A General Pondering...

[Harty]

I love the idea of getting my child started early with his education and this looks like a fantastic website (only signed up today). 

I was a high ability student at school who got easily bored and instead resorted to messing about to get attention...I WAS the class clown/idiot.  Being a high school teacher myself, I see this happening a lot...having been in their position, I am able to come up with challenging exercises just for them and my classes are never disrupted...but I hear of these kids getting in trouble around the school...once you have a label as a "trouble-maker", it is hard to shift the idea that that is how you should behave in ALL your lessons.

Are there any concerns that starting kids off so early will put them at SUCH an advantage when they start school at 4 years old that they might actually find it difficult to engage with some of the lesson material?

Phil

[Mandabplus3]

Welcome Harty.. Phil
Many of us think about this, I have some personal experience too.
First up I want to clearly state it is always better to find school too easy and be potentially bored than to find it a struggle and deal with all that extra pressure. This is relevant to both the child and the parent! 
Secondly as more and more parents do engage their children in education early, the system itself will change to cater for them, as it should. I commend you for being one of the few teachers who has actively engaged our bright future successes. Thank you!
My own daughter is constantly in trouble at school for day dreaming, zoning out or talking. She takes it all in while off with the fairies. ( very right brained!)  I spend a fair bit of time encouraging her teachers to extend lessons so they don't involve more of the same but involve a good old brain stretch! Eg grade one bugs topic saw my girl finding a bug for every letter of the alphabet, drawing close ups of bug body parts, and habitat reconstruction. Instead of the standard worksheet of name bug, draw bug, where did you find bug! I find I have more success with her education when I am actively involved or in regular communication with her teachers. We develop strategies together...we are both currently worried about her naplan testing. We all know she could ace it but the rules are strict and we don't know if she will actually get the work done. So we are looking for strategies that work with her for success. Having a teacher keen to communicate makes a huge difference!
By the end of this year I expect my second child will blossom...symptoms showing. My son will be trouble from day one 
I am at school alot. I am a qualified teacher but a stay at home mum for now, so I help out. I see all kinds of students. The kids love having my kids in their class..they are interesting and they are compassionate. They will get up and calm a ADHD kid or help out the kids who can't read the question or don't know the method. But by just being in the class they make the teachers add interest to their lessons.
These early taught kids would be more difficult to have in your class but what a pleasure to know that potentially half your class is already above the standard expected of the by the end of your year! Imagine the fun things you could teach if your class already knew the basics!
Over all I think no matter what end of the spectrum, kids are all individuals and teaching to the middle of the class isn't going to work in the years to come with or without these mini geniuses 

[Harty]

Hey,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my pondering!   

I am always coming up with things to stretch my more able students...for instance, some 12 year olds had finished the work early the other day so I had them learning binary.  Not on the syllabus.  Not on the curriculum.  No need for them to know it as far as the school are concerned.  But hey, they loved doing something that was taxing them for a change.  One of them came to see me the next day to say that he'd taught his parents basic 8-bit binary when he got home! 

As time goes by, my memories of school life are becoming more and more distant...but I shall never forget my French teacher, Mr Smith.  Oh my word.  EVERY lesson spent copying vocab off the board and then learning the words.  And I mean EVERY lesson!  I think that was one of the reasons I went into teaching...to make sure that at least the students in my charge had half a chance of learning something and having fun at the same time!    I was always in trouble at school...just silly things to make the others laugh.  I loved maths, physics, biology and art though...I couldn't stand English...I liked things to be black or white, right or wrong...none of this "opinion" related stuff!  Art was a release where I could just do what I wanted, as long as I could justify it...then I got bored eventually when I got fed up of people saying how good my stuff was...I thought they were patronising me.  Weird how the teenage mind works, huh?! 

All I know is that every child is different...might sound obvious but then you hear teachers complaining because the ADHD kid in their class won't sit still and listen to them drone on for 25 minutes.  Well...der...

I'm excited by the prospects of teaching kids as early as possible but at the same time wary of not wanting to turn them off education completely.  I remember rebelling at 11 because my dad forced me to cram for the entrance exam to our local selective school every night...I hated it.  Of course, he only had my best interests at heart but I really resented doing something I didn't want to do.

[PokerDad]

In other words, you're wondering if it's a trap?

Okay, sorry, couldn't help myself 

This is definitely a legit concern for many and one that's discussed frequently around here. The easiest solution is to home school, but this isn't always a solution. I think by you just asking the question, you're on the right track. The second question is if we should not provide opportunity for children just because few do, or in the case of the "gifted" or otherwise fast learner, should we dumb down to the lowest (or even average) denominator just to make life easier? Very few would argue this is what should happen. Therefore, the impetus lies with the schools themselves, I would argue.

[Tanikit]

My daughter is now 4.5 years old and we started with LR when she was 8 months old, but we do have a history of early reading that runs in my family so some of these issues have not been new to me. My entire set of siblings struggled at school, me probably least of all because I managed to just fit in somehow and find extra work to do by approaching teachers and asking for it (well I was really asking for a break from boring work) I do not want my daughters to go through what we did at school and in actual fact I was fortunate in many ways as I was given advanced readers to read and left to choose how much I wanted to read from as young as 8, was pulled out of school sometimes for days for gifted classes and projects and didn't always have to suffer through normal school at least until high school.

So we are looking at homeschooling them, except that I have quite a good degree and should be using it and I cannot work and homeschool - well I am doing it now but she is still little. So basically I have about 4 months to make up my mind before I must give the school notice. She would then enter grade R (kindergarten) next year and grade 1 the year after but she is already doing grade 1 work (except for the handwriting) at home.

I do not think early education can turn them off education itself - in fact it usually promotes learning and a love for learning. What turns children off education is the school setup the way it is with lack of challenge and so much expected of them that they just have to conform to. And I can argue what I like about it being teh schools responsibility, but really in the end a child's education is the job of its parents - that is why it is our responsibility to get them to school and to choose the right school or to homeschool them and to keep an eye on them all through their growing years to help them to adulthood. I am their parent... I must make the decisions. I decided to teach early, it is still my resposnibility to help them grow to love learning and to be mature adults one day. If I leave them in the care of someone else it is my responsibility to make sure that that is the best place for them.

[PokerDad]

well the other thing that can turn a kid off to school is struggling. Someone that struggles in math or reading will frequently begin hating those subjects and might even develop phobias around them. These psychological issues then exacerbates the struggle.
Early learning massively reduces this particular risk.

[Mandabplus3]

Harty, I think you may have underestimated one VITAL fact of early education. Learning is fun! Learning has to be fun for little kids or it will not work. You were turned of education because you were FORCED to learn and study ( for your school entrace at age 11) what child would burn out if education is fun and stress free? unlike school teaching where the kids have to get through certain material to pass, early education is built on love,fun, trust and personal interests. If your toddler isn't interested in calculus then either don't teach it or find a way to make it funny! ( good luck with that one  ) periodic tables are fun for a 4 year old who has a puzzle of it. Nothing is forced or the children shut down and don't learn anything. It's gentle and fun. That is very very important.
 You sound like you were an interesting student. Excelling in the left brain subjects but still being good at art is quite unusual. You obviously had/have a well connected corpus colosseum, left and right brain bridge. That is the ultimate goal of early education! To have a student who can actively use both sides of their brain to learn, store, and retrieve information. Your students are lucky to have you teaching them in such creative ways.
Get excited, teach your baby, the problems with being too bright are much less trouble than the problems of a struggling child. Oh and being a teacher does give you some credibility when you walk up and ask for some extention work for your child! 

[Harty]

Cheers for all the replies everyone.  I'm really glad I stumbled across this forum in my searching and I'm sure that I'll be asking lots more questions as time progresses!
 
One now though...when is the right time to start?  I'm thinking the responses might be along the lines of "it's never too early!" but wondered if there was any general consensus?

Mandaplus3, you're absolutely right...I guess my parents didn't know that education could be fun at the time...but what I do know is that I'll never try and force my boy to do something he doesn't want to.  Like I said, I know they meant well but it certainly left an impression on me (hence the fact that it's still fresh in my mind some 22 years later).

[Mandabplus3]

When to start?
 You will get a few different answers.
I think a bit of common sence and physical development knowledge will help.
Basically from birth you work on eyesight development. Visual tracking and discrimination with cards and moving objects.
Also physical development of gross motor muscles. Plenty of tummy time, hanging, massage and movement.
Ears are really  well developed so play classical music from birth and use tuning forks from a few weeks old for pitch training.
At four months a crawling track and large print words and flash card pictures ( or LR plugged into you big screen TV)
From 6-months to a year keep showing large words, add dot number qualtities.  ( or LIttle math)
Introduce general knowledge using power points, children's encycropedias, actual physical visits and experiments, .don't forget swimming and gymnastics
 After a year decrease the size of the words, add couplets, sentences and phonics. Try baby sign language and introduce a second ( or third or forth)  language too. children learn languages really really easy under age 5 your child will never suffer in a language classroom like you did!
From 2 you can teach anything you want them to know. Periodic tables, binary, countries of the world, space knowledge, classification, Latin, roman numerals, fishing facts, tools, Disney princesses....endless.... Present the information using both words and pictures, and keep it light hearted, quick and fun. Don't test we are talking less than 5 minutes on one second classes of information. Also read lots of stories, lots and lots of stories, from birth until they ask you to stop because they can read it faster than you can!
This is a guide only there is a big window from 1- school, no rush sometimes your child will want a break for a month or two, that OK. You may not want to teach so much that's OK too.
Other parents will tell you what they did. Read through the forum and find your own path. It's a very flexible corriculum sometimes it's hard for us teachers to just go with the flow  you could read a Doman book and some right brain information for a general idea, and this forum is gold for questions.

[Harty]

Thanks very much!  Lots of food for thought!   

Looking forward to giving it all a go though.

[Kimba15]

Hi Harty,

The story of what happens when a child strugglesat school is a story that effexted my family.Long story short my brother had major learning difficulties by the time he was in yr one he hated school and I mean hated it. He would run away. MAny years later and one bad teacher after another. Years of my mum begging andpleadingwith the schoolto help him all failed. He left schoolin year 10 with a year 5 reading level. Got into drugs badly and has been in and out of jobs since.

He has cleaned himself up but the biggest reason he looses his jobs is because of his poor literacy skills. His writing skills are shocking and his reading skills are very poor. He still wont do anything to improve his skills though he is almost 29, but I believe if my mum had been given doman's books my brother would be in a different place.

It is not a sympathy story but one I hope inspires people to realise that you may not know if your son/daughter has problem you can intervene before there is a chance of it developing or even it developing only slightly.

[Tanikit]

Basically early education starts at birth but in what form it starts is up to the parent and also other factors. Many first time parents are still coming to terms with having a new person to look after, lack of sleep and generally just trying to cope with everyday life. Nonetheless most parents do still speak to their babies, spend time with them, sing to them and let them listen to music.

After that it is up to you and your child. I started showing both my girls words at about 6-8 months old and increased this close to a year of age. Swimming I started when the weather was warmer as we didn't have a heated pool which meant the child born in summer started younger than the one born in spring.  Math I started with my elder later than with my younger simply because the younger hears everything I do with the older and she does a LOT of counting around and for the baby.

Do what works for you. The earlier you start generally the easier it is, but those starting later are generally not at too much of a disadvantage - it all depends what your aims are.

[Latreia]

I started with my bb before she was born, more of experimenting though.
I played music & tapped my tummy, after 3 days, when the music was on, she would tapped back ！
Later on, as she kicked me alot, I would tickled her feet & guess what, after few days, she got it &
tickled me as pay-back !

When she was a new-born, we would blow at her tummy for fun, later at 3 months old,
she would blow hard at my thigh or her dad's bare shoulders...

Started swimming at 7 m/o & could now spin around just with a neck float.
Education aside, even as she learned her share;
now at 16 months, she will get every expressions from us & displayed to everyone after a while 

Talkin about imitation !!

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