Not working this time - 2 years of EL and not reading.

[TheyCan]

Thank you so much for all the practical ideas and encouragement!  I want to quote and respond to so much - I know I'm leaving stuff out!  I'm really eager to get started fresh and mix things up!  There have definitely been breaks here and there in the past - vacations, craziness, etc or times where I've tried to just focus on speech - but I've never really moved onto something totally different.  I've never thought of him having too much screen time because it's absolutely never on any other time when he's awake and I try to make it interactive (sign the animals, point to the body part, etc and LR is pretty interactive anyway).  However, he's getting less overall focused time with me during the day because I have to focus some on his older brother's homeschool - so it seems the amount of screen time needs to be adjusted for that (he won't watch anything while we do school...wants to be right with us).  With my first son, he actually didn't watch any of the videos we own very many times because he picked up on everything so quickly.  I couldn't get new material into the house quick enough.  Anyway - I'm ready to try new things and let it go . 

Today we started out by going for a walk/run outside (we normally wait until afternoon).  I then had my older one read in a different room while I did lots interactive play with my youngest.  I got out my container of wood blocks that had written words on and casually used them in play.  I found he was much more focused - I don't know if it was the exercise, time of day, or no distractions. I thought all this would make for a total flop of a homeschool day for my oldest since we "lost" our morning - but we still managed to do our full load and my youngest has been sleeping for 2 1/2 during his nap so far !   I will keep trying to think of things that are physical for my youngest.  If there's a good list of more ideas somewhere -  please let me know!!  I'm not the best at spontaneously coming up with learning games. 

This has all been a good reminder to stop being so focused on reading in our EL time.  It's crazy to think about how many topics I had covered with my oldest at this point - I think we had already read nearly all the basic juvenile non-fictions books at our library and his was counting to 20 in four languages somewhere around this point!  Ahh - I need to stop looking back and just move forward!  Thank you so much for all the ideas!

We have an ipad, but the only app he's used on it has been starfall (and LR) and he's bored of it.  Any other ideas? I never looked into it because I was trying to limit screen time - haha!

Your child seems to be almost wholly right brained. Impulsive, physical, easily distracted, not seeming to focus and enjoys signing. Very right brained, no logic left. Based on this he is probably bored by a typing he has seen more than twice. The signing is different because he has something physical to do while he watches. Even if he isn't doing it he is thinking he is doing the signs.
You need to find a way to continue presenting NEW information FAST in a way that leaves you child no opportunity to show you what he knows. He can't yet, he doesn't understand what you want.

Can you explain this more?  I've always been intimidated by right brain learning.  We have Twiddle Wink and I've read on the topic a long time ago...but still don't have a grasp.  So...is it basically total trust on my part that he actually takes in something that's shown to him fast? If I only had my first son, I'd be a totally believer in it.  However, my second son has made me doubt and I hate to use up any more time presenting things that I don't think are being taken in??  Ugh - I get confused.

I will report back !  I'm off to label food in my frig - Lol !  I'm also going to redo our daily schedule.  Please share any more physical type learning ideas!  This forum is great as always !  Thank you!

[Mandabplus3]

Hey now that sounds better! I think you might be almost in the right place now 
So the most important thing you need to know about right brained learning is that your child knows what you think. It permeates through everything you show and do with him. You boy knows you think he is physically awesome so that is what he shows you. 
The doubt you hold effects his intake of knowledge and would definitely effect his ability to output that knowledge. You have to have faith that what you are doing IS working. ( I doubted at times and over  the years I have had that slapped back in my face over and over by my kids! ) when you have faith your child believes he is capable and then he  absorbs it. His learning environment needs to be fun, loving, relaxed and joyous for him to absorb it all. I think you can do that now. I wasn't sure you could before and that's why I said take a break. the environment they learn in is AS important as the information you present.
So some more physical ideas for you.
Trampoline counting
Word races, run then read relays
Outside cubby house reading nook
Labelling the constructions you build
Walk around with a little white board and write any word he is interested in
Ball games with skip counting
I can BET money he will sit in the boot of the car to read a book
And also under a blanket with a torch too
Aim for new experiences every day. These new experiences will open his eyes and satisfy his curiosity  and allow you a chance after to re present old information as you need to.
When he turns 3 start him on phonics. He may be missing one vital key he needs to begin independent reading. In the mean time use fridge magnets to sound out 3 letter words for him. This is you doing it for him, don't expect a 2 year old to do it for you. You are exaggerating the sounds as you read words like cccccaaaaatttttt cat.
Be sure to have lots of fun! And check out Pinterest for more ideas on physical learning games.

[Korrale4kq]

I highly recommend the Meet the Sight Words apps. There are 6 in total. 3 are just flash cards, the other three is a simple quiz game.

There are studies that show that children who do some cardiovascular activity are more focused and open to learning afterwards.

There are also studies that show that children need sleep to retain things. And that kids will retain more if they nap after  they learn.

[linzy]

This whole conversation reminds me of some games I used to play with my elder son when he was a little younger than this. I made flash cards with animal names on them (or other things like play fruit). Then I would put the animals all around the room and give him the flash cards with the names and he would race to put the card with the right animal. Or you could do it the other way and lay the cards out on the floor and have him help the animals "find their home". We also made a game with word endings and beginnings called "phonics concentration". You have all the endings on one side and the beginnings on the other and you pick one of each and sound them out. If it's a word you keep it if it's not a real word you leave them.

[TheyCan]

Thank you so much for the responses and ideas!  I just wanted to share that I've noticed such a huge change in just the last two days !!!  Seriously, his attention span for reading books has been so great!  I feel like it was a huge chunk of our day today!  We have been starting each day with getting lots of exercise outside and it's made a difference in both boys.  My older son then jumps into whatever quiet activity (mostly reading books, Rosetta Stone, etc) and I can give complete (well, kind of) attention to my younger son - who is WAY more focused!  Yay!!  Then, I spend his nap time and bits here and there working with my older son.  I think my older son has been doing tasks like handwriting more quickly.   

We basically flipped our day because we used to only get exercise in the evening (which we are still doing!) and I mostly focused on my older son's learning in the morning and worked with my younger one in bits here and there.  In the afternoons, my older son would be playing with toys and/or kind of wild by then...and my younger son was totally distracted.   

Anyway!!  I'm VERY happy because we read TONS of books today and had a lot of fun together outside !! I'll be trying out the ideas you guys listed!  I know it's only been a couple of days, but I just wanted to share . 

[Skippy]

Your DS enjoys SINGING TIMES, so go for that.  Also what I did years ago with my DS.  Child would sit on the floor playing and I would read to him.  I would choose words that I wanted him to learn and I would spell them as I read. Example,  Green Eggs and H-A-M- said Sam I am.  Lots of sentences i spelled one word.  He actually started picking up (i.e. learning) while playing on the floor.   I sometimes tell people that he learned to read without looking at the book.  I also made audio cassette tapes (it was the old days) and played them while he was eating lunch.  Try a few minutes at bedtime.  Also see if Big Brother could teach him something.  Little Brothers sometimes want to know what Big Brothers know!  Try "rewarding " Big Brother for "helping" Little Brother.  Another thought.  There's TONS of clips on YOUTUBE> .  The clips are between 15 seconds to 3 minutes mostly.  You can watch the clips on YOUTUBE and see what types of clips appeal to him.  I have downloaded clips on spelling, reading, colors, science, math, in several languages..   I bought REALPLAYER 16 and have downloaded several hundred clips over the past 4 years which I have made into 45 DVDs for my grandchildren.  I hope that these ideas help.  All the best.-- GrannySkippy in Canada

[GeniusExperiment]

TheyCan, I am so happy to hear things are much better. I was a bit sad reading your initial post because it sounded like your little one wasn't having fun and nor were you enjoying it, and it is such a precious time. And even Glenn Doman says if the baby / toddler is not enjoying there is something wrong. Your little one sounds a lot like mine in some respects, she was crawling at 5 months and walking at 8 months (actually, let's be honest, how can you have a walking 8 months old and say no sign of EL progress ;-), only an EL person would say that ;-) ). She is always on the go and hence impossible to read books or watch EL videos with her. What I do is when I show her stuff on the iPad I let her stand so she can cruise and hop up and down, or I put things for her to touch and explore in front of her, even if it distracts her from the screen. But physical development is also a big part of EL, especially in the first years, so it's great you now go outdoors more, see it as a strength not a weakness that your little one wants to move, that's great!

Also it's very harmful to compare siblings in that way, especially when one comes out more favourably, and as others said, surely your child feels everything that you think. EL is very important, but there are differences between children in how they respond and their learning style (maybe you read the story of Sophia and Lulu in Batlle Hymn of the Tiger Mother)? Some kids are more independent explorers, others enjoy being taught, so maybe with the first one your style simply suited better and it doesn't work with the second one. I am sure you are doing great and there will be results from all the EL you're doing, but definitely make sure you are both enjoying your time together and there is laughter every day. I sometimes get nostalgic during the day and ditch EL, because I think I could play games and chase my little one through the apartment and make her laugh, or we can do flash card which she finds interesting but they don't make her laugh, and I want to hear her giggle and enjoy life. Not 24/7 obviously, but laughing together, jumping, running around is the most important part of the day. Reading we just sneak in during the quiet moments like bedtime, early in the morning, maybe nap time or mealtime. You got lots of great advice here. I hope it continues to go better!

[Skippy]

Hi, I think that you are onto something by taking a morning walk.  If exercise helps, think about a trampoline for example, check out wayfair.com and look under outdoor trampolines, although many of them are for indoors.  it's also a lot of fun!-- GrannySkippy

[TheyCan]

Hi, I think that you are onto something by taking a morning walk.  If exercise helps, think about a trampoline for example, check out wayfair.com and look under outdoor trampolines, although many of them are for indoors.  it's also a lot of fun!-- GrannySkippy

I've been thinking about a trampoline for awhile - we've just been using the bed!  I don't like my older one doing that anymore though - .  And yes, his big brother is extremely eager to teach him anything and everything.  He also reads books to him a lot - but usually has just as much success as me !   

TheyCan, I am so happy to hear things are much better. I was a bit sad reading your initial post because it sounded like your little one wasn't having fun and nor were you enjoying it, and it is such a precious time.

This made me laugh because he's having nothing but fun ignoring my lessons - LOL!  If something is playing on the TV, he's jumping off the couches .  He's playing all day - we have huge art area, toy area, Montessori supplies/environment area, etc (the YBCR video showing was early in the morning before everyone else was even up and the LR was at lunch or before nap - and then a second video may or not be running some other random time in the afternoon).  And we normally spend at least one or two hours playing outside everyday, but it's always been in the evenings - never in the morning.  Sorry I gave the wrong impression! 

Also it's very harmful to compare siblings in that way, especially when one comes out more favourably, and as others said, surely your child feels everything that you think.

See...I've been totally avoiding comparing for two years....that's why I didn't write until now.  Otherwise, I would have written a year ago!    I'm totally up for changing methods.  I just didn't really know the first method (might) have been a flop until not too long ago when it was finally obvious (I assumed he was still taking everything in and not showing what he knows). 

[TheyCan]

Okay - so, I went back and read my title and I'm a bit ashamed of it!  I need to see if I can change it.  My husband would think I was insane!  It should be "Not working this time - 2 years of EL and few signs of READING."  Of course, there are many signs of EL working....I'm sorry for the crazy shout out of EL not having any impact!! 

[Mandabplus3]

Hey we all do it. Sometimes posting the strangest of things gives you the very best ideas.
Gee the best post into the forum has a name that it almost entirely irrelevant to the content...but we couldn't change it because none of us would know where to look for the gold! I just added a little to the end of it to make sure people searching later would find it.
Robert Levy of Saxon fame came to talk to us in a book review thread! 
Glad to hear you are making progress! 

[Frukc]

Currently I am reading newsletters of TestingMom, and she says:
"Constantly feeling guilty and inadequate is part of being a parent. If you aren’t worried that you aren’t doing enough for your child, you’re probably not paying close enough attention! "    (It follows that you should feel guilty also if you are not feeling guilty because it means that you are guilty.)

I started EL when my first kid was 1.5 years old, and she already was very advanced. With my second kid, I started math at 3 months and other flashcards at 7 months. When he was nearly 1 year and 10 months I found that something goes wrong; he was not advanced at all.

Maybe you remember my posts half year ago here. My son was not delayed; he was just average. Now he is advanced, I think.

Now he is 3 years and 8 months and I can say with responsibility: yes, EL did not work until his 1.10 years. EL without interaction and without a lot of talking does not work. It is waste of everything. Our EL started to work when I discontinued the use any ready-to-use materials and started to observe what he is interested, and what works and what does not work, and started to prepare original materials for him.  A lot of thinking about his personality and interests.

For example, math. With my first kid, I started simple quantity recognition when she was 1.5. Later I did also Doman math and LM but she was not much interested. Although she was able to count to 12 in two languages until she was 2 years old, she understood just "3" since she was 2.5 and "4" since 3.5. At 4.5, her math ability exploded and now she is rather advanced.
With my second one, I did physical math flashcards since 3 months, LM since 7 months, he watched both LM courses. Since his 2 years I show him math every day; mach more as I did it with my first kid. And he is exactly at the same level as my first kid was when she was 3.8. He follows the same steps of development as my first kid did. So I think that at least his 1.5 years of EL were just waste of time.

I did also a lot of art and EK flashcards. I do not see of feel any results. I see results from my other, later activities - dialogic reading and daily conversations.

Best wishes

[GeniusExperiment]

Frukc, may I just add that I love your last post? It sounds so right. I have been thinking about what you wrote for days because it really hit home. My little one is very advanced but at the same time I have started to feel she is not enjoying the educational DVDs and LR at all. She loves singing with me, interacting, playing games, even flash cards, and listening and also all the physical stuff but she is so bored by YBCR/Monkisee DVDs and LR. Little Musician is alright when the clap along song comes, otherwise she shows no interest either. But she is very advanced now (started walking at 7 1/2 months, at 9 months now doing a lot of things that they aren't supposed to do till 18 months or so) but I had this gut feeling I should just forget about the software and DVDs and just play with her interactively because that's what she loves. I had this instinct but so many people here report success with the products that I didn't want to give up. Now after reading your post and thinking about it, I think it's probably right that the part she doesn't enjoy is a waste of my time, and if I focused on the parts she enjoys she will progress much faster. If you have any other pearls of wisdom to share, please do :-).

[kmum]

Do you teach with only with videos or the computer screen?  When my dd was younger I printed off all if her BrillKids flashcards laminated them then fast flashed them because I found that she learned much more quickly from a printed card than when seeing them on the computer or tv.

[TeachingMyToddlers]

My kids loved the BK Flap Binders at that age and I would print off new words every Sunday night for the most part. If you are taking him for a walk, what about writing some words in chalk for him to discover on your path? Have you tried making some personalized LR files and/or printing them out into books? Kids LOVE to see their own face in a book. And I agree with the others, I would label everything in the house.

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