lent itself to a base 10 system (nijugo ni-two ju-ten go-five).  Then, we also have a few abacus lessons in school.  It is a nice pictoral, tactile way of doing math. 

Did I read somewhere that someone did a similar thing for english numbers?  That is, assigning each number a sylable so that one could memorize larger numbers easily?  I'd be interested if anyone has info on that.  smile

When I was in Japan, I thought I was behind in math.  Then, I moved to America and, lo and behold, I was ahead.   blush

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« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2008, 11:36:35 AM »

I am very interested in this discussion.  I really hope to hear more from people on this.  Thanks for interesting topic!

Tracey
Canberra, Australia

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Chris1
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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2008, 10:42:21 PM »

Some additional information on memorizing numbers as requested-taken from my earlier post under Shichida.

Details of the Peg System can be found at   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mnemonic_peg_system 

Memorization of numbers — the children practice memorization of a thousand images linked to numbers. Eventually they will be able to recall any number combination using image-association. Presumably this is taught after maths has been mastered.
I couldn't obtain details about the images taught but imagine that is is similar to the Peg system. This system uses the basic consonant sounds to represent the ten digits: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 0. It is the phonetic sound that matters and it is the sound that represents the numeral. For example, the letters T and D make a similar phonetic sound-one is harder than the other.

1=T,D                                                             
2=N                                                                     
3=M                                                                     .   
4=R                                                                   
5=L
6=J,SH,CH, soft G
7=K, hard C, hard G
8=F,V,PH
9=P,B
0=S,Z, and soft C

Possible images 1-20:  Tie, Noah, Ma, Rye, Law, SHoe, Cow, iVy, Bee, ToeS, ToT, TiN, ToMb, TyRe, ToweL, DiSH, TacK, DoVe, TuB and NoSe.

This system can be used to recall historical dates, telephone numbers etc-an adult or child can easily learn how to recall a 100 digit number forwards or backwards using this method.

0. Sea    10. Toes    20. Nose   30. Mouse  40. Rose   
    1. Hat    11. Dot     21. Net    31. Mat    41. Road
    2. Hen    12. Town    22. Nun    32. Moon   42. Rain
    3. Ham    13. Dime    23. Name   33. Mummy  43. Room
    4. Rye    14. Tire    24. Nero   34. Mower  44. Aurora
    5. Hill   15. Doll    25. Nail   35. Mule   45. Roll
    6. Shoe   16. Tissue  26. Notch  36. Match  46. Rash
    7. Cow    17. Duck    27. Neck   37. Mug    47. Rock
    8. Ivy    18. Taffy   28. Knife  38. Movie  48. Roof
    9. Bee    19. Tape    29. Knob   39. Map    49. Rope

   50. Lace   60. Cheese  70. Gas    80. Fez    90. Bus    00. Susie
   51. Light  61. Sheet   71. Cat    81. Fat    91. Bat    01. Seed
   52. Lion   62. Chain   72. Can    82. Fan    92. Pen    02. Sun
   53. Lime   63. Jam     73. Comb   83. Foam   93. Opium  03. Seam
   54. Lure   64. Cherry  74. Car    84. Fire   94. Bear   04. Sarah
   55. Lily   65. Jello   75. Coal   85. File   95. Bell   05. Seal
   56. Leech  66. Judge   76. Cage   86. Fish   96. Beach  06. Sash
   57. Log    67. Chalk   77. Coke   87. Fog    97. Book   07. Sack
   58. Lava   68. Chef    78. Cave   88. Fife   98. Puff   08. Sofa
   59. Lip    69. Ship    79. Cape   89. Fib    99. Pipe   09. Sap

 You can use a different image provided the sounds are appropriate-some possible alternatives to those listed above-
3. Ma  5. Law  12. Tin  13. Tomb  14. Tyre  15. Towel  16. Dish 17. Tack 18. Dove  19. Tub  41. Rod  43. Ram  44. Rower  64. Chair 79. Cap  92. Bone  95. Ball 100. Daises

Chris. smile
 

« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 11:07:58 PM by Chris1 » Logged
THen
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2008, 03:07:10 PM »

Wow Chris!  That is very helpful.   smile
Have you are anyone else used this technique to help with memorization?  I'd love to hear any experiences with how it was learned and how it was applied.  Thanks again Chris!  K to you.

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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2008, 04:48:40 PM »

Very interesting!  Yes, the number system used in Chinese (and I think other Oriental languages like Japanese and Korean) is very simple and 'logical' like Chris pointed out.  It's incredible that the 'teens' in English (and other Western languages) could make such a significant difference to children!

As for memory systems, I heard of Tony Buzan's mind maps, but only came across the memory pegging system over the past couple of years.  I first came across it through Shichida.  I later read about it from Derren Brown's book (Derren Brown is the UK's answer to David Blaine, sort of, except I think the things he does are much more interesting (to me anyway).  One of his great abilities is the ability to memorize large chunks of stuff, and he says memory pegging is one of the methods he uses.)

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Chris1
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 07:28:43 PM »

Hi THen,

This link    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9NROegsMqNc&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/9NROegsMqNc&rel=1</a>     should provide you with enough information to apply the system.

Hope that you find it interesting.

Chris.

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KL
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 12:49:00 AM »

Yep, that's pretty much the same method outlined by Darren Brown, and what I saw was being done in a Shichida class. I think they call it memory-pegging?

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THen
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2009, 04:18:47 AM »

Thank you Chris.  I like the video clip.  I think that will be very helpful for me and the boys. 

Now, I just need to figure out how to practically teach the older boys the math pegging.  I'll ponder on it and figure out what step to take first.  Should I teach them the sounds first, or just start with the pictures?  That might help them learn the sounds, too, right? 

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Chris1
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2009, 11:50:35 PM »

Hi THen,

  I guess it depends on their age. I found that learning the initial 10 enabled me to work out the others if an image didn't immediately come to mind.

It is probably easier to use pictures with younger children and babies. Older children find it easier to follow the instruction to visualize the required image.  With babies it is probably best to use pictures to construct Silly Stories. Shichida uses this method to develop an ability to visualize and link images.

 http://www.acceleratedlearningmethods.com/memory-linking.html
 
Books by Harry Lorrayne cover the various systems in detail and the library might have a copy.

Chris.




« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 11:55:10 PM by Chris1 » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2009, 01:54:43 AM »

Thanks Chris!

I have both, older and younger.   blink   
I'll look for that book, too.

Thanks again!  smile

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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2009, 03:51:58 PM »

Up till a few days ago, I've been teaching numbers to my baby in English. After reading this post, which made so much sense to me, I started focusing more on speaking Chinese, especially when it comes to numbers. I've added these downloads:

Numbers Chinese (red dots) 11-15
http://forum.brillkids.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=3432

Numbers Chinese (red dots) 16-20
http://forum.brillkids.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=3433

Joan

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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2009, 03:10:31 PM »

Thanks to Chris, after reading your post i think i should reconsider teaching my baby Maths by using Chinese as well. But i did worry he will only know the number in Chinese instead of English. Coz we did teach the baby wave his hand & shake hand in Chinese, but wheneven our friend want to play with our baby and talk to him in English he have no response to them at all.

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Chris1
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2010, 01:38:53 PM »

Multiplier and the multiplicand?

The number which is multiplied is the multiplicand.

If you say 5X3 are you saying that a set of 5 things is added together 3 times (5+5+5) or a set of 3 things is added together 5 times (3+3+3+3+3)? By convention, the first number (multiplicand) is the size of the set and the second number (multiplier) is the times the set is repeated. So, 5X3 means 5 things added together 3 times (5+5+5).

0x2          2 sets of 0           0+0
1x2          2 sets of 1           1+1
3x2          2 sets of 3           3+3
4x2          2 sets of 4           4+4

The above convention is not always followed and is likely to be a source of confusion.

Chris.


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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 07:29:11 PM »

I've been looking for such a thread, thanks for sharing, chris!

i do disagree with the cause of the findings, though.  i think it has less to do with the sound, per se, of the words, and more to do with the fact that the culture finds it commonplace to expose children to numbers. 

personal experience with joey - he didn't get into chinese until this past month or so, passively - thanks to mickey.

he's been counting to 10 in eng, span & fren since just over a year - same with his parts of the body.  we stopped reinforcing with him, due to complications with our second pregnancy and birth recovery, but at 30 months he's still quite familiar with 1 - 100 forwards and backwards, as well as with the multiples of tens up to a billion.

i do think that a simpler language structure that encourages numbers DOES help, but i don't believe that this is the primary reason for why 4 year olds in the US are 'behind' compared to asian children.  i think it's just from a cultural lack of support in this subject. :-/  shame too, because just about ALL the preschoolers are quite capable of taking this in, regardless of language ... that's my belief, anyway.

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