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Author Topic: How will these kids fit in academically in school?  (Read 18912 times)
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nhockaday
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2009, 07:30:07 PM »

If you do decide to homeschool, would you wait until the child is 18 to send them to college?  I know there are AP classes now so kids can go to college with 48 credits, can homeschoolers get AP credit? 

I guess I thought if my son went to a private school that he would skip a grade or two.  If I do homeschool I will of course keep teaching him things, but I'm wondering if you can do AP credit and still have them enter college early, with a bunch of credits. 

I want my son to fit in with other kids, but I want to make sure that he is challenged.  If he is ready for college material early, then it would just make sense to start on it.


I homeschooled my last 2 years in high school. You are allowed to go to college here (it was at our local Technical college) and take dual credit courses. I took 2 math classes and got both high school and college credits at the same time. I was 16 when I took my first college course smile

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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2009, 07:49:24 PM »

At this point, I don't have a stance on homeschooling my son. I will wait until the time comes (or is a little closer) to evaluate the options and his knowledge against the curriculum for the schools.  I will not, however, hold back his learning in anyway between now and then to help ensure he 'fit in' the typical sub-standard education system.

I wanted to comment regarding skipping grades in private/public school.  Think long and hard about doing this - even if your child 'seems' mature enough to handle it. There's a lot more to a grade level in pub/priv school than academics.  I myself was in GATE all through elementary and skipped two grade and went into a private highschool.  I know other who have as well. While I was able to handle the school work, I wasn't ready for the social, hormonal and other pressured interactions. Plus I while my fellow students were getting their drivers licenses, I was still 14. There's a HUGE difference between 14 and 16 in so many ways. Teenagers want to grow up so quickly anyway - to have the added pressure of being completely surrounded by older kids - I missed a lot of interaction with true peers.   While I ultimately did fine, it's not an experience I would be quick to recreate for my child. 

It is not easy to predict the future, so I'm just focusing on the present ~ Doing the things that excite my child, growing his curiosity about the world, playing and having fun. 

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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2009, 10:13:07 PM »

I, on the other hand, loved being ahead of the game. I tested out of some classes in high school so I was taking all the AP courses that I could in addition to senior courses my junior year of school. I loved going to the community college when I was supposed to be a senior. It made me feel kind of special to be done with school even though I knew that I wasn't any smarter than anyone else.

I guess it depends a lot on the child's emotional maturity. Some kids will thrive working along side of adults, and some kids won't. We will have to just play close attention to our children and their tendencies. They will help guide us. smile

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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 12:11:55 AM »

If you do decide to homeschool, would you wait until the child is 18 to send them to college?  I know there are AP classes now so kids can go to college with 48 credits, can homeschoolers get AP credit? 

I guess I thought if my son went to a private school that he would skip a grade or two.  If I do homeschool I will of course keep teaching him things, but I'm wondering if you can do AP credit and still have them enter college early, with a bunch of credits. 

I want my son to fit in with other kids, but I want to make sure that he is challenged.  If he is ready for college material early, then it would just make sense to start on it.

I've thought about this.  My answer is, "I'd want the kid to wait until 18."  Why get the kid out in the college environment, if anything more corrosive to young characters (and young minds, to a certain extent) than school, when he's still an extremely impressionable young teenager?  And when there is so much more to learn?  I look at it this way: when I was in college, I was very disappointed that I could not major in a half-dozen subjects.  I thought that, to be really well educated, I should be familiar with a little of everything (and more than a little of many things).  If a kid is already capable of doing college-level work at 12 or 15, that's another 3 or 6 years in which to become really educated, as opposed to just getting a diploma or its equivalent.  Who cares about a high school diploma?  That's virtually meaningless.  And what is the rush about going to college?  College means specialization (i.e., majoring).  Well, I don't care how brilliant a kid is, or when he started reading, he just hasn't gotten the most solid possible foundation in general knowledge by age 12, or whatever.  He is no doubt much better educated than most 18-year-olds, but who cares?  What's the rush?

I guess that, with a really well-educated teenager, you might need to hire tutors.  Well, if you live near a college, you could do that, and for not too much money.  (This is another thing I have, a long time ago, thought a lot about.)

I suppose there is the worry, then...how will these kids fit in academically in college when, at age 18 or whenever they start, they're better-educated than most college graduates?  Hmm...same question, different age...well, let's just say that a good college is really challenging to, and will benefit, anybody.  And, as long as the student hasn't already "mastered" (at the college level) some subject he wants to study in college, there's plenty to learn at college.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 12:13:46 AM by DadDude » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 12:57:41 AM »

I guess none of us really know what college will be like in 15 years or so.  I mean, 15 years ago the internet barely existed.  I know there are some interent classes now, but maybe then there will be tons of them.  I guess a student could take internet college classes when they were ready, and like DadDude said, just learn about a bunch of things and not just one major. 

Things change for us month to month so even thinking about what we will do in 3 years is somewhat silly, nevermind 16 years.  By the time my son is ready for school I think he will also be ready to give me his opinion about what he wants to do. Now, I just wish he would sleep through the night   big grin

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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2009, 02:25:08 AM »

Anyone interested in a bit of history - here it is - a book that compiles research done for over 15 years on over 300 preschool homelearners who went to enter mainstream educational institutions. Did preschool home learning really have any effect on the children's classrooms performance, social life or behavior?

Answer to that question : Kids who Start Ahead Stay Ahead, by Dr. Neil Harvey
http://www.amazon.com/Kids-Start-Ahead-Neil-Harvey/dp/0895296144
($3.49 new as of today)

 
Also in regards why homeschool is a better choice for some parents see:
The call to Brillance by Resa Steindel Brown.

Hope this helps

Gloria
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« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 02:23:23 PM by GloriaD » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2009, 06:38:38 AM »

There's an easy way to homeschool, which means that the exact curriculum in your area is covered, so if ever you sent them to school, they'd be up to speed (even though well past that).  In Victoria, australia, it's called Distance Education, and it covers what the State public system learn.  It's cheap, and most cost is the fortnightly posting work in. Keeps the government happy as you meet the guidelines, yet you can teach your own stuff on top of it.

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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2009, 06:04:20 PM »

We should move to Australia! smile

I agree with daddude. It is sad that by the time that our children reach college, they will have to specialize in one or two particular subjects. I think that it is the Japanese who prefer a broader education. I don't know which is better -to know a lot about one thing or to have a small knowledge of a lot of different things.

For me, it was hard to pick just one thing to study. I love many different subjects and envisioned myself becoming a teacher so that I could teach the subjects that I enjoyed. At the same time, I didn't want to be limited to just teaching. I wanted to be an astrophysicist, a bioloist, and even a doctor (stupid ER). Wink

I think that is why I am 26 and just now finishing another nursing degree. I have spent the last 8-9 years in college studying a range of subjects from astronomy to women's literature. Every class that I take makes me view the world in a different light. However, at the same time, I am getting older and feel the need for a more advanced degree. Who wants to do bedside nursing for the rest of their life? My education so far does not count for anything because it is not in one subject even though I can converse about business or anthropology if I needed to. That being said, it is time for me to focus on one thing.

I wish that I could have had my "season" of general knowledge learning earlier in my education, however, because subjects like philosophy and economics usually aren't taught at the secondary level I would not learn have learned them until college. Once I got to college, there were not enough of general education requirements needed to satisfy my hunger for knowledge. I believe that this is where homeschooling comes in to play with my children. I will teach them everything I can about the subjects that I have learned in college before and during their high school years. One of the goals in this mission will be to prepare them to decide what they want to spend the rest of their lives doing. This, in my mind, can only be accomplished if they are exposed to the greatest variety of subjects as possible.

What will happen when my children reach college age? They might not even choose to attend college, and this is okay with me along as they are happy and can support themselves. If they do choose to go to college will they be ahead of their peers? Of course they will because they will have already been taught the general subjects usually taught for the first two or so years of college. Maybe at this time they can work on being emotionally more mature, or maybe they will be fortunate enought to attend a college specifically designed to challenge advanced students.

I know at my community college they do allow home schoolers to take classes. This would be most ideal if my children want to take more classes, in say, chemistry since I will probably be unable to create an entire chemistry lab in my garage or basement. This will give further opportunity for them to see what the real world is like and allow them to know what working with people of different ages is like. It will also be interesting to see what role that the internet plays in education during the upcoming years. Education as we know it probably will not be the same.

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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2009, 06:15:07 PM »

Anyone interested in a bit of history - here it is - a book that compiles research done for over 15 years on over 300 preschool homelearners who went to enter mainstream educational institutions. Did preschool home learning really have any effect on the children's classrooms performance, social life or behavior?

Answer to that question : Kids who Start Ahead Stay Ahead, by Dr. Neil Harvey
http://www.amazon.com/Kids-Start-Ahead-Neil-Harvey/dp/0895296144
($3,49 new as of today)

First, Gloria, let me say that this book does at least give some reason to believe that many children who go through the Doman program will be doing just fine in school when they are the ages of the kids in the study.  So, I'll grant you that.

Gloria, I hate to be negative, but I got a copy of the Harvey book and, while I'm not done reading it, I don't find it particularly persuasive.  At least, the study he reports on isn't.  The study design seems substandard.  First, there is no control group.  This is extremely important, because one of the blindingly obvious explanations of good performance among Doman learners is that the parents of Doman kids have higher IQ or academic preparation than average.  So the results really have to be compared to a similar group of families, families with exactly the same range of intelligence, well-education, and above all, motivation to teach their children.  Because, after all, it's the method that's being tested here, it isn't the wonderful effects of having motivated parents.  Surely nobody will doubt much or will be very surprised that having motivated parents will lead to smarter kids.  So, compare parents who aren't using Doman methods, who are still very concerned about their children's education, with those who are.

Second, the study is based on a survey in which there is an obvious potential for self-selection bias: who is going to write in to an Institutes researcher to say that their Doman-trained children are doing poorly?  A lot smaller percentage, anyway, than those who write in to brag.

Third, the survey questions are incredibly vague.  "How is your child doing socially?  Specifically, how are relations with peers, teachers, other adults?"  Choices: Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor.  Then: "How is your child doing intellectually?  (a) In reading?  In math?"  Same choices.

I am very sure that many parents who go to the trouble of going through the Doman program may also be unusually inclined to boost their estimate of their children's abilities.  It's the Lake Woebegon effect--you know, in Lake Woebegon, all the children are above average.

Quite frankly, I am very suspicious of a group that goes out of its way to portray itself to the general public as a scientific institution (The Institutes for the Achievement of Human Potential?), and has not, in its 40+ years of existence, published ONE SINGLE peer-reviewed study of the effectiveness of their methods.  This is not to impugn the methods themselves, but it is to impugn the scientific pretentions of the Institutes.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 06:18:39 PM by DadDude » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2009, 06:30:29 PM »

There's an easy way to homeschool, which means that the exact curriculum in your area is covered, so if ever you sent them to school, they'd be up to speed (even though well past that).  In Victoria, australia, it's called Distance Education, and it covers what the State public system learn.  It's cheap, and most cost is the fortnightly posting work in. Keeps the government happy as you meet the guidelines, yet you can teach your own stuff on top of it.

I don't know, but it's my impression that there are free distance education programs in at least many states in the U.S.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virtual_schools  Some homeschoolers are a little annoyed with them because they are directly competing with homeschooling...which doesn't quite make sense to me.  They're competing with homeschooling curriculum providers, yes (these schools provide the curriculum for free).

I'm pretty sure we won't be using these services, though.  We might.  I'm sure we'll look carefully at them when the time comes, but having to do a lot of public school busywork, even if it is via the Internet, doesn't sound like fun.  Obviously, it depends on the quality of the curriculum/materials, but U.S. public school systems in general aren't too good at choosing materials, IMHO.  I'm sure it doesn't matter if the materials will be delivered online or not.  The same curriculum specialists will be making the choices, I'm sure.  On the other hand, maybe the fact that these virtual schools are having to compete with homeschooling methods will force them to make better methods available.

Obviously, things could be different in Australia.  Who knows, maybe we'll be able to "telecommute" for our education to the Aussie schools!  Outsourcing, yeah!  I'm sure the NEA would love that!

For us, I'm sure we won't be following any very strict curriculum, as I explained earlier.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 06:32:29 PM by DadDude » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2009, 06:35:19 PM »

Check out the claims of this Utah virtual school: http://www.k12.com/utva/teaching_accelerated_learners/

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« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2009, 08:07:12 PM »

Is it free as well?

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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2009, 08:09:00 PM »

OK,you have to live in Utah and it's free, my question is off. blush

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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2009, 09:06:25 PM »

We can all move to Utah! smile

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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2009, 10:27:54 PM »

Its good to see so many people thinking about home schooling as this is what we are pretty much doing already. smile


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