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Author Topic: Jones Geniuses vs. Touch Math  (Read 20133 times)
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Latreia
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2012, 05:28:07 AM »

Thx for the info.

Q for TM :
TM is only suitable for age 3 & above ?Anything for my 16 months bb ?

Q for JG :
The EL is USD80 for B.kids members & shipping worldwide is free ?
Is it suitable for a 16 m/o baby or would you recommend something else ?

Thx for your prompt reply !  nowink

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Kerileanne99
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2012, 06:23:05 AM »

Latreia-
I know that I paid the $80+ 8%sales tax + shipping...I don't know where they ship to...
One thing, I, like many parents, long ago decided that the age recommendations were merely guidelines- and since EL is still not very common, you will want to here from other parents with LO first...it may just kea that some of the manipulatives are choking hazards,and the rest of the program might work just fine. Regardless, whatever program you go with you will have to get creative and pick/choose what you can do at the moment. Some of the other parents using TouchMath might be able to tell you at what age they started it with their LOs!

One program I really like for my daughter (she's two) is the Singapore Maths EarlyBird set.  It is bright, easy to follow, and is VERY helpful for guidelines and ideas for what to teach...and A really isn't writing, so we still have to be creative...she really likes the set of ten 'math readers.' they are little, simple storybooks based upon traditional nursery rhymes for teaching math concepts.  Even these I have added some words to.
Here is the link:
http://www.singaporemath.com/Earlybird_Math_Standards_Ed_s/135.htm

The other thing that you might try is the book called 'Marshmallow Math' that you will find recommended by many members here.  There are loads of great ideas for incorporating maths into your daily life and ways of teaching young kids. I think that much of my two-year olds love of maths comes. From activities we have done from there. Personally, at 16 months, I would start there.  It will give you and you LO a great foundation to build upon in a few more months, and you will progress through a more formal curriculum more quickly!
http://www.amazon.com/Marshmallow-Math-Early-Young-Children/dp/1553953959

Hope it helps a bit!

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sbteach21
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2012, 03:39:31 PM »

I have found much success with the TouchMath program in homeschooling my children. The downloadable activity sheets are very reasonably priced, and there are thousands on the site to choose from and download instantly. They are broken down by age and skill level, and everything is reproducible. We have also found the software programs they offer do a great job of teaching early math concepts while covering the TouchMath method in a way that's been fun and engaging for my kids! I would recommend the program for anyone looking to build a solid math foundation for kids. Once they get the Touching/Counting Patterns down, the computation part of the process becomes clear and easy.

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Latreia
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2012, 04:48:27 PM »

Dear Kerileanne,

Thx so much for sharing with me. Just checked out singapore math; it's very expensive, right ?
Considering a book aout SGD 30, its almost Malaysian RM 75, then have to buy quite a few books.
Is there any cheaper alternative, as I am the only bread winner in my family
 blush
 THX...

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chrisatjonesgeniuses
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2012, 05:10:33 PM »

Hi all ,
Great thread.
In addition to the savings to our Partners in Brillkids, we at JG offer free regular online seminars with Dr Jones & because we are not a large corporation we take pride in the fact that we know our customers & are available by phone or email to answer your questions & offer you our personal support in your childs developement. Our other math & reading curriculum are designed to take you from Early Learning to College entry preparation ( SAT / ACT In the US ) in a seamless fashion.

Just to reaffirm our pricing under a new structure the DIGITAL Matrix Math or Threshold to Reading is available before the formal product launch later this month exclusively to Brillkid members, with the 20% discount at $55.99...  
plus $7 shipping in US , $15 WORLDWIDE.

Printed Version with  Brillkids Discount $80 plus $7 shipping US...World wide cost vary from $28 Canada, $36 Europe, $57 Asia & Australia

If both are bought at the same time there is no shipping charge for the second kit  ie
Digital Matrix Math & Threshold to Reading   Digital version with discount $135.99
plus $7 US or $15 Worldwide.

Quite a saving for our ever growing worldwide family.

Regards ,
Chris,
www.jonesgeniuses.com

« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 05:13:51 PM by chrisatjonesgeniuses » Logged

lzp11
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2012, 09:00:16 PM »

Hello Chris
That offer sounds very interesting!  Can you give a bit more information about this as I'm very interested but not clear what is involved or included. There does not seem to be any info on your website?
Thanks!

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Kerileanne99
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« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2012, 09:29:12 PM »

Latreia-
I am not sure what the covererted price would be, but all you need to start out is the EarlyBird A textbook for $23.50.  I also purchased the workbook EarlyBird Activity Book A for $15.30. Remember, it isn't like your LO will be writing in in right now, so you will be using as a guideline.  I then bought the set of 10 little paperback readers to go with it, that I highly recommend for ittyBittys, although I do find myself adding to them: these are the Kindergarten Math readers, but go along nicely with the book and workbook. They were $33.00.  This is more than enough material to last you for a very long time as it has so many different additional concepts like measuring, weighing, length, pattern, as well as basic counting,adding and subtracting, a bit of fractions even. So the total is under $75 US, but I don't know about shipping or additional costs where you are...

If money is an issue at the moment, I would hugely recommend that you buy theMarshmallow Math book and then go with a few inexpensive manipulative, or make your own from things around the house...the book shows you how and gives you ideas for additional lessons...in all honesty, I don't think A would have been ready for amore formal program, and she now has a great foundation from our 'math play'.
This way you can get started, do more research into what math program will eventually be a good fit for you and your child, and maybe have a chance to look for good deals her on BrillKids.  If you watch the Buy/swap section, people sometimes sell programs they purchased either new or gently used!
Feel free to PM me if you want to know specifically what we use out of each of several programs (we have JonesGeniuses EL, Singapore Math EarlyBird, RightStart Math, LM, MathPlay and Marshmallow Math books to think off top of my head) we have at the moment, but all kids differ. You will see some kids here that are absolutely, shockingly amazing in this Forum!

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Dr Miles R Jones
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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2012, 10:55:16 PM »

Latreia,

The age to start reading or math instruction is when the cerebral cortex is activated, average age 2 years old.  However, those who are stimulating the learning abilities of their children can activate the cortex much earlier, at even a few months old.  Jones Geniuses have long offered the materials of choice for parents wishing to start their children as soon as possible and speed up the learning curve.  You can definitely start a 16 month old child on the Jones Geniuses Early Learning program in either the reading or math kit, although preferably you should do both. 

 We have not yet launched the Digital kit promotion, that is why you will not find it on our website until Feb 20, 2012 but we are making the promotion available to Brillkids members right now!  Regular (hardcopy) Threshold to Reading kit is $100,  Matrix Math is also $100.  The new Digital kits have everything in the regular kits.  You just have to print out everything or use it off the computer.  You will print the texts, storybooks, flash cards, posters, practice sheets.  The price on these Digital kits is $69 each.  Brillkid members get a 20% discount which makes them $55. 

We began this initiative to save our international clients shipping costs.  It costs $30-$60 to ship our kits internationally.  With our Digikits it only costs $7 US or $15 for international shipping anywhere in the world.  In addition, if you purchase both kits we will not charge any shipping for the second kit.  That is quite a saving!  Just follow the instructions on the DVD that will show you how to print our your materials.   If you take it to a copy shop just make sure you tell them to print the materials in black and white as color copying can be prohibitive.

We will have the new coupon code up within a couple days for our Brillkids members to order through the website.  Until then email or call ([email protected] or 817 718 8822) to order and get your 20% Brillkids discount.  We are really excited about the number of parents on Brillkids who have activated their children's cerebral cortex very early via the practice of Early Learning!  Keep it up!  We love hearing about your success and your feedback on all the different resources available.

 We will setup a free online presentation this month for those who want to learn how to activate the cerebral cortex early.  Stay tuned for details.

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sonya_post
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2012, 02:48:41 AM »

Latreia,

We started JG Matrix Math when my son was 16 months old. He is now 18 months old. He can count forward and backward to 20. He can start at any of those numbers and count both ways. He is starting to understand one to one correspondence. Touch Math would be a much easier program to use for you. I don't think it is an easier program initially for the child. For a 16 months old the double dots would be confusing.

We took the JG numbers - well actually we made some, laminated them and then attached velcro dots to them. That way the kids (we had 3 using it, one with Down Syndrome) can add and remove the dots, count them as they place them on without having to write. It seems that physically touching the dots really helps with one to one correspondence. We used the Touch Math Computer Demo for our 4 year old, it was difficult for him to get the hang of placing the dots on the numbers. But I suspect, over time, it would become easier.

JG Matrix Math is very parent intensive. We have moved the the 4 year old onto Math 3. This isn't something where you can drop your child with the curriculum and hope he'll get it. Obviously, at this age, you aren't doing that, but you might want to think about that as your child gets older. I'm not sure I'd switch back and forth. The other thing I noticed is that the steps in JG Matrix Math program lead you to the steps in the Math 3. Your child is learning much more than just adding and subtracting. In Math 3 you start the fundamentals of memory training.

If you are considering Singapore Math - I recommend that you check out the Mathematics Enhancement Programme at http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/primary/default.htm . It is a free program out of the UK, based on the Hungarian model. It is very similar to Singapore but I think better. However, Singapore does have the best story problems ever!  There is a yahoo support group for the program that we found very helpful. Even if all you did was read through the teachers books, it would be time well spent. A bright later 2 early 3 year old could use the year one materials. You can start an early 2 year old on the reception materials. This program is also very parent intensive. Like Singapore, if you just use the workbooks, you miss the whole point. Here is a comparison written by a parent who had used both. She is from the Yahoo support group.

Since you have used Singapore, can you give me some specific
 differences between the two programs and why you changed? I was
 showing a friend MEP and she said it looks much like Singapore,
 which her kids are using. Since you have changed, obviously it's
 not totally the same.

Linda,
I will try. I really like Singapore. I have been using for about 6
years now, and it has served our family very well, imho. I think I
will still think that Singapore has the best word problems I've yet
to see.

Singapore challenges to think about math concepts and apply them. It
does not involve rote learning. It works on teaching you connections.

MEP also does that, but goes even further. It introduces concepts a
lot earlier than Singapore does. For example, I introduced my Y1 son
to inequalities today in lesson 7. My twins almost in Singapore 2
have not seen those symbols yet. In fact, I've had to work with my
dd who is doing Y5 of Singapore, and doesn't really remember having
been introduced to them. She understands the concepts, just hasn't
been introduced to the symbols.

Today my dd was working on lesson 7 of MEP 5, and working with
putting inequalities on a number line. Singapore doesn't really even
touch this.

MEP allows students to really investigate the concept that there are
ways of arriving at the answers in a way that Singapore doesn't.
Even in the upper levels of MEP, hands on manipulatives and concrete
objects are used to explain abstract concepts.

Just the lesson of the different ways of writing one. You won't find
anything like that in Singapore. It is really stimulating mentally.

In Y2 the students were filling out a graph with the rule of there
were 3 more chestnuts than acorns. Sometimes they had to figure out
the number of acorns, sometimes the number of chestnuts, and for the
last section, they could make up their own numbers. Then they were
asked what the rule was, how they could express that rule (at least 3
different ways), and to write an equation for it. They were using
addition and subtraction sentences, and inequalities to do this. My
dh basically noted they were being taught functions. You won't find
this type of depth in Singapore.

Singapore is a great program. It just isn't as deep. It doesn't
challenge them to think as much. Now maybe, if I used the TM's -
which I don't, it might be more similar. But the textbook and the
workbooks are pretty much straight math, although they do teach
strategies, and as I said, so far their word problems are
unparalleled, imho. However, students can go from Singapore 6 into
Algebra. It prepares them that well. There are a couple of areas
that are not covered, but easily taught, and may be covered in the
beginning of an algebra book.

But my kids doing MEP are already doing graphing, exponential
notation (not covered in lower level Singapore), discussing set
theory, natural numbers, etc. I am amazed at what they are being
exposed to. I know my dh (the science/math guy) is impressed with
this program.

I do confess we have had some crying and gnashing of teeth, and the
"I can't do this" but they progress beyond that and realize that they
can do this, and they are not asking to stop. I think they are
really being challenged in a good way. Maybe I should have started
them a bit lower than I did, but time will tell. I think they can
handle it, but I may be wrong.

Christina 

  

« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 02:52:21 AM by sonya_post » Logged
sonya_post
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2012, 02:53:50 AM »


Latreia,

We started JG Matrix Math when my son was 16 months old. He is now 18 months old. He can count forward and backward to 20. He can start at any of those numbers and count both ways. He is starting to understand one to one correspondence. Touch Math would be a much easier program to use for you. I don't think it is an easier program initially for the child. For a 16 months old the double dots would be confusing.

We took the JG numbers - well actually we made some, laminated them and then attached velcro dots to them. That way the kids (we had 3 using it, one with Down Syndrome) can add and remove the dots, count them as they place them on without having to write. It seems that physically touching the dots really helps with one to one correspondence. We used the Touch Math Computer Demo for our 4 year old, it was difficult for him to get the hang of placing the dots on the numbers. But I suspect, over time, it would become easier.

JG Matrix Math is very parent intensive. We have moved the the 4 year old onto Math 3. This isn't something where you can drop your child with the curriculum and hope he'll get it. Obviously, at this age, you aren't doing that, but you might want to think about that as your child gets older. I'm not sure I'd switch back and forth. The other thing I noticed is that the steps in JG Matrix Math program lead you to the steps in the Math 3. Your child is learning much more than just adding and subtracting. In Math 3 you start the fundamentals of memory training.

If you are considering Singapore Math - I recommend that you check out the Mathematics Enhancement Programme at http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/primary/default.htm . It is a free program out of the UK, based on the Hungarian model. It is very similar to Singapore but I think better. However, Singapore does have the best story problems ever!  There is a yahoo support group for the program that we found very helpful. Even if all you did was read through the teachers books, it would be time well spent. A bright later 2 early 3 year old could use the year one materials. You can start an early 2 year old on the reception materials. This program is also very parent intensive. Like Singapore, if you just use the workbooks, you miss the whole point. Here is a comparison written by a parent who had used both. She is from the Yahoo support group.

Quote
Since you have used Singapore, can you give me some specific
 differences between the two programs and why you changed? I was
 showing a friend MEP and she said it looks much like Singapore,
 which her kids are using. Since you have changed, obviously it's
 not totally the same.

Linda,
I will try. I really like Singapore. I have been using for about 6
years now, and it has served our family very well, imho. I think I
will still think that Singapore has the best word problems I've yet
to see.

Singapore challenges to think about math concepts and apply them. It
does not involve rote learning. It works on teaching you connections.

MEP also does that, but goes even further. It introduces concepts a
lot earlier than Singapore does. For example, I introduced my Y1 son
to inequalities today in lesson 7. My twins almost in Singapore 2
have not seen those symbols yet. In fact, I've had to work with my
dd who is doing Y5 of Singapore, and doesn't really remember having
been introduced to them. She understands the concepts, just hasn't
been introduced to the symbols.

Today my dd was working on lesson 7 of MEP 5, and working with
putting inequalities on a number line. Singapore doesn't really even
touch this.

MEP allows students to really investigate the concept that there are
ways of arriving at the answers in a way that Singapore doesn't.
Even in the upper levels of MEP, hands on manipulatives and concrete
objects are used to explain abstract concepts.

Just the lesson of the different ways of writing one. You won't find
anything like that in Singapore. It is really stimulating mentally.

In Y2 the students were filling out a graph with the rule of there
were 3 more chestnuts than acorns. Sometimes they had to figure out
the number of acorns, sometimes the number of chestnuts, and for the
last section, they could make up their own numbers. Then they were
asked what the rule was, how they could express that rule (at least 3
different ways), and to write an equation for it. They were using
addition and subtraction sentences, and inequalities to do this. My
dh basically noted they were being taught functions. You won't find
this type of depth in Singapore.

Singapore is a great program. It just isn't as deep. It doesn't
challenge them to think as much. Now maybe, if I used the TM's -
which I don't, it might be more similar. But the textbook and the
workbooks are pretty much straight math, although they do teach
strategies, and as I said, so far their word problems are
unparalleled, imho. However, students can go from Singapore 6 into
Algebra. It prepares them that well. There are a couple of areas
that are not covered, but easily taught, and may be covered in the
beginning of an algebra book.

But my kids doing MEP are already doing graphing, exponential
notation (not covered in lower level Singapore), discussing set
theory, natural numbers, etc. I am amazed at what they are being
exposed to. I know my dh (the science/math guy) is impressed with
this program.

I do confess we have had some crying and gnashing of teeth, and the
"I can't do this" but they progress beyond that and realize that they
can do this, and they are not asking to stop. I think they are
really being challenged in a good way. Maybe I should have started
them a bit lower than I did, but time will tell. I think they can
handle it, but I may be wrong.

Christina 

  


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linzy
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« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2012, 02:59:59 AM »

I have not worked with touch math, but have had nothing but good results with jones geniuses. Here is a video with my son right after he turned 4 doing the addition worksheet:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/KXQ3KfWiv6Y&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/KXQ3KfWiv6Y&rel=1</a>

We have definitely had our struggles. Specifically my son is not one of those kids that if really motivated by time so we have trouble meeting the time guidelines to be a "fact master". He initially found the worksheets that you do for warm-up boring (and still does, they are the sheet you see above), but he only spends 4ish minutes on addition, subtraction and multiplication each so now he just plows though it, we call it his "math vitamins".

The most important thing though is whenever we struggled or had questions Dr. Jones was available on phone or through e-mail with hints, tricks or extra worksheets to fill in the gaps. I haven't videoed my son lately but I do really feel he is excelling with this program. I don't know many other 5 year-olds who have completely mastered their math facts (addition, subtraction and multiplication through the 12's). He even taught himself to cross multiply.

In addition the JG kits starting with Math 3 have a memory code component where they learn a system to easily memorize almost anything. That part of the program is my sons favorite he calls it his "spy work".

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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2012, 03:21:53 AM »

Sonya_Post-
Thanks so much for the info on the Mathematics Enhancement Programme! Being from the US, I had never seen this! Even though we are using several programs with A at the moment, I think this has something additional to offer.  Really appreciate the tip!

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« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2012, 04:12:51 PM »

Wonderful thread here, some great commentary, information, and best practices being shared! For those who may be interested in learning more about the TouchMath Program and the multisensory TouchPoint approach, I would encourage you to take advantage of our free DVD Teacher Training loan program. The packet you receive contains free materials, a teacher training manual, and an informative DVD that details: Touching/Counting Patterns, addition, subtraction, skip counting, multiplication, and division using the TouchMath computation strategies. Learn more and request your materials here: http://www.touchmath.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.ttraining

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« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2012, 06:17:10 PM »

Thanks to all those how have responded to this debate, feed back is very important to us at  Jones Geniuses Accelerated Education .
   
Another  FREE EARLY LEARNING SEMINAR will be held online later this month We will be alerting you to the time & date very soon.



Regards ,
Chris
www.jonesgeniuses.com

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« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2012, 03:49:01 AM »

I am not trying to knock Touch Math (please let it be known that I haven't bought either programs yet), but I find the Touch Math using a rather manipulative marketing scheme that I see as a play on people's ignorance.   I am talking about the "research" that supports their claim of how great and wonderful their program is in comparison to other programs. 

The "research" is laughable.  None of it is peer-reviewed or published and most of it appear to be papers that teachers or undergrads submitted  on how they saw Touch Math improve their children's abilities in math.   My guess is that all of these teachers received this product free in exchange for submitting their "research."  The authors of these papers did not gather enough substantial data to support their conclusions.  One paper only used four students.   Another paper only gathered data from her specific class.  There were no controls.  Some of the "results" were merely biased conclusions of what they perceived as success.  There was very little if no quantitative data that would be looked at seriously by an researcher.   

For me its not about if the program works or not as much as it is about their integrity and motive.   If they really want to sell themselves, they wouldn't have to make up all this "research" business because their product would itself.  I wouldn't touch Touch Math with a ten foot pool.   Okay so I might have knocked Touch Math, but nothing irks me more than manipulative marketing schemes.

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