Article: Highly Gifted Children in the Early Years

[Tamsyn]

I picked up Sidney Ledson's "Give your child Genius IQ" today.  I found it interesting that Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill, Karl Witte, and Lord Kelvin, among others, were all child geniuses of parents who believed in early learning.  They emphatically stated that their children's intelligence was a result of their education, and that they could produce the same results with any other child.  John Stuart Mill said the following:

"If I had beenby nature extremely quick of apprehension, or had possessed a very accurate and retentive memory, or were of a remarkably active and energetic character, the trial would [still] not be conclusive; but in all these natural gifts I am rather below than above par; what I could do, could assuredly be done by any boy or girl of average capacity and healthy physical constitution:  and if I have accomplished anything, I owe it, among other fortunate circumstances, to the fact that through the early training bestowed on me by my father, I started, I may fairly say, with an advantage of a quarter of a century over my contemporaries."

So now I ask myself, what is the difference between gifted and well educated?  Certainly a famous singer could be said to have been gifted with their beautiful voice, for although singing can be taught, you simply have the instrument that you were born with.  Some will genetically be better built for Olympic sports that others, no matter how superb their education is.  Certainly some children will take to some academic pursuits more readily than others, but what constitutes being gifted?  If John Stuart Mill denies that he was gifted, then who is?  Perhaps being gifted is simply a rare talent that cannot be predicted when a child is born.  Most adults would never predict that an average child is capable of reading when they are three, and so those who do must be gifted.  But we on this forum assume that they can and will.  When they do reach that potential, we are not surprised because we predicted that they would.  Our peers perhaps feel otherwise and say label our children as gifted.

I don't have the answers, but I have been thinking a lot about this thread.  Perhaps my children aren't gifted.  I don't think that they are, because I know that my 3-month-old will be reading just like her older siblings are.  I expect it.  HOWEVER, for all intents and purposes, they are gifted.  The typical kindergarten curriculum is inadequate for my oldest.  I have realized that I need a little bit of a paradigm shift.  I'm somewhat reluctantly researching educational programs for the gifted because that is what my children need now.

Thank you everyone for the interesting discussion!

[shadahfree]

I don't agree. The first child is not necessarily the smartest. Have you seen the dynamics of large families? My mother calls it the trickle down effect. The older teaches the younger usually unintentionally. When I was in elementary school I helped my older brother with his high school homework. When my older sister was learning piano, we imitated her.  We drew treble clefs, picked out her songs by ear,etc. An amazing amount of early learning happened simply because of the wide range of ages and interests in a small space. Have you seen that Tamsyn? I see it as a disadvantage to my children that we will probablt not be able to have a large family.

[Tamsyn]

As far as Frukc's comment on gifted children being the oldest, well, there are some studies that suggest that they may be more academically inclined, ie, to pursue higher education, but even if that is so, that doesn't make them be more gifted.  It may mean that their parents pushed them to get a degree more than their younger siblings.  The first is the grand guinea pig, and once parents see that they did alright, perhaps they push the younger ones less.  I personally am the oldest of 11, and while I have confidence in my abilities, my younger siblings certainly have a lot of talent and are on par, or even surpass me.  I have amazing parents that have striven to be equal with their children.  I'm the only one with a degree, but my brother next to me has a great job teaching at the tech school, is an avid reader, and is happy.  Then my sister has traveled overseas three times to teach English.  She now is pursuing midwifery, but she is as old as I was when I graduated.  She wouldn't trade her experiences overseas for a white piece of paper like I have, even if the world would say that she was less academic than me.  Hello!  She can speak Chinese now.  I certainly can't.    The next brother just got back from a two-year church mission, and the rest are younger and are each excelling in their own right.

In my own home, with the oldest of 4 being 5 and a little baby, I can honestly say that my oldest child received a lot more personal attention FROM ME when he was a toddler then my current toddler gets.  I just had more time for him, and I did my best with what I had.  But I didn't know about EL then like I do now.  My personal resource library has grown.  My younger kids are better readers for their age then he was simply because I know how to teach them better.  They want to do what their older brother is doing.  I think it all works out in the end.  There are inherent advantages and disadvantages to sibling order, and they vary from family to family.

[Korrale4kq]

I am a middle child of 3. I was the only one in my family considered gifted.

From personal observations I have seen that it is the second or subsequent  child that is more advanced or gifted.  The first child may get the benefit of one on one, but that first child often becomes an unbeknownst  teacher to their younger sibling if they are close in age. I always recommend to pregnant mothers who are considering potty training their older babies and toddler to wait and just potty train both at once. My younger sister walked months earlier than my brother and I just because she wanted to keep up and play with us. This pattern relates to many other aspects of learning. If they three year old is learning something the younger child is often soaking up the information by proxy, or they are making a concerted effort so that they can play the same things as their siblings.

I think TMT has seen this with her 2 children.

[carpe vestri vita]

Statistically speaking, oldest children have higher IQs than subsequent children.

In the study, Norwegian epidemiologists analyzed data on birth order, health status and I.Q. scores of 241,310 18- and 19-year-old men born from 1967 to 1976, using military records. After correcting for factors that may affect scores, including parents’ education level, maternal age at birth and family size, the researchers found that eldest children scored an average of 103.2, about 3 percent higher than second children (100.3) and 4 percent higher than thirdborns (99.0).

The difference was an average, meaning that it varied by family and showed up in most families but not all.

The scientists then looked at I.Q. scores in 63,951 pairs of brothers, and found the same results. Differences in household environments did not explain elder siblings’ higher scores.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/21/science/21cnd-sibling.html?pagewanted=all

I've seen for myself families that have younger children that are more precocious, that is capable of doing things earlier. But even in the families I am familiar with the older is frequently more gifted, that is capable of going farther. I think the act of teaching siblings, or the competition of having a sibling (and not wanting to be outdone), or some other factor in their relationship to each other, causes the older to develop more, though not necessarily faster.

[DadDude]

I'm the youngest of four...the only one of us to graduate from college, although my siblings are no dummies.

The 3 IQ points might be statistically significant, but it's still a tiny amount. What's the standard deviation, I wonder?

[Tamsyn]

I'm pretty sure that the standard deviation on IQ tests is 20 points.  100 is average.

[Kerileanne99]

Tamsyn-
In reading your posts I was reminded of a few threads in recent months that you might enjoy! Personally, they have completely changed my thinking, my approach, and my 'Mindset' (title of a fantastic book by Dr. Carol Dweck)
Hope you enjoy them as much as I did (as well as many others here )

http://forum.brillkids.com/general-discussion-b5/can-genius-be-learned-or-is-it-preordained/

http://forum.brillkids.com/general-discussion-b5/'mindset'-is-a-fabulous-book!-but-it's-hard-to-live/

http://forum.brillkids.com/general-discussion-b5/'talent-is-overrated'-practicing-parenting/

http://forum.brillkids.com/general-discussion-b5/'the-talent-code'/

[seastar]

I'm the youngest of four...the only one of us to graduate from college, although my siblings are no dummies.

The 3 IQ points might be statistically significant, but it's still a tiny amount. What's the standard deviation, I wonder?

3 IQ points would still be within the confidence interval so it would not be significant as far as I know. The standard deviation is 15, so two standard deviations above the norm, 130, is considered gifted, while two below, 70, is considered a learning disability.

[PokerDad]

I'm pretty sure that the standard deviation on IQ tests is 20 points.  100 is average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iq

I'm not sure about tests, but IQ SD is 15.

We can go all day with the anecdotal stuff LOL... I'm the oldest of three and easily the most intelligent (and would guess by around 30 points at minimum) - but I have a different father so there goes that, confounding variable and all, plus I might confuse educated vs. non-educated (I'm the only one I'd consider remotely educated). I DO remember teaching the middle brother a bit while growing up, but he didn't take to school much.... but DID take to basketball and I helped him loads there too, and he became very precocious at it. The youngest didn't get taught squat by us brothers and I'd guess he has an IQ around 85-90. I have two other brothers by the same father and both are in engineering.... so perhaps I have a good case of nature instead of nurture (my latent intellect didn't really hatch until I made it happen on my own as an adolescent)

[DadDude]

I mean, what was the standard deviation for the difference between firstborns vs. second borns...that's something you'd have to look at the study to know, I believe. In other words, if firstborns and second borns are 3 IQ points apart on average, since there is presumably significant variation in how far apart siblings are, how far from the average is the variation, on average? If the standard deviation were large, the effect becomes even less striking (I think).

[diva7]

Mandabplus3....why would anyone prepare a child for such a test?  It defeats the object !  To pay for a cheat test when the whole object of the test to find out why .. in my case...whats wrong with my child..she wasnt happy... has issues with learning. I might be too brief previously in my reply but for your misjudgement, I only saw one bit of the test when the psychologist showed me which section of the test my daughter had lost interest in. That was my thoughts at the time when I saw what this is all about. Just shapes and logic sequences etc. It was too easy for her and she drifted off and no she wasnt a maths whizz but could probably only count to 50...cannot add or subtract anything...not a math EL. Hence a math whizz could top this test in their sleep.

I dont believe any parent would put their child to such preparations...unless the goal is to put the child into some prestigious school. My daughter is attending a public/state school. So no we didnt cheat if thats what you are suggesting. We did come out with answers after the test was done and some understanding to why she wasnt happy in a montessori enviroment doing strict repetitive learning. So thats all that matters..oh but it does feel great to have such papers in hand! 

[Mandabplus3]

Diva7, I have actually been discussing the ethics of test prepping offline this last week. Some of my thoughts...
I think the most important thing is to know your objective. Is it to get into an elite school? I think this is the main reason MOST parents use the test preparation questions that are available. In some countries the gifted and talented and elite schools are the only place to get a good education. To get into them, you need to get your kids in at age 4. Which has been proven to be an inadequate age to assess giftedness, as it often shows up much later. On that basis many parents prep their kids to ensure they pass the tests and get into the school. If you have an EL child who is obviously well educated and needs more than a standard education, then I see getting them ready for an IQ test as something sensible to do. If you are already aware that your kid needs a better education this is just one way to ensure they get it. I don't see it as cheating, any more than teaching 2/3 year olds to read is cheating the education system.
Why use test prep material other than to get into the good schools? Well this was my main question. After careful consideration I decided that if I could teach my children to think in the same way that gifted children seem to think ( you know that creative, information manipulation and connection stuff) then I have succeeded as a mum! It is kind of the ultimate aim of education, to develop kids who can think for themselves, learn, make connections, and be inquisitive and creative in their learning. These test prep questions (might?)  help children learn to think that way. The questions can also highlight areas of weakness and strength.
If you need to actually know how gifted your child is, then I do think testing under age 8 is probably not that accurate, ( IMHO) but it's often better than nothing, as like you say, that piece of paper is power, especially with schools! Your testing has helped your child get what she needs from her education. I think that's pretty much what all parents want. It's just that some parents want different things for their child's education.
Oh for the record for those interested in testing moms website. It is quite a bit cheaper than I thought. For an email address you get 100 free questions to try out ( online only, mixed ages) and for $39 you have access to every question she has, all available to print but not save. So if you want to go on a printing frenzy it'll cost you $39 plus ink and paper for all 20000 questions. That should be more than enough to produce a genius, if that's your goal 

[diva7]

Thanks for the explanation. I am in Australia..theres no such preparation here, not that I am aware of atm.There are cram schooling(extra tutoring) to get ahead but never heard of IQ prep tests here! I havent been online (here)for a while. Would need to catch up on all the info!

The only requirment to get into a gifted and talented class here would only require a child who is just ahead through tutoring or any other means. Dont require IQ tests for entry.

[Korrale4kq]

I have not checked out IQ style tests preps such as TestingMom but I have seen test prep for SATs (American standardized aptitude test for college admissions)  and my son has critical thinking books and apps that are full of logic, analogies and more. These kinds of books and apps are touted to be good for test practice for tests to get into prestigious preschools, and for standardized IQ tests.
My son is not going to a prestigious school, and I don't have any intention for him to take a Gifted and Talented or IQ  kind of test. I use these work books to foster a different type of thinking. They are so rich and full of activities that i can not find in any of the humdrum workbooks he has. I personally have always found these types of critical thinking books fun. I used to do the logic puzzle books for fun as a kid just like people do sodoku or crosswords. So far James is loving the work and is thriving. I see no reason not to let him enjoy it.


GENERAL TESTING
I know this is controversial: I went to school in QLD (Australia) and though testing is not as rigorous as the US (where I live now) we were taught to test. Nearly every class I was ever in had a little segment on testing strategies and test preperation. I am so greatful for having this. It made testing a breeze, not just for me but for the majority of my classmates. When I took the QCS test back in the late 90s the whole atmosphere for students was relaxed and all my friends did well. I took the SATs in the US several years later and the anxiety in the room was palpable. Sadly the anxiety and stress is as high in the elementary schools here also. And many kids have such high degrees of test anxiety that testing is not a good measure of their capabilities.

document.getElementById('recent_loading').style.display = 'none';document.getElementById('recent_page_box').style.display = '';

Page: 1/4  

Loading...

Members

• Total Members: 214772
• Latest: addisonjones

Stats

• Total Posts: 110526
• Total Topics: 19136
• Online Today: 255
• Online Ever: 826
• (January 22, 2020, 12:09:49 AM)

Users Online

• Users: 0
• Guests: 185
• Total: 185