Screaming 9 month old - Help!

[Joha]

My daughter is now 9 and a half months old. She used to be the happiest, more loving and friendly baby. In the last week that has changed. Now she screams every time she doesn’t get things her way. She cries like she is being tortured! It is like she could break crystal with her screaming. I have been very persistent and “no” is “no” so if I take something away and she is screaming she doesn’t get it back. I look her right into her eyes and say several times “you don’t need to scream” and if needed I explain to her what is going on. I have read you can’t really discipline babies at this age, but just be consistent. I really need to figure out what to do and have her understand that it is not ok to scream that way. Has anybody experience this? Any suggestions? 

[trinity papa]

experienced that .... i just slapped her ..... not too hard of course ..... she herself doesn't know why she screams .... if you give in she will scream every now and then to get her way once she realise screaming gets her attention or somethings ..... and then you have a screamer for life .....

in one of those parenting books ...... it says slap her, get her attention, she will look at you and wondering what just happened .... you got her attention and then you tell her .... you don't get this unless you say please ..... or you try to express what she is trying to say ..... and she will look at you and feels that you understand or is trying to understand her .....

soon enough my kid would say please instead of screaming ..... but it takes persistency ..... such that subsequently when she screams and you raise your hand she knows she is going to get a slap ..... automatically she says please ..... now she says please whenever she needs or wants something .... and people feels you have a very polite child ... it starts young once they show such behaviour ....

one of the books simply says ... babies and toddler are like little caveman ..... the only way they know how to get attention is by screaming and demanding ....... if you let them have their way .... when do you stop?? if they do it as 2 why not 3 why not 4 and on ..... and then you will have an uncontrollable undisciplined child ..... 

this is assuming all other steps are taken ..... like if she is feeling well, if she is hungry, if she is hungry and in pain she will have to cry and scream ......, there is no other ways of telling you, also to check she is having proper diet not can, not instant, not those quick food overdoesed with addictives ..... no sugary stuff as well ..... once those are ruled out ..... then discipline can come in and you know for sure you are correcting negative behaviour .....

under 1 or 2 some kids only understand slapping not reasoning, if it helps save his life, if it stops you from going mad, then it should be applied with the right force ..... sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind ...... and also not to apply it on every single matters but only on the serious enough stuff ..... i think initially i did it once or twice a week when it was really bad and no matter of trying to stop negative behaviour works ...... now she throws tantrums no more than 5-10 mins a day sometimes none at all ..... and her tantrums are crying and screaming for 1 min because she is fustrated she is not able to solve puzzles or put things into a bag due to arrangements etc .... adults also suffer those types of fustrations sometimes ...... so understanding such .... we can show her how to solve it and no need to cry and scream and be fustrated .....

some people would say its wrong some would say it slows the kid and dumb them ...... actually i think its the reverse, you spend less time trying to handle the child, more time having fun and teaching then trying to pacify a child's ever changing demand which changes every minute every time ...... also it teaches them to be more independent, but you have to be consistent ....

some parents says do it with love ..... problem is what exactly is that?? some confused pampering with love ...... and the child grows up spoilt, so yeah its a tough job .......

[Joha]

trinity papa,

Thanks for your reply. I have always said that if it gets to a point I need to give her a soft spank I will, I just haven't reached that point. Slapping is not one of my options, since my dad used to do it and it's not something I want to pass along.

Regarding her diet, I make all her food from scratch and try to get everything organic. She is a good eater so can't think her tantrums have to do with her diet. She only has two teeth, so we think she may be teething, but can see any teeth coming 

I'm still a bit confused...

[nhockaday]

Don't worry, it's just a stage. Gabriel is going through a similar one right now, and he has before too, I think just a little older than Valerie. He is suddenly getting into things that he knows are off-limits. Then when I tell him not to do it, or take something away from him, he starts a fake cry or high-pitched squeal. He has been very sensitive and grumpy the last few days, and whines about everything.
I think the best thing to do is just ignore it. Don't give any kind of reaction. After a while, she will see that not only is she not getting what she wants, but she isn't getting any response from you either. Some babies like to test their limits, and some like negative attention. The exception would be in public, of course. Try it and see if it starts working.
Another thing to try would be distraction. If she is doing something wrong or you need to take something from her, quickly give her something appropriate to play with. Make it seem like the best thing ever so she forgets about what she was doing a few seconds before. Like if she pulls a can off the shelf at the grocery store, you can reach in your cart and get a bag of pasta. Say, "wow, look at the bag of pasta! Isn't it cool! Look, you can make noise with it, and you can shake it. Do you want to hold the pasta?" Chances are, she will forget everything and want what mommy is making a big stink about. You can even keep some toys or books that she has rarely seen and pull them out when she is on the brink of a meltdown. Just make sure to rotate them out once she has been distracted with them.

I know it's hard, especially when you used to have a pleasant baby, but give it time and a little patience. She'll get over it. It's just another joy of parenthood! Wait until the terrible 2's and 3's!

[Joha]

Thank you for your reply. It definetly gave me a little bit of hope  I'll try to ignore her and not say anything when she is screaming to see how that goes. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!

[trinity papa]

oh yes teething ...... that could be a terrible time for the little one ..... teething ... they can get really fussy and agitated easily ... soft and swollen gums .... knowing that ..... it makes a difference ..... if she is screaming and fussy get a teether one of those water based type that you can put in the fridge after sterilization .... when she starts to get fussy and screaming give her one of those ..... you will probably need at least 2 ...3 would be better ....

cold is best too ... not freezer type of course ......

my girl teethed late around 10 mths plus ..... once we get round to it we give her the teether whenever she gets fussy .... like i said you have to find out whats wrong to solve the problem ..... at 9 mths 2 teeths .... its kind of like my girl .... she is a late teether ..... it'll only get better after her teeth comes out at least 8 i think ....

but of course if it fails then you have to find what other problems there are .....

if you try ignoring and she screams even louder or very persistent in screaming ..... its got to be something ..... but anyway i am sure you know what to do ..... it looks like you have your base covered .....

i would think its got to do with teething .... get extra .... and keep them cold ... she'll probbaly use for 5-10 mins .... before asking for another cold one ... that time it was really hectic ..... we really didn't know what was going on, that she needs so many, alot of process of elimination and detective work ..... because sometimes you won't think she needs 2 teethers or more in a row ....

[Isabeau]

Hi!
This is ABSOLUTELY normal, developmentally, for a 9 month old.  Probably just suddenly aware of what she wants, and because she now KNOWS what she wants, but can't express it to you, she's frustrated!  Just imagine suddenly being very conscious and aware of your surroundings, seeing something that you want, only to have it grabbed away from you.  You desperately WANT to tell someone what you feel, only you don't have any way to do so other than to cry.  So you do.  But they don't understand, and/or don't listen to your request (of course babies don't understand that you've taken something away because it's not safe, or whatever).  You're just going to cry LOUDER and HARDER to try to get them to understand. 

Rather than slapping your child, there are definitely more gentle ways to deal.  A couple of suggestions -- distraction and redirection are absolute gems for little ones.  Although she wanted something desperately, she is still young and easily distracted.  If you have to take something away, give her something else, safe, in return.  Or give her a couple of options to choose from that are safe -- allow her to start developing her independence and decision making abilities.  Rather than hearing a NO yelled at her with no alternative provided, you can use it as a teaching/developmental moment.

Also, you could try baby sign language. She's definitely old enough to be signing. I did with my first son (and am now starting with the second -- 9 months old too and knows about three signs.).  Kids can't verbalize yet, at this age, but that doesn't mean that they can't communicate.  They know what they want, and are frustrated that they can't tell you -- you just need to give them the tools to communicate it to you.  Get a book out of the library, or buy a good book on baby sign language -- teach them a few signs.  Suddenly they no longer need to scream -- they can actually TELL you -- "want" "please" "eat" or "drink".  At least half of their frustration is not being able to communicate and suddenly the need to cry disappears if you can just say it instead of scream it.  It doesn't mean that they always GET what they asked for -- of course they don't.  And if you're worried that it will stunt their language development, there seems to be no need.  Kids who do sign, studies say, are often advanced in their speech development because they were able to communicate earlier and have made the necessary associations.  My three year old was an avid signer and he speaks very well!  Teaching please was a great sign, like someone else suggested. They learn pretty fast when they want something that screaming doesn't work, but saying please might...

But either way, yup, don't worry, it IS normal for this age.   Lovely as it sounds.

[trinity papa]

Joha is a old timer here having posted more than 650 .........

It's just sometimes when the time comes ...... we forgot what we have read or known earlier due to hectic schedule etc ..... and we can't really pin point it ..... so its easier to ask then refer back tonnes of info .....

on a personal note:

i notice quite a lot of toddlers ...... during our playgroup session ..... this toddlers just snatch toys that they want ... including pushing and shoving other babies to get at what they want ...... this is very bad ... if not stopped early they continue with such behaviour thru to childhood and even adulthood ......

Of course parents would say hey this is normal .... they are kids they are independent and are expressing what they want ...... personally ... yes its true .... but half way only ..... yes a want ... but you don't have to snatch and push .... the wants over-ride their civil sense of being a human .... animals do that too you know ..... snatching and such .... are we to say we allow our kids to be like animals??

There are other cons too
1) If they were to snatch and push and other babies gets injured in the process ..... i would propose that the failure of the parent to teach their kids proper behaviour at home..... whose own child hurts or harm other child intentionally or accidentally .... due to their animalistic behaviour propogated by the parents .... pay for all medical fees ... including MRI scan, hospital fees etc this can cost thousands of US$ ..... otherwise such parents just shrug their shoulders and take their kid and run .....  its so irresponsible, i have seen one too many to feel disgusted by such parenting behaviour .....

2) Such kids if their behaviour does not change will face problems in adulthood ..... what they see other people have they want ..... they either get it from their parents who sees nothing wrong with satisfying their wants .... or they work hard to get it ... sounds capitalist ..... but whta if they are still studying and parents can't afford it?? stealing?? or if they are working but the things and lifestyle they want are beyond their budget ?? go on crediit until they are declared bankrupt ?? I see alot of people young executives unable to control their spending ... with unlimited wants .... ending up broke .... no family, no flat, no career, broken ...... but yet still unable to control their urges ......

hence we start training early .... otherwise when do you start .... when they understood their wants can only be filled by demanding, it become non stop ....... 

 

[Isabeau]

yup, I'm not disagreeing that giving a child everything they want, whenever they want is a recipe for disaster.  Absolutely.  At the same time, however there's really no 1 size fits all solution to any parenting problem -- the same discipline tactic will have two VERY different effects/responses from a child, depending on the culture in which they come from.  One parent from a certain culture will have a very positive result with one tactic while in another culture the same strategy will have the exact opposite impact on the child.

Take spanking/slapping as an example, since it came up earlier.  Research shows that in some cultures spanking or slapping children has the actual impact of causing the spanked child, in turn, to behave more aggressively and violently towards other children.  Slapping or spanking them more, in that case, will only have the opposite of the desired affect.  It will only actually cause them to become more and increasingly aggressive. 

HOWEVER, in other cultures the same experiment showed that spanking or slapping actually does have the desired affect of curbing aggressive behavior and causing children to be more submissive and compliant. 

My point -- the efficacy of the particular response depends on the culture in which it is being imposed, and, interestingly, how common that type of discipline is in that particular culture. 

Fascinating stuff, isn't it? 

[trinity papa]

Yes of course abosolutely agreee with you Isabeau ....

I started slapping or spanking when my girl was like 9-10 mth ... if you could call it that .... its more like a little tab on the cheek ..... but sometimes alittle harder to get the right reponse .... often people just spank becaus ethey got fed up and not because it is needed ..... it sometimes really depend on the ability of the parent to know when it is needed and when it should not be given ...... i come from a very disciplined family ..... and we tend to nib the problems in the butt befor eit gets worst ..... i would be happy to say my child doesn't snatch toys nor tear up books because we catch it early .... it may last for 1-2 mths but after a while she gets the signal that its wrong ..... we'don't confuse her with slapping all the time ... if say we are teaching her not to snatch and learn how to wait ..... we will only slap when she fails to wait and is demanding and screaming or is snatching.... we will ignore other wrong stuff like tearing book etc for the time being ...... once we have succesfully trained her in waiting we move on to tearing books etc ..... this way she learns whats right and what's wrong ..... and knows what is not allowed ... for the book it can be temporarily solved by giving her hard book ...or cardboard type pages ..... and then once patience is taught we move on to the next subject .....

We do most of the training at home ..... that's why when we bring her out alot of parents praised her for being very well behave ..... and able to listen to instructions ..... if only they know the effort needed in training her ......

But of course like you say ... no one method work for all child even for siblings ...... so of course the soft approach first, before resorting to the hard tactics .....  sad to say some parents only use one method ... due to poor knowledge and sheer laziness ..... hence social workers recommend only one method ... just love the child and hope they grow out of it ... its better than beating your child senseless ..... which i disagree with too .....

[PY]

Yes of course abosolutely agreee with you Isabeau ....

I started slapping or spanking when my girl was like 9-10 mth ... if you could call it that .... its more like a little tab on the cheek ..... but sometimes alittle harder to get the right reponse .... often people just spank becaus ethey got fed up and not because it is needed ..... it sometimes really depend on the ability of the parent to know when it is needed and when it should not be given

Hi joha,
 I feel weird reading all the responses you got from this topic. I can't imaging spanking  or slaping my 9 months old!!IT SEEMS WEIRD TO ME. I have never had the necesity to get to that point with my 19 months old daughter, I always thought when I get to that point is because I lost the control of the situation.
Let's see;
First ,Exactly a 9 months old baby can't have an idea of good or bad yet, because her memory is really short, that is why you have to repeat over and over what is no and yes..until they grow and remember how to behave.
Second, somebody say it is better to get solve the problem from the begining otherways in the future became worst, I agree with part of that but you really think spanking your infant will solve the problem?? I don't think so...that is terrible. I can't imaging that!! There is two things you can create a baby who only listen when you spank because he or she will experience pain and it is not a positive way to raise an infant in armony and make her feel secure.
Third, a baby can't mesure the consequences of his/her acts of course, you need to guide them and understand their needs.
Fourth, If an infant is crying there is always a reason to be, hungry, boreness,frustration,dirty diaper,maybe is tired or is sick... which I think your baby will get sick that is why she is crying and asking for help or just asking for some mommy attention, maybe she will get a cold, or she could be teething and crying is the only way she can comunicate her feelings.

You imaging if she is sick and she is crying but you don't understand that and start spanking her???? will that be nice? how your baby will feel? Probably  after 5 minutes of spanking she will forget about it and give you a big smile(because short memory) but if you start doing it over and over evrytime she cries she will became unprotected and less confident with you.

This is me personal opinion...everybody has the right to raise their kids on the best way they want or think is best. Since I have a degree on Education I can tell you my experiences with infants,toddlers,preschoolers and older kids. My 19 months old never got a spank,time out or slap!! She is really active and I am working on the NO ..NO..don't climb here...don't touch that...because she can hurt hemself doing it, it is hard to make her understand that, but will I spank because she is exploring and learning???NOOOOOO.....or maybe put her in a caige...or  take her to the "training" .....no ways. I just tell her you can get hurt I love you and I don't want you to get hurt.

Maybe when she get older I don't denied the Spanking option but now I just let her learn,play,explore...just being a kid...when she grows she will have to deal with an ugly world out there for now I just let her be a kid.

Besides all that THE signing thing help me a lot to understan her totally 100% better...I have to say I NEVER had experienced with her frustration of comunication thanks to signing...Joha keep it up and help your baby to sign you will be thankful later on., it is being so easy to deal with her ,no complains,since she was a baby really really easy, I feel really sorry for parents who have to  spank,slap or put your infant in time out, that shoul be ilegal.

Good luck and be patient tomorrow will be a better day.

P.D. You know what makes my day  happy, when my baby signs I LOVE you mommy, even if she can't say it but she can sign it. Makes me cry. 

[PY]

By the way..my 19 months old says please,thank you, give me,i love you,nice,kiss, i am sorry, she can say it in spanish and english and ASL too....without spanking or slaping her.

[trinity papa]

Like i say its a degree ...... no one solution for everything .... some kids are very sensible some kids are just pure devilish .... if you read my previous post on discipline .... we saw parents who could not even control their kids .... their kids are going around smashing things and kicking other babies ..... and the parents feel exactly like you ... oh they are experimenting how far this society is willing to accept their behaviour other than a NO. What is a NO to a baby ... just another word without meaning or consequences......

How would you feel if a unruly toddler kicks your beloved baby? And the parents says NO. Did not shout, did not slap the kid, did not pull him away or time out ... but just says NO, and the child looks at the parent and kicks your child again .... and you can't do anything about it?? If you shout at the kid you are wrong, you can only pull your child away from the bully...... that is assuming you are there ..... to the bully's parents he is just experimenting ...

Some kids are good some are bad .... the impulsive behaviour of the bad ones needs to be controlled before they abuse your baby or any other babies.... if not corrected such kids will grow up filling up prisons ..... taking the case of UK where kids under 10 stones a toddler and leave his body on the rail track .... neve imagine a kid would do that ... their excuse they were experimenting ....

anyway like i say again, do not think spanking is spanking for the sake of spanking per se ..... its not that hard, you have to control yourselve, you have to have proper discipline in order to discipline the young. (Ps its the last resort, jesus so many people think its the first thing to do .... those are for drunks, and addicts and half wit parents ..... which would come under abuse which i am against)

Giving you examples how my child behave now, in fact i haven't given her a slap or spank for more than once a mth now.
.... anyway in right mind classes where the teachers do the flashing ... she fully concentrates, while another mother was busy struggling with her child .... and all so do was say no .... it also happened in other classes and playgroups ... and my child is younger than all other toddlers by 2-6 mths... her respond is much more mature and was able to get the right answers too .... like all toddlers she likes to run around and climb things ... i set the stage and room for her to do that safely ....  but in a crowded environment ... where accidents are very likely to happen .... and if she shows a tendency to run or play ... i would say No running, stand, wait here ..... and she would do just that .... because she knows i mean business ... and she knows its for her own safety ... (there is a time for discipline and there is a time for experimenting, lazy parenting skills wouldn't bother, they just take the opportunity to let their kids go wild..... this often cause a lot of conflicts for parents and for those who don't understand like singles etc, sure the kid is innocent he is just being a monkey but it irritates some and its the parents fault for the child's poor discipline period. Parents should understand other people's dislike for unruly child just as parents once did when they were single or young, so you can't just push the blame on others for not understanding when its the parents who does not understand. Like i said where ever we go our child just recieves praises and often gets invited back.)

but it takes training .... and some heart aches too, its better she gets a few slap from us, then to have some one accidentally kicks her because they could not see her .... its the lesser of 2 devils ..... but of course we have lots of hugs and kisses too ..... everynight she calls for me to read to her and put her to sleep ..... but not the mother ... even though i am the disciplinarian .... so it depends on how to control the situation ....

as for the 9-10 mths slapping, its to teach her not to scream or snatch or bite or throw food or other bad behaviour .... its not a big hard slap but a gentle tab on the cheek ... she will feel like what's going on  .... and then you look into their eyes and sternly says such behaviour is not good .... be consistent and they will stop .... if you say no .... what does that mean .... its like a laugh or a nod or a ok ... it has no meaning ... they will do it a few more times to get your same NO respond .... yup my girl doesn't tear books or throw food or pull mummy's hair or bite while breast feeding ... nor does she spit out water or splashing things around .... like i said you have to give her a safe environment to do it to experiment, and only during that time they can do it, outside of that its a no no .... or there will be consequences .... again like i said ruling out all probabilities and possibilities .... which depends on the parents intelligence again ..... (its like do you give the baby a walker, its advantages if you understand and know how to control, however if your not intelligent enough its best not to do so....)

Its all a matter of degree and what you deem as appropriate parenting and discipline .... to some a big bully is ok by their parents (they give but don't teach nor discipline they let society handle it), to others a very disciplined caring individual (so that they may give to the world then take), and yet to some a happy go lucky kid without a single care for the world (where the world is their oyster and its there to serve them) ...

[trinity papa]

By the way..my 19 months old says please,thank you, give me,i love you,nice,kiss, i am sorry, she can say it in spanish and english and ASL too....without spanking or slaping her.

so can mine but in english, chinese, japanese and ASL.... but mine doesn't snatch things nor push babies nor scream, she waits when told to and repeats wait with me .... she has self control and patience... and is able to sit thru 2 hours of classes in english and chinese .... without getting bored .... she likes to build up castles with bricks .. she doesn't smash things nor throw food or things nor does she pull things or tear papers ... basically she is not destructive .... and understands and follows instructions ... she is also creative ... she likes crayon drawings and tells us its a watermelon or a banana .... she likes singing into her microphone and dancing to tunes .... she smiles and throw flying kisses and when class ends she give the teacher a hug and a kiss ... she uses adult toilets and pee when we say wee wee .... she is an excellent swimmer ... (well kicking and dunking her head into water and back float), she feeds herself with a spoon, and she understand 4 language, from english to chinese cantonese and mandarin, and japanese.... she does 5-step maths equations and just finish learning her ABCs to XYZs. Oh nearly forgot she does her do re mis too .... she likes playing on the piano .... fingering not slamming down with her hand ....

and we do summersalts on the mattress, and monkey bars on my thumb, and we read 3 different language books everyday ...

[trinity papa]

I have to clarify if you don't know how... don't slap its not for the average parenting style .... there are alot of things to know and understand and alot of self control, otherwise there maybe adverse consequences

hence why social groups only advocate love and not discipline .... its so that lower intelligent group would not abuse it ... ontop of sounding morally and socially right

Personally i don't want people to think slapping is right and going about slapping their kids .....

PS if you teach your child 1 you show him a red dot, when you teach him no ..... what do you show him ?? hahaha

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