Is there room for discussion here?

[McDume]

Thanks, DadDude. You're right about 'fighting words', of course. Must be my passive/aggressive side. Apologies, and I appreciate you not raking me over the coals!

 

[Cris mother of G and GG]

Hi McDume,

I'm sure 17 years ago, or even further back (while your wife was pregnant) you were thinking outside the box in terms of what would be the best approach for your children education. Am I right? I'm sure, like us, you have gone out of your way, educated yourself, researched (with the tools that were available at the time), books, videos, studies...

Certainly you have come across studies, or methodologies that you believe did not fit your way of living, or that made you uneasy and that you would not put your kids through it…

Like you we have done the same, and we arrived here… these parents/granparents/carers/ teachers that you come across here are eager to share, and learn from each other and from our kids too…

Perhaps as you suspected some people take things to the extreme, trying to force kids to “learn” in a forceful environment, and are happy to feed their egos showing off their kids reading around the playground (we cannot stop people from doing whatever they want to do at the privacy of their houses). But I can assure you that is not what this early childhood development is all about.

Glenn Doman has dedicated a lifetime promoting early education, more than 40 years now, (http://www.iahp.org/), not only to health kids but specially kids with brain injury which have been lucky enough to be stimulated early enough to repair themselves their brain injuries and grow up to live a more dignifying life (who would not what a child to be given this chance?)

When people ask me how come my kids can read… I answer: we play with written words, a lot, in fact we play with written words everywhere, at home, on the supermarket, in the car, at the beach… my girls just love playing with written words, from books, billboards, signs, catalogues, boxes… they are everywhere… and we can play our silly games, point to words, decoding them and laughing if we think they are most unusual like when my 4 years old saw ENOUGH… and would not stop pronouncing it and telling me it was funny… Who am I do disagree?

As per the results of the studies you have come across that by grade 3 the kids have lost their zeal to learn, well I cannot answer for that, but I suspect that must have something to do with the forcing you also spoke about before… Don’t know…

All I want for my kids is that they are happy and I take my cues from them, the satisfaction in my children’s eyes when they read me a book all by themselves or when they spot a word that they have never seem before and are able to read it, is undeniable, so I will keep on my path of learning and challenging the “status quo” that children will learn to read when they are ready, I say they were born ready, but unfortunately we didn’t know.

Glenn Doman actually says that we are ready to read as much as we are ready to talk, and if people only spoken to us in a very quiet voice (because we were not ready), we would not learn to talk until later… same thing with words, they have to be big and bold so the kids can clearly see each one of them and not mixed in small prints in books.

Welcome to our forum and I hope you “learn/teach” with us…

[Cris mother of G and GG]

Hi Hypatia,

"The idea for me is that once my daughter has a great grasp of maths for example (which i don't, and i suffer now as an adult) then 'learning' won't be a painful experience linked to failure, and her life will be facilitated."

That is exacly the reason why I started to research about early childhood education, I grew up in Sao Paulo/Brazil and only went to public primary school at 7 years of age, struggle throughout my academic life, was always behind and had a horrible memory of my father trying to teach me the alphabet and physically punishing me if I got it wrong. I didn't know what to do not to repeat history but I was sure of what not to do...

If my girls are at easy with learning, as I see them now... my goal has being achieved... it is nothing about "showing them off" is all about building their self stem, and pleasure for learning...

Cris

[patreiche]

Nikitta, like you, I do this because of the experience I had when I was a child. My parents didn't do early education with me, but they sent me to a very good kindergarten. This was forty years ago. Now back then, you walked into kindergarten knowing pretty much nothing other then how to talk. The kindergarten I attended was different. They taught you how to add and subtract, French, and other normal things like abcs. The kindergarten was only half day. The school closed the following year so I had to go to a different school. I was at a third grade level in Math and French.
I was not anomaly all the kids in the class had the same success. We learned all of this because someone bothered to teach us. We were not pressured because I remember part of the day was graham crackers and milk and learning songs and nursery rhymes. I also missed several weeks of school due to normal childhood illnesses. I don't remember very much from my childhood but I still have very fond memories of kindergarten. I remember when someone hit our car and dad asked me to count to 100 in French. The guy who hit us looked at my dad and asked him if I counted correctly. Dad said he didn't know but he was sure I was alright because I was able to respond with something that sounded reasonable.

The reason that you do not see success beyond third grade is because even if the parents trouble to teach their kids our wonderful school system will dumb them down to be just like everyone else. That is what happened to me. I was not allowed to attend Math class until fourth grade because I was advanced. I was sent to piano lessons instead. French class well I was bored for most of grade school. Back then they did not normally teach a foreign language in grade school.

In order for early education to be a success, parents either have to home school or remain active in their child's education after they attend school. Until someone realizes that the early years are critical to a child's learning and that dumbing children to equal status is not very smart, I doubt you will notice any results from early education.

I know another mother with a Master's in Education whose approach to education was more like yours and she seems quite proud of how her son has benefited from her approach. I on the other hand see a very independent child to whom partying is very important and has no desire to have a relationship with her other then for money or other needs.

PS: MySunshine that was cute.

[McDume]

Thanks, Cris! My experience is very much like yours. My two daughters basically taught themselves to read at 3-4 years because they wanted to (the boy, well, he's still a wild card). The girls didn't have tv/videos/dvd's, so learning to read the captions in their picture books was their best shot at entertainment. But I would call this self-directed learning, not teaching -- they asked, we answered. Maybe we're talking about the same approach?

This is a wonderful forum with some of the most decent parents I've come across on the web (which can be a jungle, as you know). I will leave this discussion with one suggestion, and that is to look at Janet Lansbury's blog post and especially the VIDEO of a self-directed child learning at age 4-months, then again at 2-years putting together a 30-piece puzzle (http://bit.ly/axk3SH).

This post and video were the reasons I posted here at all, I was so impressed. This boy was never shown a flash card or a DVD, never 'taught' by his parents, and he is apparently now something of a math whiz doing middle school courses in 3rd grade. Because he is intrinsically motivated. There is plenty of other wisdom at janetlansbury.com as well, no 'tips and tricks', including preparing for doctors' visits, 'good' grief, etc etc. 

And again, I am not a blood relative of Janet Lansbury's. Just a former student and grateful admirer. I have sent Janet an e-mail asking her to check out this community and am hoping she does.

That's all I know.

[Nikita]

I watched the video and thought the baby watching the light bounce off the metallic bowl and directing the light around very bright. But he only had that bowl because his parents gave him a metal bowl to play with. He didn't think to himself that he'd like to learn about physics that day and go to the cupboard and get the bowl. Without parents providing the learning materials in the first place learning opportunities are lost.

[MySunshine]

Patreiche : Thank you ..at least someone understands my humor, I actually got a PM telling me I should be respectful and act like an "adult".>> wow...well I had a good laugh tho.

I watched the video and thought the baby watching the light bounce off the metallic bowl and directing the light around very bright. But he only had that bowl because his parents gave him a metal bowl to play with. He didn't think to himself that he'd like to learn about physics that day and go to the cupboard and get the bowl. Without parents providing the learning materials in the first place learning opportunities are lost.

I totally agree Nikita.
If leaving babies to learn on their own without any interference was the way to go.. I should have became a genius.
I was raised by my grandparents, they fed and clothed me very well but they just didnt have the energy to teach me. I was pretty much just told that I wasn't "book material" :\ ( I should talk to my therapist about this one..) I (my brain) was left alone untill I was about 8th grad, an 1on 1 ESL teacher finally made me realized that I can learn too.
All I wanted for my son is the tool to pick up things with ease so he will be able to do more things he enjoy doing rather than stressing about all the other stuff that he has to do. Because I sure did waste a lot of time and I wish somebody would have teach me earlier.

[McDume]

Um... I think we're at loggerheads. And I hear the sarcasm. No problem. Contempt without investigation, all that... Difference is that I can point to thousands of living, breathing, flourishing adult products of my particular parenting style. And research, and studies.. you apparently can't.

Please, though, if anyone can produce a single longterm scientific study from anywhere in the world that demonstrates the benefits of 'teaching' infants, I am open. Meantime, good luck with your science projects. Good luck to us all. 

[patreiche]

Well I think you are not listening to the fact that we can point out several people raised your method that are total failures. I think I pointed to a parent that raised her child your way. She is quite proud of the way she raised her child and I would say her child is a not a total failure but certainly not a success. The major point I would make is she cries regularly because he wants nothing to do with her except for money. She blames numerous things for her woes. But the reason is never the way she chose to educate her child and teaching him to be so independent.

I would say that parents have a different view of what determines a successful raising of a child. If you think having an independent child that wants nothing to do with their parents, then fine. I think a teaching method that has more nurturing and bonding is important. Not touching your child except when absolutely necessary sounds barbaric to me.

I would also agree with Nikitta. You are selecting for the child a toy that allows them to explore and learn. We select toys for our children so that they can explore and learn also. You just don't see yourself as teaching. If you want to see kids that are not taught by their parents at all go to your local school and look for the total failures. I just can't see where you think the data is on your side.

[PY]

Um... I think we're at loggerheads. And I hear the sarcasm. No problem. Contempt without investigation, all that... Difference is that I can point to thousands of living, breathing, flourishing adult products of my particular parenting style. And research, and studies.. you apparently can't.

Please, though, if anyone can produce a single longterm scientific study from anywhere in the world that demonstrates the benefits of 'teaching' infants, I am open. Meantime, good luck with your science projects. Good luck to us all. 

I will kindly invite you to read some of Doman's book. I am sure you will have some answers there.
I am giving to my child all the opportunities for her to have a good education and I wish every child could have the same oportunity. My parents gave me the best education,quality of life, every opportunity to learn and explore and be happy. I want the best for my child.I have no complains!! I was a really lucky person.
You see evrybody was raised on different ways(even with difference sense of humor  )but at the end we love our children and we look the best for them.
As a mother and  as teacher I will love everychild in the world will have more opportunities in life to learn.

Yesterday a couple of friends came over for dinner with their lovely 16 months old daughter, my daugther(who is two years old)took her little friend to her bedroom to show her some flashcards. They spent over 40 minutes looking words and sharing them until We had to stop them, because it was dinner time. Like I said before My daughter has fun with letters, without me telling her TO DO SO.

I have only couple of questions for you dear mcdume.How did you GUIDE your children  to learn to read? and at what age did they learn how to read?

[McDume]

Thanks so much! I will read Doman's book. And, you should know, I have sent several friends/associates that lean more toward active teaching to this site. Everyone seems to have a very tempered approach, so who knows?

Thanks for the info the lively discussion. (I was going to write 'thanks for teaching me a few things', but thought better of it  ).

Good luck to us all!

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