Time-out Guidelines for Parents

[waterdreamer]

And we do what when our child refuses to go to time out? In the hockey analogy, what does the referee do if the player refuses to get off the ice, continues to play hockey, ignores the referee, shouts at the referee or whacks the referee with the hockey stick?
thanks.

If you show your child how to listen now, you should not have these problems hen they are older. When my son was 3 if he refused to go to timeout he lost a privilige, and he still had to go to timeout. If he came out I would go without saying too much a put him back. It was a processes, I mean the first time I think he came out of timeout 35 times. But as soon as he for his short period of time(2mins) he was allowed out. Then he was not allowed to watch tv that night. The next time he needed timeout, and he didn't want to go I reminded him how last time he lost tv too because he would not sit. LOL he lost TV a few times, buit the second time he only came out of time out 20 times, then the next time 10. Then he'd go and they would not lose TV time. Now he is 4 almost 5 and we RARELY use time out. Because when I see him getting out of control I suggest, may its time for a time out. Usually the behavior stops. It was so hard, but was what we needed to do, and it worked for our family
Forgive me for this option, but I noticed alot working in a pediatric office, we had the most problems with the children whos parents were more concerned with being there childs friend then there parent. What is your child going to do when they are in preschool and its time to clean up? If they start preschool when they are 3 or 4 and you haven't used the first few years teaching your child that sometimes they have to do somethings they may not like, who is going to suffer. Not you, not even the teacher really, the child will because they will be so confused. Even if you don't believe in timeout, just follow through with what you say. Ideal threats are so useless.

[wenjonggal]

mmm. well, I am not so sure he is in a state of even hearing about losing privileges when told to go in a time out... it seems to become less about whatever he has done, or what he may lose, and all a battle about not going into the time out... and yes, not saying anything and putting him back into time out, I can do that. Or try to. And get into a total physical struggle with him where I cannot even let him go, let alone put him back in and count how many times I have done it. And he is already 4 going on 5. And he was adopted at age 2, so advice about "starting in the first couple of years" is a bit pointless.

I guess I can continue to physically struggle with him. It seems easier to simply deny the tv privileges than to fight to get him to sit down some place AND still have to deny tv privileges on top of it. And yes, we do discuss the behaviour when he is calmed down, and discuss losing the tv privileges because of the original behaviour (not losing tv privileges for not sitting down, which in itself is supposed to be losing the privilege of interacting because of the original behaviour)... I have just mostly decided to skip the "time out" part. It becomes such a struggle it seems totally counterproductive, and we totally lose sight of what the original problem was (throwing sand, refusing to leave the park etc)

I, on the other hand, give myself time out's when I need to. To calm down and plan next plan of action. But I was always curious about how exactly to put a kid in timeout who just physically and emotionally refuses to go into the time out.

[Twinergy]

I have intended on responding to this thread for awhile, but have been sick.  First of all I want to say that parenting is a tough job I respect other parents’ decision to use time outs as a means of discipline.  I don’t judge my friends for using them and I don’t judge anyone here.  But there are further limitations of time outs that haven’t been brought up and I feel people should be able to see the other side to make an informed decision.  Again I intend no disrespect or criticism, I’m just informing.

 As for time outs an increasing number of experts, psychologists, are dismissing external stimuli, rewards and punishments, as effective means of shaping behavior.  Although they can achieve the desired effect in the short term, new studies are finding that they have undesired long term side effects.  Specifically external stimuli must remain to continue their motivation; the children raised with excessive rewards and punishments are less likely to “behave” when there is nobody around to give them a pat on the head or enforce the rules.  It has been difficult to find an article against using time outs that doesn’t have the guilt trip side effect.  I recently found this article, and I think it respectfully explains the Disadvantages of Time-Out without implying any blame.   For further reading and interesting book is Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn.  It cites many, possible hundreds, of different studies to back up his position and is fascinating to read for all the different studies.  But if you do read it, be forewarned that he also gives his opinions along with a heavy dose of guilt trip so just ignore that part.  

[Twinergy]

I would also like to recommend a couple related threads for further reading.
20 alternatives to punishments
The Perils of Praise

[Twinergy]

For those who decide to use time outs, I have learned of some further guidelines that I would like to share.  I have a friend, and educator with a psychology degree, who is a advocate of time outs when used properly.  I would like to share her advice.   
1.   Start behaviors are those you want to encourage while stop behaviors are those you want to discourage.  Discipline/ consequences are only effective at shaping the stop behaviors.  Use encouragements with start behaviors.
2.   Limit targeted behaviors to never more than 5 at a time until the behavior is learned.
3.   Think about the reason behind the behavior, make sure their needs are being met.
4.   Gives warnings: 2 warnings then consequence on the third offence gives them a chance to control their behavior themselves.  She counts 3-2 the 1 and consequence.  Be consistent, no counting 1 and a half etc.
5.   Don’t start time outs before age 3
That is all I can remember now, I will add more if I think of them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
ETA.
6. Kids tend to experiment with new behaviors in 3 week cycles

[waterdreamer]

My childs aba consultant says that if you use counting your training the child that they can get away with the behavior till just before you reach the number ex 3

[waterdreamer]

I'm also confused why people would ask for advice on time out when they already decided not to use it?
Its up to each parent to decide what works for each child. If someone is going to ask my option, I'm going to share it. I mean no disrespect, but I will not just say what others want to hear.
Best of luck this is the last I will come to this topic because everyone has there own ways and feels strongly about it which is great. So I'm going to stick to what works best for my son and I hope everyone finds there own way. Its trial and error

[wenjonggal]

I'm also confused why people would ask for advice on time out when they already decided not to use it?

Is this directed at me? I said "mostly decided", and that was due to it not working... which is of course EXACTLY why I would ask for advice. If you mostly decided never to parallel park, as you have a heck of a time doing it without causing a fender bender, that seems EXACTLY the reason to ask for advice on however to parallel park with success. Esp when others seem to have such success and ease doing it.

Anyways it is interesting that a child who has learned not to be in an authoritarian relationship with the parent would refuse to go to their room or sit in a chair etc... this probably explains in large part why I don't have this success: We do more discussing about why to do things, what the results of doing or not doing something (causing pain, hurting others' feelings etc), and less "because mommy said so"... so I guess if I go into "because mommy said so" mode, he rejects it. Anyways, I am still listening to all sides. But thanks, please don't judge others who don't have this instant "touch" of getting their kid to quietly and compliantly acquiesce to go into time out, and then ask for advice.

[wenjonggal]

Twinergy, thank-you, that link on The Disadvantages of Time-Out by Aletha Solter, PhD was excellent. http://www.awareparenting.com/timeout.htm

It expresses some of the misgivings I have about time outs (though I admit I always felt like a failure as a parent for not being able to properly enforce them... or rather I could when he was 2 yrs old but not 4) and some of the other "nonviolent" discipline that relies on emotional and social manipulation and consequences instead of physical consequences. Having a father that used a lot of emotional pressure, I always found that to be more damaging and long lasting than a whack (not advocating whacks, but at least, like a parking ticket, they were a limited known quantity, quickly administered and quickly gotten over).

Lots of food for thought. And I'll look into the book you recommend.
thankyou

[aangeles]

how do you know when your child is cognitively advanced enough to understand what a time out is?  I know it works well with older children (eg 4 yo) ... thanks!

In the 2 months or so that we started using time-outs (starting when my daughter turned 20 months old), we have had to use it only a few times. But she understands what a time out is and why she gets one. And I know this, because soon after starting time-outs, she was playing with her dad in the bathtub one time, and her dad told her, "Don't drink the water." Of course, being a toddler, she promptly cupped some water in her hands and pretended to drink it. Before my husband could react however, she stood up, went to the end of the tub, sat herself on the step, and said, "Ella tine-out." Now, of course, we NEVER put her in time-out for things that are as minor as this, but I only tell this incident to show that, yes, in my daughter's case, she understands full well what it means.

Also, an article in one of the posted links above mentioned that children may be emotionally harmed by time-out because they may come to view this sort of isolation as abandonment and loss of love. And that even when parents are careful to provide reassurances of their love, it simply would not register with the child. That was also one of my bigger concerns even as I was using time-outs. I was worried that the emotional effect would be more harmful and long-lasting than a quick whack to the bottom (which is what my siblings and I grew up with with no lasting ill-effects.) However, one time I overheard this babyish conversation going on between my dd and her beloved stuffed alligator and stuffed hippo. Apparently, alligator had bitten hippo and so Ella picked alligator up, shook her index finger at it, and said, "No, no, no...Listen! No biting!...Be nice, A-dator. No biting. A-dator tine-out!" and she proceeded to put alligator on one side of the bed away from her and hippo. After a few minutes, she went back to pick up alligator and said, "I love you, A-dator!" Then, holding one of the alligator's legs, she rubbed it on the alligator's belly (signing sorry) while saying, "A-dator sowee, hippo."

Even though this incident was just a toddler pretend-playing, it was really eye-opening to me because it gave me a lot of insight on how my dd's little brain works. Somehow, she understands that certain actions have certain consequences and that putting someone in time-out doesn't mean you don't love them anymore. Of course, we don't rely solely on time-outs to achieve good behavior. We also have a regular routine for her in place and try to stick to it as much as possible so that she knows what's coming next and what's expected of her. We do a lot of talking and explaining to her of why we do certain things and why not others, etc, etc. I would say that time-outs probably comprise <20% of what we do to discipline her. To be honest, I am just glad that it is working because I wouldn't know what to do otherwise. Taking away treats and privileges is not really an option at this point since we don't let her watch TV anyway, she doesn't have cookies or candy, etc.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Just wanted to share our experience. I know that each of us on this forum would not even be here if it were not for loving our children and really wanting what's best for them.

[Joha]

Just my personal experience: My daughter is going to be 18 months in a week and a friend. About two weeks ago we started doing time outs for just one minute. My daughter definitely know what means going to time out. We just tell her twice not to do something, that second time I'll tell her"if you do it again you are going to time-out" and she says "no and that is the end of the story. Sometimes she does it anyways and even though I wish she hadn't so I would have to get up, I always do what I told her I was going to do. So as of now it is working and I love it does as angeles said I wouldn't know what else to do.

[Twinergy]

Hi McDume,
...
My second disagreement with your post is that I don’t think parents who use punitive time-outs are lazy and impatient.  I think it is more an issue of information.  Most of us were raised under the paradigm that children must be punished in order to behave, and most popular parenting books still endorse this view.  Yet there are so many other tools available that don’t involve punishments but still teach a lesson. 
...

I wanted to explain this statement in more detail.  Many people are of the opinion that when it comes to discipline there are two options: use punishments or the child will be an undisciplined brat.  I think this is because few people have actually seen the third option and how well it works.  The book I mentioned Becoming the Parent You Want to Be (also discussed in more detail in the 20 alternatives to punishments thread) outlines methods that are absolutely brilliant.  They emphasize allowing the child to experience natural consequences (of course taking safety into account) while the parent acts as a facilitator to help them see the situation clearly, consider other’s feelings and resolve their own problems.  Their approach takes parent / child communication to a whole new level.  It is based on Dr Marshall Rosenberg’s Nonviolent Communication process; these are the exact same methods often used in negotiating peace treaties around the globe.  I really can not say enough good things about this book.

[Twinergy]

Twinergy, thank-you, that link on The Disadvantages of Time-Out by Aletha Solter, PhD was excellent. http://www.awareparenting.com/timeout.htm

It expresses some of the misgivings I have about time outs (though I admit I always felt like a failure as a parent for not being able to properly enforce them... or rather I could when he was 2 yrs old but not 4) and some of the other "nonviolent" discipline that relies on emotional and social manipulation and consequences instead of physical consequences. Having a father that used a lot of emotional pressure, I always found that to be more damaging and long lasting than a whack (not advocating whacks, but at least, like a parking ticket, they were a limited known quantity, quickly administered and quickly gotten over).

Lots of food for thought. And I'll look into the book you recommend.
thankyou

Wenjonggal ,
I think it is really all about finding something that works for your family.  I really hope you can find something that resonates with both you and your son. I also sent you a PM with some reading suggestions for you, if you haven’t received it let me know.   I would really like to hear about any updates on your situation.  Also, please feel free to ask questions about any specific issues you and your son are struggling with.  Sometimes it takes someone far away from the situation to see things clearly. 

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