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Chris,

This will be my last post on this. Since in particular, there is no way to respond that will not appear to be flaming, and since it was partly my fault the original thread was pulled, I've no desire to enter that territory again. And since my original post was intended to be inflammatory, offensive and sarcastic, I've no desire to have my current/future comments to be misconstrued. And, considering this is a forum for a variety of people, I've no desire to be an offense that drives them away from these forums. This is not the place for this kind of conversation.

First let me say that as a homeschooler we not only absorb evolution from everything science that is available, we intentionally teach evolution. My son has read all of "The Origin of the Species" not just bits. We have read Dawkins, Gould, Shermer, Ridley and others. So we do not shy away from these things nor am I ignorant of the arguments or the positions of current church denominations. Considering many people here have belief systems that would be inline with these churches and scientists, it makes it difficult to answer without giving offense. So I won't. Or at least I will try not to. 

On your previous point: Social Darwinism and evolutionary racism are both currently out of fashion, which is not the same thing as having been refuted, given the premises. There is absolutely no scientific ground for saying, given evolution, that once the human species has arrived, that all portions of that species must henceforth evolve at the same rate of speed. What scientific basis could there be for saying that all humans must continue to evolve? Why can't some of us get stuck here, in much the same way that the chimps got stuck there? Evolution is inherently and necessarily committed to racism. Because you suggest that it should be rightly understood your way does not mean that it must be in any scientific way. How, given the premises of evolution, can it be understood "rightly" and what can that possibly mean?

Consider a fairly recent book "A Natural History of Rape". Cover blurbs refer to rape as "one of the most hideous scourges" and a "loathsome crime." Which at one time was how the species necessarily developed. So we haul the moral outrage in at the last minute, do a little handwaving, and voila! rape is now wrong. But back in the day, we couldn't exactly say that. Which really just proves that it makes it very difficult to declare anything morally "wrong" for certain. Consider our friend Mr. Dawkins again.

The theory of evolution is also a problem because it does not account for the rational preconditions of theory itself. If materialistic evolution is correct, then all my thoughts in my brain are merely chemical reactions, and there is no basis for connecting them in any way to the outside world. But knowledge of chemical reactions is knowledge that comes from the outside world. If my thoughts are merely chemical reactions then I have no reason to believe my thoughts to be true, and this would include the truth that my thoughts are merely chemical reactions. Raw matter and energy cannot give an account of itself. Accidents do not explain themselves. If you come into the kitchen and discover a puddle of milk on the floor, and you want to know what happened, you don't ask the milk. It doesn't know. It is the accident. This remains the case even if you identify a cluster of bubbles on one side of the puddle as a prestigious university.


EDIT: I do not here mean to imply that all evolutionists are racist or rapists. But merely that because we have waved our hands and declared our moral outrage does not mean that there is anything in the premises of evolution that would support your moral outrage. And should the Social Darwinists ever make a strong comeback - what could possibly be the argument against them?


 

The video doesn't change what he actually said but what he meant by what he said. In any event, the issue of alien intelligent design is not the point. My point is that you have no idea how life came from non-life. You may only guess. And that is a huge guess. You make the assumption that life did come from non-life and then you extrapolate from there. As Mr. Dawkins said - you don't know, all you know is what it must have been.

The question I have is at the end of this video it calls taking someone's comments out of context an evil. If it supports a means to my end - how does one call it evil? Where goes one get the authority to call things evil? As Dawkins said in his bus tour, "There is probably no god, stop worrying and live your life." And if in my life I want to take quotes out of context - what is it to you? Evil is a moral judgment. If there is no god, Dawkins rightly declares morals to be what I determine. So, what if I want to believe in creation or eugenics or pink elephants with fuzzy bunny slippers, or taking quotes out of context. Who cares?  You are just a rock.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BoncJBrrdQ8&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/BoncJBrrdQ8&rel=1</a>

Can you define tantrum for me? It's kind of a vague word. Learning is frustrating and it isn't a bad thing to be frustrated. We just have to work through it. So, maybe helping her. Often they won't take help directly as they want to do it for themselves but empathy followed by help works well. Acknowledge her feelings. So you can say, "Oh, that is soo frustrating!" but say it in the same tone that she is using. "That makes you so mad!!!" If she has stomped her feet - you stop your feet. In sales they call this building rapport.     But then say in your normal mommy voice, "But if we do it like this, it will be easier. See...Now you try." Just keep this up or change the activity if she is just not getting it.

You can hear all the kids in my house say, "Oh gracious, that's frustrating!" My little girl with Down Syndrome couldn't say gracious so she would say "Oh, Gracie!" Which melts my heart. That is a cue for someone to come assist. Or just observe the situation. You don't need to teach her to challenge herself. She is doing it all the time which is why she is frustrated. She isn't capable of doing all that she wants so she gets mad. But she is doing a lot. The goal here is to help her understand (eventually - not now, she is still little) that we all have to work at things. Start by never telling her she is smart, but by praising non-stop the effort and work ethic she has. How she continues when it is frustrating and hard. Hard work is a blessing, She is a hard worker. Good work should come freely from your lips. And reminding her when she accomplishes something that it was hard work. "Wow, look at that! That was hard work! Good Job!"  Remind her how it used to be. "Remember when you couldn't even....Now look at you....!!!" 

        

I've been thinking of posting pictures. You'd change your mind if you saw what 30,000 books looks like. I USED to decorate with books.........

Let me know if you find anything good. Word to the wise - get there early so you get a place in line. People are insane at these things. Bring your own bags/boxes and maybe someone to watch them while you scout books and move quickly. People will steal the books already in your boxes and they will snatch stuff right out of your hands.

Have fun!

DadDude,

 Thought I'd respond here instead of sending you ad email and bump the thread at the same time. After badgering my son for a sample for a couple days and asking to pick a story, he decided that he might be too busy to do it. However, if you don't get enough responses, I think I'd like to try again since I'm that kind of nagging parent. 

Sonya

If your son knows the phonograms and is sounding out words, then he is able to read readers. What he lacks is fluency. That will come with lots and lots of reading - or saying the words when blended in Reading Bear.  One thing I did with my oldest is have him find words on print. So if the word is cat - have him hunt for the word in a book or newspaper or anything else you can find. This is basically memorizing what the word looks like. That is what you do when you read. You don't sound out every word, you brain just knows it. We sound out words we've never seen before or don't have locked away in our brains. The other thing you can do is teach spelling at the same time. This is very helpful. I use phonogram tiles which I've attached. So if you are working on cat - then have him make the words: sat,mat, fat, rat, bat, hat, pat, vat. Let him discover how easy this is. Similarily, if working on cat you can then work on: cab, cad, cam, can, cap,

As far as your youngest who is just a few months younger than my son, I can tell you what we are doing. We are using LR and we did a little YBCR, we use Reading Bear and Starfall, and whatever he feels like. Including phonogram tiles. We showed the 1st five Reading Bear slides until my son knew then cold. Sometimes he'd get bored so we'd pick the the rest of the presentation later in the day. Part of the issue is not boredom, the have to process the information as well. So they have to turn their head away to keep from getting more input. When I have a headache or am working on a difficult mental activity, I shut out input. I lock myself in a quiet room, I tell my family not to disturb me. They are no different. In the beginning, my son would simply repeat the words after the he was given the work in the presentation. Then he could sound them out quickly. Sometimes now, the words don't have to be sounded out. He just intuits the phonics. He is not reading books yet. Not because I am keeping them from him, he would rather be read to.

You will see  below the post is a link to the phonogram tiles. Suggestion: when I did these the first time I laminated them and attached a small magnet.In the hands of a two year old, they won't last long. The second time I made them I printed them on cardstock, used spray adhesive to attach the whole thing to a magnet sheet, then I laminated the top and cut. They are much more sturdy.

http://forum.brillkids.com/downloads/?sa=view;id=9146

I didn't teach anything I just organized - so yes, that part was simple. If you are using beginner Latin texts then more teaching is required. But the early stuff is pretty simple and shouldn't require more than an hour a week prep depending on how fast you go. I am of the opinion that Latin should move pretty slowly. If,  you choose a different route once you are finished with the beginner stuff, say using Wheelock's it is going to be a challenge for you are a teacher. As far as adding to what you have I can't be the judge of that. We only did Latin and my son recently took up French and is going to start Spanish as well. My goal was speaking and reading Latin fluently. You will probably have to consult other parents who are better at languages than I am. I know that aangles does 4 or 5. There are quite a few people doing three.

Sorry I can't be more help.

He told me he was conducting in his socks.

From our Early Learning House to Yours!

@ MrsObedih,

I have a daycare with just 2 children 1 part-time and picking another in May. But September the oldest two will both be part-time with one as an after school only. I don't advertise. It doesn't take long here to fill up spaces. I could have ten kids if I wanted them, I don't want them. All my parents knew from the beginning what I do. However, as I was merely a homeschooling mom, and hadn't discovered EL yet, my view of education has dramatically changed. The oldest one I have has just completed all the requirements for our 1st grade math. He was tested in preschool two be at year 2.2 in reading. That means he is tests at a second grade, second month of the school year. He is 4 months into preschool. This does have the mother a bit concerned as he has 3 1/2 years before he hits 2nd grade. But she doesn't want me to stop teaching him.

We basically run three different program right now. You have to be organized and go to bed early. If I am tired the entire day is shot. But both of my kids are actually here part time. However, we spend most of the day juggling naps, bus schedules, teaching, and meals. So, my days is planned out to 15 minutes increments. Anything I don't get done with my son during the day is pushed off to the evening.

@ TmT -

I had someone tell me that my worth on the open market on the East Coast as a nanny is about $75,000-$150,000 a year. I was a nanny in my early 20's that's how I paid for college. I thought the pay then was good. But as an Early Learning Specialist that can help a family get their child into the right kindergarten or possibly homeschool the children - there is a market. However, at the upper-end of the pay scale it is assumed you have no other life but your charges.

I'm not sure what Latin grammar intensive you speak of. All that we learned is basically on the Dowling Method website. If that is what you are referring to it wasn't hard really. My son was 11 when we started with Evan Millner. While I refer to the Dowling method, what we did is really a hybrid and more what the fellow spoke of on the review of Wheelock's at Amazon.

I have attached a Latin Shorter Catechism.that we used a lot. But all of the grammar is taught in Adler or D'Ooge. So it isn't so much brute memorization. I can't find it on his site, but Evan used to have files with basic grammar tables as sentences - it was pretty easy for us to memorize.  If I can find it on my external hard drive I will see if I can get Evan's permission to post it here as it was offered free when we used it.

This is an overview of our program.

3x a week one hour of Adler. Everyday 20 minutes of Swallowing the Dictionary. 2 times a week one hour in Lingua Latina. This took one year to complete. We also burned the MP3 files to CD so we could play them in the car and as back ground noise. One hour with Alder meant that he listened and repeated the phrases until he could pronounce everything correctly and he could write it down if spoken to him. I think getting him to write it down was very important.

After the first time through Adler ( we didn't do the exercises at the end of the chapters the first time through),We switched to D'Ooge. D'Ooge is simpler than Adler but it is not conversational. Evan put out D'Ooge after Adler so that is how we did it. Now I would do it the other way around. But since the Orbis Pictus is out, we may skip D'Ooge altogether. Not sure. When he went through D'Ooge I made him do the exercises. This took about 6 months. We kept using the Lingua Latina 2x a week and Swallowing the Dictionary. Again, we would do the previous steps but we added the exercises.

Adler x2. Second time through Adler he was made to do the exercises. Pretty simple stuff now as his ear has been trained. Now we are on to reading simple stories and prose in all Latin. Evan has a ton of stuff. It used to be free. But it is so cheap and the books are on the web, you can get a lot. He listens to them as Evan reads them, and he is reading them himself plus more dictation with conversation. This took about 5-6 months. I can't remember now what all we were using, but he was listening to a lot of Latin and writing a lot of it.

The thing that made the most difference was listening over and over and getting Latin into his head. Every lesson was on my son's MP3 player and he listened while he mowed the lawn, cleaned his room, and driving in the car. Sometime in year 3 he started dreaming in Latin.

He also joined Schola which you can find on Evan's site. It is a Latin only community with people from all over the world. Grammar doesn't have to be perfect and people are pretty helpful.

I hope this helps.

Daddude,

My 17 y/o son is interested in helping out, however, he would like to know if you have a deadline for the drawings. Thought I'd ask here so you don't have to answer the question a hundred times.

Sonya

I keep wanting to add another language besides Latin. I end up going back to just Latin. Perhaps because it is the only one I can teach. Anything else I will have to learn and I don't have time. That is not true - I could make time, but there are other things that are more important.

My husband taught Latin at the university level. He has had a  little French. Both my husband and my son can understand Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian. They cannot speak those languages really but if people are having conversations they can make out what is being said. If you start with Latin about 90% of the work needed for other romance languages disappears. I know we can teach other languages, and that the kids learn them quickly, but I've narrowed my focus for now: math, music, reading, Latin. We've just added Latin as I have to make all the files for it. We can add other languages later. You can't teach it all, so you have to pick and choose. I think making the decision about that is most important to meet your family's goals will help you narrow down what you really want. And, it will end a lot of wasted time thinking about what you should be doing, feeling guilty for what you are not doing, comparing yourself to others because of what they are doing, looking at curriculum because you might want to do - ya'll know what I'm talking about don't lie.  

 

We also have Rosetta Stone but we don't use it. Latin is highly inflected. While Rosetta Stone is great and complete immersion and just how you learned your first language,  the problem I've found is that you didn't really learn you first language this way you had a language coach all the time - your parents. You weren't guessing at meanings and grammar. However, It is a fine enough program for beginners. I know DadDude uses it. All of these are great beginning resources. Latina Christiana - Catholic beginners Latin - we used it. Latin for Kids is another that is a very good introduction.

Once you are past the introduction and in about 1st or 2nd grade this is the method we use: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~wcd/Latin.htm

There is another explanation of the method here, scroll down the the reviews of Wheelock's and read the first one: http://www.amazon.com/Wheelocks-Latin-Frederic-M-Wheelock/dp/0060783710/ref=cm_cr-mr-img


We use the Lingua Latina and Evan's products together. It will take 3 -4 years with daily practice to speak and read Latin fluently.