Xmas idea and question regarding Soroban

[Kerileanne99]

In looking for challenging new games and 'toys' to supplement our EL Xmas, I came across the following product that looks like a lot of fun:
http://www.fatbraintoys.com/toy_companies/fat_brain_toy_co/aba_conundrums.cfm

We live in Texas, and although I would love to send Alex to Soroban classes, it just isn't an option here:) the closest thing we have is an Aloha math program two hours from here, that will not even consider accepting a child under five...although we are planning on enrolling her then.

For those of you with experience in learning/teaching Soroban, I guess the question is this: is a 'toy' such as this a good idea, provided it comes with a parent prepared to use web resources/videos/and books to teach her how to use it beyond the 'puzzles' in the game itself? Obviously, I am not thinking of using it to go in depth, but rather as a tool to greater understanding/exposure in the same way that we combine many other approaches and techniques.
Or would it be better to avoid it altogether for now?

[baz]

I have this one.
It is not a product to teach soroban (absolutely nothing about the +-/* fundamentals of soroban) but rather for game of logic. Pretty tough for young kids I would say ..

e.g. Question #30 :
Clue 1: The product of the digits is 24.
Clue 2: The 1's place has twice as many beads as the 10's place

the answer is 64.

BUT
you can most definitely use the soroban for teaching soroban. (teaching material will have to be sourced elsewhere) The size is pretty good and the color is kinda awesome!:)

[TeachingMyToddlers]

Keri- I say go for it. I *really* wanted to spend on a ridiculous amount of money on a teacher size soroban and completely planned to, but the hubby wasn't exactly on board with that idea and had some alternate opinions before I just did it.  Soooo....I had him help me modify a melissa & doug abacus into a soroban until my son can use a standard soon (which should be very soon). It was a pain and I probably would not recommend it although it gets the job done. It would have been much easier to just purchase the one you are looking at which I had also considered.

You can start out with MathSecret, which has a free program for 10 minutes a day. You don't need any more than 10 minutes at that age on it anyway, IMO. If your DD doesn't "go for it," then try to learn the basics yourself and just teach her on your own.  If you just try to teach her what you can at home between websites, books, and printables online, she will go into the class with a huge headstart IMO. (FYI, the MathSecret "free" soroban is total garbage, don't waste your money. It's far too tiny to be of any use to a little one.) I still feel that it would be best to use a soroban with the same *shape* of beads from start to finish to encourage the ability to mentally image it sooner with consistency across training (books, software, physical soroban all having the same the traditional bicone bead shape) but my husband can think of better ways to spend $150. ::sigh::

[TeachingMyToddlers]

And I also wanted to ask, will they be checking birth certificates? Highly doubt it. Enroll her when you think she can pass for 5 or just get crafty with her birth certificate.  I had a friend who "corrected" hers at 15 so she could earn some money at Burger King over the summer.    I have no shame in sharing that I considered doing this at one point to enroll my daughter in a particular preschool,  but it turned out they were willing to bend the age rules and make exceptions. Ultimately I did not send her, but I am totally prepared to do what I have to do to give my kids the best opportunities I can. All's fair in love, war, and parenting.

[Mandabplus3]

Done a little age bending myself I had a 4 year old in a level one gymnastics class with a minimum age of 6! I told the administration after she had been attending class ( along with her sister) for 6 months that if they ever bother to change their stupid rules then I will be able to pay for both of my kids that attend their class rather than just paying for 1! Guess what? They preferred to give me the class for free for the year than change the rules so I could pay them! Stupid!
I am quite sure I will do age bending over and over! I won't fudge a birth certificate but if they are taking our word for it then so be it! My only concern is making sure the insurance covers multiple ages...kind of important for sports like gymnastics.

[Kimba15]

Def go ahead and teach the soroban. I used the Showme Soroban software and to be honest it is good but no great and heaven forbid if it does not work on your comptuter like it did mine Good luck getting your money back but lucky for us my hbby got it to work on his. She may be able to manage the small beads I think Sophia could have managed the small beads @ 3 1/2. Since A is not that far off and you think her fine motor skills are there than go for it.

[Kerileanne99]

Thanks everyone for your imput!
I have decided to go ahead and start with this one, as I think she will really enjoy it...just a simple introduction, then we will work our way up to a proper Soroban as a reward:)

In fact, one of my biggest concerns in the beginning was the fact that it is so similar to RightStart colors, was the deciding factor. I think with careful instruction this particular Soroban may well act as a bridge, as it is still in keeping with thinking in terms of fives, tens, and units etc...it may well even reinforce the RS lessons very well. However, I think there is some room for caution. Luckily, she has always seemed to enjoy incorporating various manipulatives, concepts, and methods. I guess we shall see, but at that price I find it worth it!
Worst case, we only use it for logic puzzles and move to a proper Soroban sooner.

Baz- thanks for the sample problems

TmT- I love your home-made Soroban! And thanks for the heads up on the MathSecret materials as well, I have been investigating different programs and videos to try. Do your kids find it strange to work both on a RS abacus and a Soroban, or do you find it useful for understanding?

Kimba-other than the issues with the ShowMe software and the customer service, do you like the program itself?

Thanks again everyone for your help

[TeachingMyToddlers]

Initially I was very against the idea of using both and having to reteach them on the soroban later.  However, AAngeles shared how she used both with Ella, sometimes even at the same time and she said here was  no confusion. Even though  I was skeptical, I took her word for it and sure enough, it's worked out well for us to do both. This was a radical change in thinking for me because I did a lot of assuming that my kids would get confused, but just like learning languages it has not been an issue. With my son, we pause the slides as they are presented in the lesson and we often make the numbers ourselves on both the soroban and the RS abcaus, side by side. We also watch it at regular speed once, as well. It helps drive the point home.

This teacher uses both too. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/tgOS7ods7M4&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/tgOS7ods7M4&rel=1</a>

I am going to pick up a keyboard number pad because I think it will be easier for the kids to use with this kind of program. I liked ShowMe Soroban a lot because it demonstrated the finger movements, but at the moment I like free better.    They have a free trial, but installation was a huge pain in my experience. Once I got it going it was fine.

Hope that helps!!

[Kimba15]

The program is okay. Sophia likes it. I personally think it would work better as an app rather than software. Your child really needs to know how to use a touch pad on a lap top or a mouse. You can still get results so it does get the point across but you will need to be interactive the whole time with them as there are timed games and levels to get through but I think Miss A would get it just fine. There is a talking bird that is annoying and I think it is a bit clunky so here it is.

Overall Customer service 1/10
Product                         6/10

[joyb]

How can I find if a Soroban tutor is in my area?

[TeachingMyToddlers]

Kids can be so different! Mine loved the talking bird, Peety, and would ask to "play the birdie game."  I think you can turn the bird on or off? Maybe I am wrong on that, not sure. I think the majority of programs do have a timed component, mathsecret does as well. 

[lzp11]

Great Christmas present Keri!

Has anyone tried the app Adventure Abacus?  https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/abacus-adventure-free/id568745586?mt=8

It's not a proper soroban by any means but I'm wondering if it might be a bridging game that would help to work towards the soroban at a later stage.  I find my DD is more willing to try new things on an app for some reason.

I downloaded the free version and it has been great to teach me the elements of simple calculation using an abacus of this style - if anyone knows more about Soroban than me and has seen this app I'd love to have confirmation that what it is teaching is correct.  Or if there are any major reasons not to use it.

I have found soroban lessons in our area that start at age 4 - only 6 months away and I think she might be more ready for classes by then.

Thanks!

[TeachingMyToddlers]

Keri- I was looking at schools in Chicago tonight (I have family there) and this one has locations in TX, as well. Not sure how far that is from you, but here you go-

http://www.playabacususa.com/locations.

& one more because I'm bored- in Austin. http://www.abacusbraingym.com/Abacus_Brain_Gym/Parents_View.html ....which led me to this page- http://www.abacusbraingym.com/Abacus_Brain_Gym/Store.html but it doesn't look like the online store is active yet. I am intrigued! I would love to see this program.

[Kerileanne99]

TmT-
Thanks so much for the links! I will have to do a bit of investigation. They both seem to be franchise situations, and although they both stipulate age 5 requirements, one or both might be more flexible than ALOHA.

Maybe they can at least give me Information on their programs and I can get back to you neither location is further than about 90 minutes drive, so definitely possibilities.
Karma for the help

[Korrale4kq]

Izp11 that app is amazing. My son took to it immediately. We are working on making sure he uses the correct finger/thumb to move the beads.

I do have a question for those familiar with soroban. Will it matter if my son uses his left hand to move the beads? He is presenting as dominantly left handed and it is the hand he chose. Or should I try and encourage him to use his right hand? He does write with both hands by choice but does everything else like eating, throwing etc left handed.

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