Not working this time - 2 years of EL and not reading.

[TheyCan]

After two years...I'm finally writing to you guys for help!! 

I did early learning with my five year-old and it was amazingly successful and seemed nearly effortless.  He was reading words before he turned one and learned just about everything that I ever presented to him.  We're still on a role and he still amazes me every day.  However...I don't have the same story so far with his just turned 2 year-old brother and I just don't know what steps to take next.  I could easily throw in the towel and say "well...it doesn't work for everyone and I shouldn't compare"....but the benefits that I've seen in my older soon have been too outstanding to ignore.  Or would he be better off if I just dropped everything??
It seems like I own nearly every EL video mentioned on this board and I own all of Doman's books (even have all his supplies - the cd picture dictionaries, EK cards, etc).   So..I should be equipped - LOL!  I've also been reading posts on this board for close to five years.  However, there is no sign of any of it working in my just turned two year-old . 

The biggest difference I've noticed between my two boys is their focus.  When my oldest was little, he would be totally and completely glued to the screen starting at five months-old when YBCR was playing!  He would also sit for hours at a time as a one year-old when I read to him. My second son is not like that at all.  He seems so distracted.  He's only interested in a video if he's never seen it before - and even then it usually just half of the video.  His eyes are looking everywhere but the computer screen or me (even when eating at the table) when doing LR, flashcards, Starfall, Reading Bear - etc.  He did know most of the letter sounds from Leap Frog - but doesn't seem interested in sharing those sounds lately.  And no - I really don't believe he's just hiding all his knowledge from me - he really doesn't seem to recognize any words . And he has been immersed in this stuff since he was three months old.  I would just focus on read-alouds and read and read to him - but he only sits for a book or two at a time.   

The one big exception to everything is signing time (so thankful!!).  He can watch those videos over and over and knows TONS of signs.

So...what do you think???  Keep playing videos?  Skip whole word and just keep trying the Reading Bear approach (we've been doing step one for forever)?  Stop teaching reading and only read-aloud (even though it's two books at the time...)?  Do something to help with focus - what??  Diet (it's nearly vegan)?? Supplements - what??  He has awesome physical skills and started totally walking at 8 months-old...I've always wondered if that's been a negative for reading - but he did get three months of crawling in (started at 5 months).  Advice?? Insight??!  Success story? Lol!  Help!    

Thank you!!      

[Korrale4kq]

IMO, 2 is so early to see much progress. I would keep going, doing what you are doing. Working with that has worked in the past. And if by the time he turns 3 and there is still no progress switch tactics.

I am teaching a 20 month old at the moment. And I was thinking about this the other night.... I am just not seeing any progress now. It seems like nothing is working.  But the reality is If I think back to when I started teaching my son, I thought the EXACT same thing. And now when I look at how well he is doing at 3.5, I think I must have been crazy not to have thought it was working.

[PokerDad]

There's not a whole lot I can add here, but I think your efforts have to be producing something, even if it's latent.

What stands out? It seems your 2 year old likes musically oriented videos. Baby Signing Time is great with that - though I personally opted to do far far less of that series (basically none at all) to focus more on spoken language. This might be where the hang-up is for you: a lot of gestures to communicate, no need or desire to do it any other way. (??)

If you could find musically oriented material to do the EL I think maybe it would be a match made in Heaven. The only thing I can think of like that is the Weatherall stuff.... but it's probably a bit beyond a 2 year old? (we watch very little of it at this point at 15 mos)

[waterdreamer]

Have you tried teaching before bed? Both my boys do better at night because they are a bit tired so the are calmer and want to avoid bed time. Also we do a lot of learning on the potty or while eating.

[TheyCan]

Yes, we definitely take advantage of meal times and bed times (and in the car, etc).  I'm with the boys full-time and it's totally learning focused.  My two year-old has never even seen anything on a TV/computer screen that isn't a video/program strongly advocated here.  I don't doubt that he's learning something - I just don't think it's reading - !  As far as musical videos, many of the reading ones have music - YBCD, Monki See, etc.  He's just doesn't seem to care at all if any of them are on or not...But don't get me wrong - he has logged plenty of hours over the last two years of seeing the screen.  For eighteen (long) months straight...YBCR played during breakfast.  Often, it was played a second time during the day as well.  I kept progressing through the videos even though there was no sign of knowledge because I figured he knew it and was totally bored.  I also went through the whole curriculum of LR.  All the other reading videos have been played sporadically.  I gave up on flashcards awhile ago because he would immediately get away from me or just would not look - no matter how much cheering .  (All this sounds terrible...but there really is tons of play the rest of the day - !)  As far as the sign language, I guess I didn't worry about it because I did it with my older son and I didn't see anything but positive results (not an early talking, but right on average and talking great as a 2 1/2 year-old.)

I keep thinking how - during the second half of his first year, when all other babies are just stationary and look right at their parents, he was super physical and running all over the house.  He was crawling at five months and we missed that time of him just being on a blanket and having all his attention??  Also, I always feel guilty that I've never been capable of giving him the complete attention that I was able to give my first son.  Our household was so peaceful when I just had one - !  We would read books for hours and had no distractions at all.  I haven't been able to give that to my second son .  He does have all of me for a couple hours here and there though (when my older one is reading/playing silently)...but he still wiggles all over the place.  Anyway...I'm up for any ideas or insight.  I just keep telling myself "input, not output."   Thank you again!

[linzy]

I agree with Korrale, and not worry about the output until 2.5-3. If you are not certain that he still knows the letter sounds, I would run through the flash cards at meal or potty time or consider playing the Letter factory DVD once a week or at least the end song where they list the letters and the sounds. If you are sure he knows them well, then I would focus on the readingbear approach (maybe in combination readingeggs with you mousing?). Sometimes for really active little guys like that doing a bunch of things for a few minutes each is best (so maybe something scripted like The Ordinary Parent's guide to Teaching Reading for 5 minutes, then later 1/2 of a reading eggs lesson, then later watching one sub section of readingbear, and then before bed or a nap/bed you read to him and he tries a page or a few words out of a book on his level.

Not to be controversial, but another option would be bribing him to show you what he knows. I sometimes bribe my kids with a "tea party" with tea and a cookie. Then at least you would know what he knows so you can meet him at that level.

Another thing that helped with my active one was the Peter and Jane books. They teach each of the 1000 or so most common words one at a time and repeat them 14-40 times per a book.

Most importantly don't give up, when he gets it and it clicks, all of this input will pay off and he will move along that much faster.

[mom2bee]

Don't give up! I would focus on input still, but try and switch tactics. You need some fast, physical games. How is he with simple games? Simon says, Hide and Seek, or any physical game. I would try and tailor the program a little more to his style--he is a mobile boy, so let him be mobile!

You should see about teaching him simple command, movement games and use his love of ASL to your advantage.
--Make a sign and let him pick the card with that word on it. For example, do the sign for bear and let him pick from the words bear, duck, cow, etc...
--Play an animal game where you ask him "What does this animal say?" and hold up the animal-word.
--Print out the names of his toys and have him line them up on their words before a crash and smash derby

You want to play fast and furious with him. If screens aren't working, scale them waaay back. Play the reading DVD's only 10 minutes at a time or 2x a week. Stop driving yourself to feel stressed, you are doing a great and fantastic job. Read a few pages of an alphabet book each day, exaggerate the letter sounds. What else can you focus on besides reading? He may not demonstrate reading until much, much later. But why focus on the one thing he doesn't want to do just yet?

Can you get him interested in animals, vehicles, geography, mathematics, counting, or anything else? If you find a subject he is partial too, it may be easier to get him to read and demonstrate whether or not he is reading to you through a material that he really loves. He may not want to read 'mommy' 'elephant' 'yellow' etc...But maybe he wont be able to resist reading words related to something he loves! Find out what he's crazy about and use that as your 'in' to reading words for counting, colors, ordinals, adjectives, etc...-

Hang in there mama! You can do this! Remember, if it isn't fun, you aren't doing it right!

[Frukc]

TheyCan,
your learning routine seems to be very screen-based. I would recommend to focus on dialogic reading (not just reading aloud; search google and youtube) and all kinds of conversation.
I recommend also this article
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/1/342.full.pdf+html
good luck

[Korrale4kq]

Because you have shown so much visual stuff and you feel like he doesn't respond to it, have you had his vision screened? If his vision and even hearing are just fine I would focus on input and give it 6 more months.
And I feel that this happens to me a lot, as soon as I write that my son can't do something, or as soon as I stop teaching him it and take a break he shows progress. And more often ha. Not it is a huge leap of progress.

[allthatiam]

I've got a super active little toddler (17months) who started walking etc early and is not particularly interested in screen time either. My situation is fairly different (only just started teaching reading, he is younger & he is delayed in spoken language too due to hearing problems) but I've been experimenting with a couple of things that factor in his activity level and seem to be working. I only play little reader in short 2-3 minutes bursts, and sometimes swing him up and down etc with the cadence of the language. A couple of days ago I put sticky labels on the fridge with his favorite foods written on them and have been getting him to point to them  and see what food I bring out (this one is proving a real success). He is in the very early stages, and I am not expecting great things, but at least he is beginning to show an interest in print (pointed some writing out to me the other day).

It sounds too like he might have begun to actively resist reading? I like Mom2bee's idea of finding his 'passion' and introducing reading again indirectly through his interest.

And it is amazing what children learn 'latently'. I keep on thinking of a post I read the other day where a mum said she  gave up teaching sign language to her baby at 7 months because she didn't see any progress. Then 5 months later, after no signing during this period, her son suddenly signed 'fish'.

[Mandabplus3]

Ok I am going to buck the trend here. You need a break!  stop teaching NOW! Have a break from everything for a few weeks. Yep everything. Why? Well simple because you are stressed about this and even if its only on a small level your clearly very right brained child IS picking up on your vibes.
My suggestion for what it's worth
First stop all the videos, reading, lessons, flash cards for at least 2 weeks.
Then since your child is clearly very physical, aim your energy on physical skills. Swimming lessons ( daily) running, jumping, kicking, balance, park days, gymnastics classes, DANCE! Spend a few weeks working to your child's strength and then you will see some good, strong ability and you will be in a much better frame of mind to continue teaching.
Your child seems to be almost wholly right brained. Impulsive, physical, easily distracted, not seeming to focus and enjoys signing. Very right brained, no logic left. Based on this he is probably bored by a typing he has seen more than twice. The signing is different because he has something physical to do while he watches. Even if he isn't doing it he is thinking he is doing the signs.
You need to find a way to continue presenting NEW information FAST in a way that leaves you child no opportunity to show you what he knows. He can't yet, he doesn't understand what you want.
I saw little progress in my kids before school but they even to this day learn anything SO much faster and SO much easier than others. I can attribute this only to their EL training. Even though I did way less than you I am still seeing the benefits today.
Have faith mummy, just have a little break. Relax and refocus then go back to your mantra IMPUT IMPUT IMPUT 

[Arielz]

Hi....

You are doing a great job.  I think at the end of the day be glad that you have time with him. Continuous learning and efforts are more important. 

My oldest was like your youngest.   She at 2 did nt grasp anything.  I started at 6 months.  I went through so much math, reading, science slides.  Always assuming she knew but knew underneath that she might not be grasping.   Anyway, she is 4 and a 1/2 now and I think it was my continuous efforts that did it.  I started with letter sounds at a little over 2.  She learned basic reading.  Then I added phonics rules.  I did try Daddude's slides, showing her the doman way, few at time but she did not grasp them.  Then, when she got 3, I pulled them out again but this time asked her to read them and helped her a lot.  She can almost read now but still had hard time with bigger words.  We have done starfall.  She is good at math because I teach her abacus.  She also knows science very well again due to good resources and constant efforts.   But if compared to early learner s here, she might not scale well but among her peers she knows a lot.  So good luck, you are doing a great job.  I am sure your sons journey will get easier.   

Now, my youngest, uses the ipad for cards.  I show him written cards also.  At 2 he has a better grasp of letters.  He doesn't read yet.  I show him readingbear also.  I showed him math, he doesn't like the slides anymore but watched till subtraction.  I guess every kid is different.  He loves mommy and him time.   I think the guilt about not spending enough time with him than my first is compensated because Sis spends a lot of time with him.  I tell her she is his teacher and mommy .  She reads to him in the washroom and endlessly talks to him.    He was an early walker and crawler while my oldest was a late walker....even then he grasped the slides more than she did. 

Regarding bribing, try stickers.  If he sticks through the lesson, let him have one.  Be stingy about stickers so they think they are gems!   Please excuse my errors, I was in a hurry, too many chores to do before the kids get up.

Good luck dear! 

[Kerileanne99]

Yep, I think I am going to have to agree with Manda on this one...take a break from the learning videos. It sounds as though he may have even learned to tune it out completely. It is the perfect time to do it anyway, Autumn, when the weather is cool and you can focus on being outdoors and physical activity.

I can completely understand not wanting to drop EL altogether for too long, but there are many ways to go about it, right? I would probably go for a big nature study. Try to spend as much time physically outdoors. Gather autumnal 'specimens' in the park like leaves, acorns, rocks, insects. Get an armload of books from the library for fun reading about nature. Try to identify the leaves and plants. Lay on blankets outside for reading and cloud formation identification. Have your older kiddo work on a nature journal.

Above all get them asking questions. What differences do you see? Why are the leaves changing color? (BTW, one of the best books for Fall is the Let's Read and Find Out series 'Why Do Leaves Change Colors in the Fall?')
All of this with as much physical activity as possible.
Then you can try and reintroduce some videos later, but honestly? If my kiddo had sat through the same video so many times (even if it was just on in the room!) I would not have gotten her interested in it at all:(

It sounds as though your youngest may need more interactive learning. Do you have an IPAD? If not, this may well be the way forward for him. I have no reservations in saying that I think IPads will/have revolutionized learning!

I also REALLY like board games starting about that age. I think it is entirely possible to teach up through about 2nd grade math using nothing but board games and card games. Long before my LO was ready to sit in a chair for any length of time or write, she was doing math that would later allow her to really accelerate in math. If you youngest is really resistant to reading at the moment, I would regroup and devote that time to active math/numeracy games. If you have a trampoline, especially a child's version with a handle, this is a great place to do it!

[NPLight]

I teach both my twins (25 months old now) and I’m getting completely different results. The girl is already reading and flying through everything I show them. The boy was reading sightwords when we started a year ago, but suddenly he stopped and has not read anything for months. The only thing he tells me happily is the alphabet and solfège in Little Musician. If I ask him “how many coins are there?” he will always say “six!”, what colour is that? “blue!” (always). One would say he’s not learning anything. When we start lessons he flies away, or stays but in constant motion, never looking at the screen, almost never looking at books, always in motion! However I know he memorises books (sometimes he finishes my sentences when reading) and he focuses more on iPad games, so we count and count and count again on the iPad, look at some sightwords and books… things like that. I want to believe he is learning something, or at least making connections… Sometimes I also get discouraged, but I go on. I think that seeing the success with my little girl helps me to think we are on the right way. It’s only that my ds will blossom later…

Don’t give up and keep us informed!!!

[teachingmykids]

I didn't start very early learning for of my kids  like a lot of people here but I did start much earlier with my youngest (18 months) and been working with my middle child (Just turned 5) on reading for over a year and there is nothing to show for it as far as progress. None of my kids just took off in reading. I can get very discouraged when I come here and kids much much younger then my kids are way ahead of them in reading and math. I know that nothing is wrong with my kids and that once they do learn something progress can be much more rapid. My oldest wasn't an early reader and reading was a lot of work for her when she was learning but now she is an excellent reader. She often struggles or doesn't seem to get something and then all of a sudden she is great at the things I was worried about. I think a enriching environment does make a difference but just because some kids did not pick up on certain things for a while doesn't mean something is wrong. My middle child is not a natural reader but he has plenty of strengths. His ability to comprehend is really high, he knows a lot of information about lots of different topics and he has an amazing memory for many stuff just not the words he just sounded out

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