Why would my neighbours kid behave like this?

[nic31600]

New neighbours have recently moved in. The 2 parents and 4 children aged 17, 15, 9, 8 with 3 boys and 1 girl with the girl being the youngest. The father works in the same company as my husband and since they were new to the area, my husband thought he'd make efforts for the family to feel welcomed and comfortable in the new City. They have been here for nearly 2 months now. I told him I prefer not to get too involved with them for many reasons especially if things were to turn sour it would be difficult since they work together (though not in the same department nor do they see each other often at work) but he didn't listen to me. I thought they were all really nice but I have some concerns on how to handle a problem that has come up. I have issues with the girl.

-She lies to me in my home and I catch her lying

-She makes herself welcome in our home ALL DAY and invites herself over without asking.

-The girl opened up the playdoh that was still in the plastic and I had kept on a high shelf in my office with the door closed since I never expected her to go in there so that she wouldn't find it and took it to another room and opened it to go and play with it and I was NOT happy

--My husband caught the girl going through our cupboards and all the rooms, especially our bedroom

-They have taught my daughter how to open the balcony doors and now she is always trying to escape every time she sees them so I always have to keep the shutters down (In my OWN home!)

-The two youngest were playing with my daughters playdoh and mixed ALL the 6 playdoh colours. when I told her she is not allowed to play with her playdoh anymore for mixing the colours, she blamed my daughter although I was supervising them the whole time and lied to her mother about it

-I have safety gates blocking the stairs since it's a 2 story house. My daughter can't open them yet nor climb over them hence why they are there. I tell them they aren't allowed to play upstairs since the girl wrecks havoc in my daughters room and is a pest. She repeatedly disrespects me by whispering in my daughters ear to let her play in her room. I see that she goes to open the safety gate and I say NO! So she goes back to the living room. Not long later, she tries again and again by whispering in her ears so they both walk off towards the gate to open it, I catch them and say NO! to my daughter even though I know it's her encouraging her. I decide to start vacuuming in the kitchen and closed the kitchen door to vacuum behind it. There is see through glass on the door, It's the type of glass where you see out but not in. I seen her run for the stairs and try open it through the glass door as soon as I turned the vacuum cleaner on and had shut the door. I heard her say to my daughter when she saw me coming out, 'no, we can't go upstairs' like it was my daughter who opened the gate. I had enough and then went next door to find my husband and I told him what happened so he talked to her mother. She told her mother that It was my daughter not her. I told her that it's not possible for my daughter to do that and even if it was, why worry, if she doesn't know how to open/climb the gate? She can't go up unless we let her and open it for her!

-She whispers something in my daughters ear, I turned my back and then I suddenly see my daughter pull her undies down and start jumping around, the girl is laughing then she says to my daughter 'pull your pants up!' when I look at them. I suspected she told her to do that but didn't say anything the first time because I wasn't sure. When she was allowed one time in her room, I saw that she had closed the door whilst I was in the room adjacent to her bedroom and I quickly run up and open the door and I find my daughter without her undies on again and her telling my daughter to pull them up. I became extremely suspicious because I was very certain that I heard her tell her to pull them down but told her to pull them up when she saw me. She did this 3 times total. I think she is doing it because she thinks it's funny but I don't know why she is trying to get my daughter into trouble if that could be another reason for it. I was very certain after this.

Every time I see her whisper in my daughters ear, my daughter is either taking her undies off or goes straight for the stairs so it's pretty obvious she is trying to encourage her to do these things.

I told my husband she is no longer welcome in our home nor is she allowed to play with our daughter outside. I want to confront the mother but the child will deny it for sure. My mum thinks I shouldn't confront them just avoid them and drop hints and they will get the point. I prefer to be direct because she could tell her to pull her undies off at school since my daughter may be attending the school, who knows. We are friends with the parents, well my husband, I'm just polite even though I think they aren't the best of parents and would never leave my kid there. Should I confront the mother without proof? Why do you think she would behave like this when she is 8 and my child is 3?

[PokerDad]

An older peer that has behavior issues is a really bad idea. I had a few older friends from the neighborhood when I was a little kid, and I learned to do things that I wouldn't be comfortable repeating here. One thing that one of my friends taught me was how to play with fire. We once tried to light to a pile of junk on fire in a big field WITH the thought that the field would likely also catch. This is perhaps one of the more "innocent" things I learned!! There are some things that we did that I will never tell another person for the rest of my life.

The problem wasn't so much that they were older, it was that they also had severe issues that they attempted to pass on to me. When my family moved away and away from the nefarious influences, I don't recall participating in any miscreant behavior.

I just hope your husband can at least understand that this 8 year old (who is likely influenced negatively by her older siblings) will not be a good influence. There is literally NO reason for her to come over and visit, especially without the rest of her family.

PS... just down the street from me about 2 or 3 weeks ago - I know at least one 3 year old died, but there might have been a second child that also died while... playing with fire at home. Really bad idea. You just don't know what sort of negative socialization could be passed on if you don't put a stop to this now.... posting all of the above as virtual support for you. Good luck!! 

EDIT: to attempt to answer your question, I feel as though a confrontation isn't really necessary. Perhaps one approach might be just to point out that sometimes she comes over during nap time (so her impromptu visits often have poor timing) and that overall you'd prefer [and this is where if I said it, it would be a flat out lie] that your daughter spend more time with girls her own age than with older ones at this point. It doesn't have to be confrontational. You could also just lock your doors during the day and not answer the door when she comes - but a ringing door bell could be a problem.

[TeachingMyToddlers]

When she was allowed one time in her room, I saw that she had closed the door whilst I was in the room adjacent to her bedroom and I quickly run up and open the door and I find my daughter without her undies on again and her telling my daughter to pull them up.

I'm not trying to plant ideas of uncomfortable situations in your head, but from an outsiders perspective this ill behaved little girl has no respect for boundaries, is repeatedly asking your DD to remove her undergarments, and wants to go play in an unsupervised area, either with or without your daughters pants on. That is a big red flag. I agree that I would simply tell them my daughter needs to play with kids her own age and cut her off ASAP, but that situation is just way to sketchy for me to be comfortable with. Your husband will figure out how to deal at work, your daughter is more important than social niceties.

[happymommy4ever]

I think I would cut my kid off from seeing someone like that. You can remain courteous to the family but there is no need to put your little girl at risk. I would NOT feel comfortable with the things you mentioned.

[Oana86]

I feel the same way as PokerDad...there is no need to get confruntational, but you can make it clear that she's not welcomed because your daughter is either sleeping or she's busy doing whatever. Her parents will get the hint...and my guess is that she will get it as well.

Counting that your LO is only 3 she can be easily influenced, even though she might be very obedient around you and your husband. Wanting to keep her away from your neighbour is a sensible thing to do in my opinion.

[Korrale4kq]

The 8 year old girl? She sounds exactly like my neighbours daughter who is 10. She is not used to boundaries. I have just been telling her that in my home we do things a certain way. I have been gentle about it. And she is learning.  But kids don't know any differently if they have not been told. Especially at 8 where she has little judgement.
And I think kids assume that they can act in a certain way in others homes. She might be allowed to play and explore in all areas of her home. And opening the doors would most likely be acceptable. She may have a grandparents house that she goes to and she is allowed to do what she likes there also. So I would just assume she thinks it is okay in your home unless she has been told otherwise.
So lay down some rules.

[nic31600]

I was thinking it may be something small as to try and get my daughter into trouble but then I saw the serious red flag when she closed the door and her pants were off and her head was not to far away from her vagina actually, not too close but not too far if you know what I mean.

I didn't think anything the first since she started doing it in front of me first and thought maybe that was normal behaviour for an 8 year old but then moving on to doing it behind closed doors, my alarm bells went off and I'm glad I caught her in the act and very early on. I unfortunately thought, what if she wants to abuse my daughter sexually? So don't worry, I thought these things straight away.

I keep everything locked and the shutters down all day during a week day. If they ring the door bell, I don't answer it but when I see them next, I make out like I was in the shower or had my headphones on since they can hear my daughter. I pull my daughter away if she/they approach and brush them off quickly if I bump into them leaving my house. The mother invites us out when my husband is not around but I wouldn't go without him even if this never happened. We did say no to her many times so this time I told her to leave and mentioned her intrusion in my home to her parents but not the undies incident.

[Mela Bala]

I am so sorry your daughter has been exposed to all this.  I don't have much experience with situations like this but I think you should try to get the message across about the undergarment issue to her mother.  She needs to be made aware so they can help correct her behavior.  This is not normal behavior to my knowledge.  Unfortunately there maybe someone in her life who is having an inappropriate relationship with her and she is in turn passing the behavior onto your daughter. 

It's not fair you have to live like that.  Which is another reason why you should be upfront with them.  I can not imagine having to block out the beautiful sunshine everyday and getting a queasy feeling every time the doorbell rings.  My heart goes out to you.  But as TeachingMyToddler said you have to protect your daughter by all means necessary. 

I understand the situation becomes sticky since your husbands work together.  How did they react when you told them about the intrusion incident?  Maybe you can indirectly make them aware of the undergarment incident by contacting the 8 year olds school.  This should be brought to their attention so they can help protect other children she comes in contact with under their care.

[Mandabplus3]

Personally I don't think your daughter is in any danger. She seems like a naughty immature 8 year old with older siblings and few boundaries. However I wouldn't take any risks reguadless.
My suggestions
Ok she needs some firm boundaries. You need to set some clear rules so you can live comfortablyin your own home. So first up set times when she is aloud to visit. say one hour one afternoon a week and for 2 hours on Saturday at a set time ( she is 8 she would be in school normally right?). Make it clear to both her and her mum that you think that is plenty of time for your daughter to have an older playmate over.
Next time she is over set out some rules. Discuss in advance that if she breaks any of the rules she is sent home immediately.
Rule one no whispering in front of you it is rude and bad manners. If she whispers send her home, yep crying if you have to!
Rule 2. This is where you are aloud, the rest of the house is out of bounds. If you go there you go home. If she even touches the gate she goes home.
Rule 3. If my daughter takes her pants off she is doing the wrong thing and cannot have any friends over so if her pants come off YOU have to go home, sorry but that show it is.
Also mention that as she is the oldest you expect her to set a super example.
As to the play dough issue, sorry but big kids do that  Make a big batch of one color and let them go for it.
I really think if you set the rules and limit the times for each visit you will be able to live in piece and your daughter can have the playmate too.
I would go as far as setting a kitchen timer when she arrives so she knows when its time to leave! Good luck!

[nic31600]

My husband told me that the mother said, when you go over to people's houses, you ask before you go upstairs and go and apologise to the neighbour (me). Well, she never apologised.He says he told her about going through the rooms and all the cupboards but knowing my husband, I doubt he really did.

We had a bbq with them on our shared balcony. It was 10pm and the 9 year old asked his father if he could go to his friends house to play and he did, didn't at`least ask who's house and where, just let the kid go. I was like ohh great father. So I know they know no boundaries.

The day they played with the playdoh was the first day they came to my house. I gave them one colour, purple, and said that's all they can play with, not to touch the others and to only play on the plastic mat, not directly on the table surface. I went upstairs since my husband was around with them playing with the 15 year old on the Xbox. I come down not long later and every single colour is mixed, they are all playing directly on the wooden table, playdoh stuck in between the woods on the table and playdoh everywhere in my living room. My 3 yr old never even spills a drop of playdoh on the floor and look at these kids who are 5-6 years older!

I don't allow my daughter to mix the colours because I have 36 pots of different colours that's for early learning purposes only. Because I had two of the same shades of purple, I let them play with the purple. They refused to clean up their mess and just shoved the playdoh in the container with all the playdoh equipment, not the tub, even my kid doesn't behave like that and puts them back in the tub so they don't dry out, she even cleans the playdoh tools. I refused to let them play with the playdoh again. I went and bought 6 new tubs to replace the ones that got mixed together, that's why I hid the unopened packet from the kids as I didn't want my daughter to have the new playdoh yet nor wanted them to see it. Little girl opens my office and pleases herself and rips off the plastic, rips off the lids, didn't even ask if it was OK to play with it, let alone open it. What if it was a gift for someone.

They've had rules since day one and the girl has never respected them and the 9 year old is no better at times. Once she was in her room and I put all the toys away, cleaned her room up and prepared her bed, I told the girl to leave as she is going to have a shower and sleep, she pulls out ALL the toys and starts playing and I told her 3 times to leave! She'll show that she listens but not long later she does it all again trying to do it all when she thinks I'm not watching and then blames my kid. Undies incident happened 3 separate occasions but I saw her undies off multiple times.

I have had enough of this kid and I don't understand why she'd close the door and then when I opened it, she is pulling away from my kid from towards her vagina region, her head was pulling up from being in a low position. I became suspicious. I won't be needing to give her any rules since we won't be associating with her and no kids on the block seem to want to hang around JUST this sibling, I wonder why.

[Mandabplus3]

You are your daughters mum and also you are there experiencing it first hand. We arnt. So go with your instinct, it you arnt comfortable with this kid in your home, then don't allow her in. At all. Ever. Shared deck could be a usable play space, make the house out of bounds completely. Then you have complete control over the time they spend together and can easily supervise. Tell her mother you won't have her inside as she just makes too much mess and is disrespectful of your daughters things. If she gets upset, well tough. You don't really want them playing together anyway so no real harm can come of it. I think you may need to take a very firm stand. Be clear on what you are willing to allow and let them all know. Don't rely on your hubby to do the talking, he needs to remain fairly neutral due to the work commitments. This one is your job. Stand up for you beliefs.

[nic31600]

Yes, you are right and I know. I don't want them associating at all. It would be even harder to have them listen when it's a shared balcony and it could cause problems like it has before. I would rather be honest and say why so I don't have to keep using excuses but my mother seems to think I shouldn't just in case she takes it all the wrong way and since I don't really know her, she could become really violent or problematic, because it's like I'm accusing her daughter of being a sexual predator and criticizing her lack of parenting, well I would be thinking it, because she is hopeless, and since even the mother isn't there to see it, she believes I shouldn't say anything at all. That's what I'm afraid of, she is quite a large woman compared to me and I don't know her. I will have a talk with the father, that might be safer (?),, but he doesn't seem concerned about his children. Thanks for all the answers, I didn't know if I was just over reacting or if it's a normal stage an 8 year old goes through, maybe her head was else where but it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Mandabplus3]

Oh no, I have an 8 year old girl! It isn't normal but it isn't extreme either. It's the type of behaviour you get from an 8 year old with older siblings and no real parenting. Oh and the doing it behind mums back is typical naughty 8 year old behaviour. Still completely unacceptable and I wouldn't put up with this in my house. If my kids had a friend like that I would send them home, permanently!

[nic31600]

It's not normal either way so that answers my question. That's what I wanted to make sure of, that it's not normal. I immediately thought 'could it be sexual exploration? or something more serious?' Since my daughter was standing against the wall where the door touches when you open it fully and was kind of behind the door but still not directly behind it, like she wanted to hide her or something, with with her undies down and the girl positioned strangely. I really haven't been able to sleep very good seeing how all that family is and all the times I've let them in my house and turned my back. Thanks everyone

[MarthaT]

I think you did the right thing.

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