Autism and vaccines?

[nhockaday]

Very interesting. MSG gives my mom a migraine headache.

[chispa]

I had never heard of this.  I remember being pregnant and ordering chinese food without MSG, but only did it during pregnancy.  I didn't realize it appears in so many of our foods. 

My Dad get sleepy and a stuffy nose when he eats foods MSG.

[Chris1]

Free glutamate content of foods (mg per 100g) roquefort cheese 1280
parmesan cheese 1200
soy sauce 1090
walnuts 658
fresh tomato juice 260
grape juice 258
peas 200
mushrooms 180
broccoli 176
tomatoes 140
mushrooms 140
oysters 137
corn 130
potatoes 102
chicken 44
mackerel 36
beef 33
eggs 23
human milk 22

[nohayo]

the more I read about the controversy on vaccines the more i think its a bit too generalised....

what i mean is, I wouldn't not give ANY vaccines or give ALL vaccines at the same time...

I believe that really thorough research should be done by parents about each and every ingredient in the vaccines, whether it is still included in thevaccines, whether it is a problem on its own or combined with another ingredient...etc

That way, the risk vs. benefit of each and every vaccine is clear and the decision has even better concequences for your child...vaccines do protect from outbreaks at certain times and not all vaccines are evil just as much as not all of them are good

This is what I would personally do, when the time comes to take a decision about this.

[Chris1]

According to new research, cases of the developmental disability autism, which was controversially associated with the triple MMR immunisation, have levelled out since 1992. The new research suggests that the rise in cases since 1979 may not have been "real", but rather the result of better awareness, diagnosis and record keeping. They also suggest that some parental claims of a link between MMR and autism may have increased after the immunisation debate arose in 1997.

If MMR did cause autism, you would expect to see a sudden rise in cases when it was started and this isn't the case.

Deciding whether to have the vaccine can be tricky, but it's important to weigh up the health benefits and risks
for families and those affected by autism, my advice would be to discuss it further with your GP, practice nurse or health visitor and get more information. After discussion with our GP, all of our children had the triple MMR and experienced no side effects.

It's encouraging that diagnoses are being made earlier and that the condition has gained extra recognition over the years.

[DomanMom]

According to new research, cases of the developmental disability autism, which was controversially associated with the triple MMR immunisation, have levelled out since 1992. The new research suggests that the rise in cases since 1979 may not have been "real", but rather the result of better awareness, diagnosis and record keeping. They also suggest that some parental claims of a link between MMR and autism may have increased after the immunisation debate arose in 1997.

In the 80's 1 in every 10,000 children were diagnosed as autistic and today the rate is about 1 in every 150. Looking at those numbers it is impossible to say that it was just "undiagnosed" previously and doctors are just getting better at labeling something that has been around for a very long time. 1 in 150 is a very, very high number. And we must also consider that before the 1950's it was not even heard of. Now we see it everywhere, literally, and for a disease to go from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 150 in less than 20 years is considered an epidemic. Most medical doctors say that autism is "strictly genetic", however there is no such thing as a genetic epidemic.

[Chris1]

The following link might be of interest.  "That rates in recent surveys are substantially higher than 30 years ago merely reflects the adoption of a much broader concept of autism, a recognition of autism among normally intelligent subjects and an improved identification of persons with autism."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1170424.stm

More recent "MMR and autism link is dismissed"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article3308485.ece

"By protecting their own children, parents are also protecting other people’s children from the serious health risks associated with the illnesses of measles, mumps and rubella."

 
Chris
 

[DomanMom]

Well, I suppose it's just a matter of opinion. I find it a little bit hard to believe that in 1900 1 in every 150 children had autism but doctors just didn't know what to call it so the diagnoses were zero. Doctors started seeing this after the 1950's, and even as early as the 80's and 90's it was very rare, now it is everywhere. I'm sure everyone in this forum knows at least several parents with children diagnosed with autism, and that certainly wasn't the case twenty years ago. To me it seems a bit silly to just say that 100 years ago there were just as many kids with autism except the only difference was doctors didn't have a name for it yet. 1 in 150 is a big number, and more than a big number, it's a lot of kids, a lot of lives effected, which just wasn't the case until the past few years. Of course each to his own, that's just my observation on the epidemic.

There are a lot of arguments out there for and against vaccines. Doctors dismiss the "risks" as few and far apart and stick to the dogma that vaccines are perfectly safe, and that is the type of information that you will find in most mainstream sources. A big argument, as you have mentioned, is that we should just stick to the vaccines to prevent those horrible diseases from coming back, to make sure the whole population stays vaccinated to "protect" other people. But that's not enough for me. For instance, there have been no natural cases of polio in the USA for over 15 years. The only way that you can get it is from the vaccine. The flu vaccine often does not even work as the virus changes every year and the vaccine is basically just a guess at what it might look like this year. Many people who have been vaccinated against Hep B still get the disease, same goes for whopping coughing, and chicken pox. I can't even begin to describe the horror with the new vaccine Gardasil. Just google "Gardasil deaths" and you can see what I mean. And as was mentioned before, if you will look at the numbers, you will find that all of these diseases such as measles and small pox started diminishing (substantially) before the vaccine was introduced, so it's highly questionable about their effectiveness. But that's not what they teach you in medical school, where vaccines are the flawless, most genius discovery of medical history.

There's a lot of research to be done by concerned parents, and there's no easy answer either way. One can be sure that the fact that vaccines are a multi-billion dollar industry has a substantial effect on the whole debate, too. Each to his own - just be sure that you're informed to the best of your ability.

[nhockaday]

The thing is though, diseases are making a comeback in areas that children are not vaccinated. There was an outbreak of measles this year (around 131 cases when this was reported) and nearly all of them were children who were purposely not vaccinated. There have also been outbreaks of whooping cough in the last several years.

You can read my previous posts and see that I am not for nor against shots. I am stuck in the middle. Gabriel gets the absolute necessary shots spread out more than the normal schedule.

But you do have to realize that vaccines were created to eradicate these horrible diseases, and they have largely worked. Diseases can come back if large numbers of people don't get vaccinated.

Like you said Elizabeth, to each is own.

[DomanMom]

You're right about that, Nikki, and in that regard I'm somewhat stuck in the middle too, as even though the evidence is questionable about how strongly the vaccines helped in comparison to better nutrition and living conditions (as was before mentioned, because in nearly all cases of vaccine introduction you will see a 30-, 50-, or even 90-percent drop BEFORE the vaccine was introduced) it is true that vaccines have done something in many cases, especially in poorer nations with lower living conditions (sanitation and nutrition, etc.), or in other words, they're not completely useless. I just don't agree with the idea that vaccines are flawless, perfect, and harmless and we should give as many of them as possible at the youngest possible ages. Unfortunately that is the view of most medical doctors, and the current recommended vaccine schedule for tiny babies is in my opinion, irresponsible and dangerous.

If I were living in an area where these diseases were a real threat (because of poor living conditions and sanitation) I would consider vaccinations, however in my personal opinion, I believe the best line of defense is breast-feeding, good nutrition, and good sanitation because a baby who has had that will have a much higher rate of surviving a disease than the one who missed out on those things, even if the one who missed out is immunized (because getting a vaccine does not necessarily mean you are immune).

There's a lot about "Every child vaccinated for the safety of the community!" but if you can actually get the disease from the vaccine (like polio, the flu, etc.) then you're not doing the community much good.

The biggest thing for me about avoiding vaccines in the early years is that so often they don't even work and you can even get the disease from the vaccine. To me that's just not worth it, to be putting all that garbage in your body which is causing who knows what kind of permanent damage, and then not even necessarily being immune and actually risking contacting the disease from the vaccine. I don't know, there's a lot to it, but that's just what I have concluded about it but each person has to weigh the pros and the cons either way, and it's very much a personal decision as there's no easy answer.

[nhockaday]

I just don't agree with the idea that vaccines are flawless, perfect, and harmless and we should give as many of them as possible at the youngest possible ages. Unfortunately that is the view of most medical doctors, and the current recommended vaccine schedule for tiny babies is in my opinion, irresponsible and dangerous.

I definitely agree. I have opted out of several vaccines so far and had them space out the other ones. Every time Gabriel goes to the doctor, all the nurses get all confused looking at his chart since he hasn't followed the normal schedule. It seems like they are annoyed, but I'm sure they are used to it with all the debate over vaccines in recent years.

The dumbest shot that they try to make babies get (even before they go home from the hospital, and if not then, then doctors try to push it at every subsequent doctor appointment) is the hepatitis B vaccine. It's so useless. Most adults will never be exposed to Hep B unless they are in some sort of medical profession. Why would we possibly need to give it to a newborn baby?

[tatianna]

has anyone heard of immune milk?
this is something i am very interested in doing instead of vaccinations

[Chris1]

Tatianna,

 "The immunoglobulins found in bovine colostrum provide antimicrobial protection against microbial infections and confer a passive immunity to the newborn calf until its own immune system matures. The concentration in colostrum of specific antibodies against pathogens can be raised by immunizing cows with these pathogens or their antigens.

Immune milk products are preparations made of hyperimmune colostrum or antibodies enriched from it. These preparations can be used to protect against different enteric diseases in calves and suckling pigs. Also, some immune milk products containing specific antibodies against certain pathogens have been launched on the market."

Immune milk doesn't appear to be a viable alternative to vaccinations.

[tatianna]

 The cow's udder is, for want of a better comparison, biochemical laboratory. Researchers discovered that injecting a pregnant cow's udder with pathogens or allergens caused the manufacture of antibodies to those substances which were then expressed in her colostrum, creating what's known as immune milk or hyperimmune bovine colostrum.

 Scientists eventually injected blood from a patient into a cow's teat and soon discovered antibodies to that patient's ailment in the resulting colostrum. Pioneer virologist Albert Sabin ( 1906-1993) is said to have discovered anti-polio antibodies in cow's colostrum which eventually led to his oral polio vaccine.

Ultimately, the discovery that cows could manufacture customized antibodies was patented ( U.S. Patent #3,376,198). Why affordable immune milk is unavailable in the United States today is a mystery.

As far as I can tell, the creation and use of immune milk in the United States is still illegal, at least for humans. In other countries, like China, for instance, millions enjoy its benefits. For agricultural use in America, however, the bovine-derived vaccine market is booming.

 We have the technology to make an oral vaccine that is completely safe and free of side effects, that is so inexpensive to manufacture it could be available to all, that jump starts the immune system and protects against bacteria, viruses, protozoans, fungi and allergens, and that is backed up by over 4,000 studies attesting to its safety and efficacy.

you can read more about it at this website
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_/ai_76445672 - 51k -

my question is has any ever try it?
and do you know how to get it?

[DomanMom]

That's really interesting, Tatianna, I don't believe I've ever heard of that. My biggest guess is that the reason it isn't available in the United States is because it's too easy and inexpensive. The vaccine industry would go bankrupt! And we can't have any of that.

It's sad that our medical establishment is like that, but it's just the truth. Same thing for natural cancer cures. You don't ever hear about them, even though there's tons of studies that show many things that truly work in getting rid of cancer, because the medical establishment is making trillions off of people dying from cancer, selling them things like radiation that don't even work, but it sure is a big business! They work hard making sure you never hear about natural cures because they would lose business.

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