Xmas idea and question regarding Soroban

[lzp11]

I really like the app too!  It has helped me to get over my own fear of the soroban    I've been practicing myself so I'm better able to teach my DD.  It's amazing - I have made a lot of progress in a couple of days.  I'd like to make sure I'm doing it properly so I also need some help to know which fingers are used to move which beads on the abacus.

For info, I bought the paid for version of the app.  It's just the same as the free but in the free version you can't progress beyond about level 18 or so.  Annoyingly, in the paid for version you have to start again from the beginning to unlock each level - you can't skip to the level that you reached in the free app.  There is also quite a sudden increase in difficulty at this point.  I checked out the Facebook page of the app's developer.  He had just posted a question asking if people thought the app was a bit hard for teaching children. I posted that I thought it needed to have more levels and a gradual progression in difficulty.  He replied that they have just updated this version and it will have more levels and not jump up so quickly.  He also said that they are in the process of developing an app for kids that is even simpler.  So that might be good too.

[Korrale4kq]

I am actually loving the app. I am at a level in the mid 20s. I too think it has helped me a lot. I have watched soroban videos and seen many demonstrations online  but I was not able to really get the "regrouping" until now. Albeit I did have to repeat the levels a few times once we hit regrouping.
I am not too concered about the progress speed honestly. I just have James repeat levels. Many times over until he gets a high score, not just a passing score. He has now made it to level 4. For me I only go up a level when I get a perfect score.
And to be honest.... I cheat with the mental math part and do the math in my head the traditional way. Hard habit to break.

[TeachingMyToddlers]

Izp11 that app is amazing. My son took to it immediately. We are working on making sure he uses the correct finger/thumb to move the beads.

I do have a question for those familiar with soroban. Will it matter if my son uses his left hand to move the beads? He is presenting as dominantly left handed and it is the hand he chose. Or should I try and encourage him to use his right hand? He does write with both hands by choice but does everything else like eating, throwing etc left handed.

I was thinking about this as well and am conflicted. IIRC, I see children on youtube manipulating the beads with one hand and writing with another. My DD is RH'd, but then eventually wouldn't that pose a conflict between writing and manipulating in the air with the same hand? The other factor is that I would prefer she use her left hand in a sense because wouldn't that better stimulate the right brain, or is that aspect irrelevant?

Just found this right now after a quick search which says to use your dominant hand- http://dada.cca.edu/~gkuk/abacus/_PDF/contents.pdf

The main site for this is http://dada.cca.edu/~gkuk/soroban_beyond_calculator/index.html

You always use the thumb and nger of your strongest hand to
move the beads up and own. Always keep the three unused ngers
tucked into the palm of the hand, but lightly.
Always use the thumb to add the one value beads.
Always use the forenger to add the ve value beads and to take
away any of the beads.

[Korrale4kq]

Thank you for that.

As I progressed through the abacus adventure app I found that they use 2 hands. Which admittedly I am not comfortable with. I am certainly going to check out those links you posted Tonya, so that I can start James off with good form.

[TeachingMyToddlers]

Don't worry too much b/c I think either is probably fine. The only reason I say that is because IIRC, Aangles specifically chose a school that uses both hands to better stimulate both sides of the brain? It's hard to remember now, but you could either PM her or do a search.  Of course depending on where you look for an "official" answer if you should use one or both hands, like anything, the answer will depend on who you ask and what methodology they follow. Let us know how it goes! I think the majority of us are all 'winging it' and could use the encouragement. 

[Kerileanne99]

I am working on ideas for my favorite part of the Xmas shopping: stocking stuffers

I just came across this and ordered it IMMEDIATELY! A Japanese Style Soroban at an great price, correct sized & shaped beads, all wood... For $19.99   I so hope the quality is good, but here you go!

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f151/?pfm=geek-kids_newest_f151_7

[nadia0801]

Hi Keri, we didn't have a chance of using a soroban software so I cannot comment on mathsecret. I got my information from one of the better-rated books on soroban "Japanese Abacus by Takashi Kojima". I'd be happy to forward an e-book copy. Re using left/right/ both hands, Cammie's and (Ella's) school bridged over to using the one-hand approach after finding out that that method is being used in other countries. They had an international competition and observed that using one-hand is more efficient/faster in doing computations.

I looked at the soroban at thinkgeek. I think it's an abacus with a wooden frame and brown plastic beads. I think it's fine for introducing Alex to the soroban but if you're looking for a quality soroban, you may want to buy at www.soroban.com. We bought a 13-digit all-wood for 4,200 Japanese Yen. Shipping is free.

[Kerileanne99]

Nadia0801,
Thanks so much for the great advice and book recommendation I sent you a PM!
Funnily enough, it was supremely fantastic timing! I have been reluctant to invest in a nice Soroban more from fear of my ability to teach it than anything else. And of course, there is the fact that it is seemingly impossible to get her into a class for at least two more years >
However, I recently sent several exploratory emails to faculty at the Uni here, and have discovered a professor willing to meet with her for private lessons--provided he thinks she is ready! I don't think he believes that she is able to do a fraction of the things we are doing
Unfortunately, he does not have the time to teach her long term, he is willing to get her started!

Oh! I also have to give you a huge thank you for the idea of having the LO give their knowledge of multiplication table facts as a gift. This has been a huge hit in exciting Alex to finish up the remaining facts! (Using the multiplication.com materials, with stories JUST slightly modified/personalized to make them appeal to her.)She is SO proud to work hard on a gift for daddy for a special Xmas present, and she adores keeping the secret until then, with lots of giggles and whispers she has been begging to practice them every day this week as she wants it to be perfect, an I love the fact that she is learning that some of the best gifts are not purchased in a store!
I am definitely going to have the video camera ready on Xmas morning!

[lzp11]

Thanks for the link to the Soroban site Nadia - I am thinking of purchasing one. I'm wondering if it's better to start with a small 5 or 5 column soroban for my DD so she doesn't get overwhelmed.  has anyone else used these or just gone straight for a full soroban?

Keri - if you are struggling to find a teacher maybe you could look at distance learning?  Our local soroban teacher starts at age 3-3.5 for face to face classes and will post out the materials monthly.  You may well be able to find someone in the US who would do this as well?  Then the requirement for age is less of an issue as you will be doing the teaching yourself using the materials provided and you can adapt as you see fit (as you have been doing already with all the other learning ;-)  It might also reduce time in the car.

[A_BC]

Thanks Nadia for sharing the link. This is the Soroban I'm looking for: a 13-digit all-wood with larger beads and visual indicator for the units rod

Regarding transition form RS Abacus to Soroban, has anyone tried the Activities for AL Abacus book? http://store.rightstartmath.com/activitiesforalabacus.aspx

Here is the product description:

A manual showing how to use the AL Abacus to teach arithmetic to children K-4 through hands-on and visual work. Topics include place value, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, strategies for mastering facts, and instructions for adding on the Japanese or Chinese abacus.

I'm wondering if using those instructions will make the transition easier for our LOs. Any thoughts?

[Kerileanne99]

AB_C-
I have the RS Activities For The AL Abacus, and LOVE it. I will explain, but first let me try to answer your question...
I think that description is very misleading! The book itself is geared toward the AL abacus, although many of the activities, games, and methods could be adapted to either a Chinese or Japanese abacus. However, there really is Minimal instruction on these types.  The last unit, Unit 11, has a 5.5 page section with general instruction sheet that includes instructions for using thin bands of tape on the AL Abacus to modify it, and problems to work.  It definitely would not be great for a stand-alone introduction, and if you are planning on transitioning fully to Soroban, I think there are more useful instruction methods to use!
HOWEVER!
If, like us, you plan on teaching both? BUY IT!
The text really is a fantastic overall guide to using the AL Abacus. We actually use it as much, if not more often, than the RS Lessons. We are going through all of the lessons regularly in RS B as obviously I want to be very careful not to miss anything or assume full understanding. There are also lots of extras, such as time, money, fractals, etc. But my one pet peeve with RS is that it takes a VERY long time to even get to other operations than addition.  And she/we need to know how to do it/teach it (the other operations that is!) in a manner consistent to how she will need it should she continue through all levels of RS.
For example: if you are working through RS A or RS B, the kids master addition before even considering subtraction. In some ways I can see why, but as we are also doing things like Singapore Math, which teaches number bonds, if is MUCH more reasonable to teach addition/subtraction and Multiplication/division together. That is the brilliance of having the Activities book- you get a nice synopsis/guide for teaching all of this without needing to buy all RS levels A-D just to see how it will be presented! We have been using the Multiplication.com materials (Alex wants to surprise Daddy on Xmas morning ), and it was extremely useful to have the Activities book to demonstrate how her facts were shown in ala RS.
In fact, I know that many people have successfully used the Activities for the AL Abacus as a stand-alone curriculum. I wouldn't recommend that, but if it were used along side inexpensive workbooks, or MEP, or JumpMath, or Singapore....it would be extremely effective on a budget! Especially if one also purchased the RS Games set
One example of how it worked for us: when I first started teaching Alex math facts (I think she was about two), I was giving her ten objects and letting her divide them up into different piles, demonstrating that the two piles always added up to ten. It was working, but more slowly than I would have thought...the Activities book has a lovely diagram and activity by which the different ways to splitting up ten beads are represented on each wire-providing an awesome visual that not only was quickly understood but taught the Commutative property. In minutes! And so much, much more.

Okay, enough said on the value for money book! Personally, it is packed with so many lovely ideas for LOs that I would highly recommend it regardless of which type of abacus. I just don't think it would be a nice primary source for Soroban. As a supplement to just about any abacus-style math program, it is an absolute gem

[A_BC]

Thanks Keri for your reply. Very helpful! Currently, we are on RS level A but I frequently use the AL abacus to teach subtraction especially when we play Sum Swamp or work on JG. My son loves to mix all the curricula together (last time, I caught him secretly playing a huge matching game with his Montessori number rods, beads, RS cards and JG matrix cards )  Getting the RS activity book can help us do some more "mixing".  As for Soroban, I am still looking for a program that suits my son's learning fashion who is still  very RB. Also, there is an interesting post by TMT about Soroban and she has recently added more links to various  programs: http://forum.brillkids.com/product-discussions-and-reviews/overall-abacus-programs-math-discussion/15/

BTW, I am so happy for Alex, she's doing an excellent job with her multiplication table!




Shhh, let her read that sentence for some more encouragement

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