Khatty this also describes exactly how I was.  Before having children I was a nanny and worked in child care so routines were never a problem for me, I had a thousand things I could try but not one of them worked with my daughter.  I also found that in the end accepting and adjusting was a lot better than trying to force something that would just never happen.  We still did our before bed and nap routines but I stopped expecting them to result in anything more than quiet time.

If it's any consolation my second daughter was an absolute breeze and would regularly nap, go to bed without a fuss and even take herself off earlier than usual if she was tired.  So I really hope your next baby is the same!

I have also lowered my standards a lot since having my third and fourth children wrt the house.  I have a list of the things I want to get done on a daily basis and they are in a priority order so I start at the top and work my way down.  Some days I complete the list, other days I only get as far as meals, dishes, washing.  Personally I long for when I can get my household back to the standard I want but I look at others houses which are perfect but the children are not getting any attention and are unhappy and I remind myself that it's not forever and I would rather spend this time with my kids.

It is really such a short time.  My eldest two are at school and next year my third daughter will start pre-kindy one day a week and only 4 years ago I had one daughter at kindy and a baby.  It is the blink of an eye.  It helps having older children to remind me of this when I feel as if I am in a neverending cycle of sleep deprivation and housework that multiplies faster than I can clean it.

FWIW my non-sleeping baby is now a beautiful almost 9 year old that continues to amaze and delight me but is in bed by 8:30pm until 7:30am with no dramas! 

Sleep deprivation really is hard.  I understand how tired you must be by now.

I wish I had some really great advice about how to get your baby to sleep more but I don't.  The thing I've learnt is that all my children have needed varying amounts of sleep and if they are happy and healthy then it's not really an issue (for them).  My eldest child is like that and has always been a night owl and I was only able to get her to bed early when she was able to read to herself until she fell asleep.  My second daughter will just go to sleep when she is ready, usually around 7-7:30pm as does my third child. 

We did find that the period from 2-2 1/2 years to be the worst for lack of sleep with all our children.  I think they slowed down their growth a bit so weren't as tired as they were before.

My advice would be for your husband and you to prioritise getting enough sleep.  My husband and I have a deal where on weekends he sleeps in (since I am always awake when the children wake up and find it really difficult to stay in bed even if he is awake) and when he gets up I am free to go to bed and nap for as long as I need.  It's not ideal but at least it gets us through these first years of having little sleep. Maybe you can take turns to rest, or even if this is not possible are you able to get somebody else to care for your son while you catch up?

The only other thing I noticed is that my children were much more likely to sleep during the day if I laid down with them on the bed and pretended I was asleep and then they would sleep since they weren't missing out on anything interesting.

Oh Mylittleones how scary for you. 

Skylark, such fantastic information.  Thank you!

I remember that even though i receive epidural (maybe a little late), i was awake and when ask while being in labor from oldesd kid I answer: 'FIRST baby and the LAST one' becasu it hurt a lot. Of course soon after I forgot this and 2 yrs late i was giving birth to my wonderfull daughter and 6 yrs later to another boy (now 26 yrs).

I laughed at this 2010BEBES because this was me every time I was in labour and I have 4 children.  I would say to my husband "This is our last baby, I'm not doing it again".

Thanks for posting that article Skylark.  It was exactly what I was trying to say.

In contrast I was hearing about the situation in some African countries where some midwives from our state have traveled to help out the hospitals.  The caesarian rate is about 3% because they do not have the skilled medical staff or even the resources and equipment to perform caesarians when they are needed and the mortality rate of mothers and babies is atrocious.  So we have on the one hand communities where caesarians are overused and on the other hand communities where they are under utilised. It is tragic on both accounts and if only some of the resources we have could be funneled to places where they are really needed.

Great link McDume   

Hi 2010 Bebes.  This is a topic close to my heart as I am involved as a committee member in my local area for a non-profit organisation that provides education and support for women to have the best birth possible.

I live in Western Australia and here the caesarian rate is 30%.  This is incredibly high.  I believe that 10% is the expected number of caesarians that are medically necessary.

In my experience all of those reasons are reasons for the increase.  I also believe that the culture of birth as a normal, natural part of being a mother has disappeared and many first time mothers do not hear reassuring stories about how empowering birth can be and it is no longer seen as a rite of passage but as something we need to endure to get a baby and that if we can numb the pain or bypass the messy business of giving birth althogether then we should.

Unfortunately the medical profession feeds off this fear and the lack of knowledge that is given to women in their first pregnancy and scares women half to death by painting a worse case scenario.  So when a dr tells you that your baby could die if you don't have a caesarian of course you will book in the caesarian.  Unfortunately they don't explain the risks so well to you either and then if you have another child and want a vaginal birth they put up all sorts of policy barriers that mean it is very, very difficult for you to avoid a caesarian. 

Then if you go past 40 weeks which is really arbitrary number they talk induction and say they will induce at 40+10 when most first time mothers will gestate on average to 41 weeks or more.  Then you end up with drugs that make you contract very painfully, you want an epidural for the pain, you are on a time limit and your labour stalls so you end up with a caesarian.

There is also the fear factor when you walk into the hospital which is so far out of your comfort zone.  Like any other mammal if you feel threatened your labour will stall because you do not feel safe enough to birth your baby.  So again you end up with a caesarian because neither you or your baby are tolerating extended labour.

There really are so many things wrong with our culture around birth.  When my mum birthed in the 70's she said that babies were rarely induced and you didn't have an exact estimated delivery date or ultrasounds to go by so if you were "over" people didn't worry and left you alone to go into labour naturally.  So much better for Mum and Bub to do this.

Here is an article about the latest research.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=elective-cesarean-sections-are-too-2010-01-11

Caesarians, contrary to popular opinion, are much more dangerous to both mother and baby unless it is an extreme situation.  Obstetricians are more likely to recommend caesarians because of the threat of litigation.  If an obstetrician allows a mother to birth naturally and something happens they are more likely to be sued than if they perform a caesarian and something happens because it is deemed that they "did everything in their power" to avoid injury or death by operating.  So even though caesarians are more dangerous and have more long term ramifications to both mother and baby they are performed routinely when not medically indicated.  If a mother or baby is injured or dies as a direct result of a caesarian that has been performed correctly it is considered a tragedy but the reason for the caesarian is not questioned. 

There are also ramifications on bonding and breastfeeding with caesarians.  Surgical delivery sidesteps the natural process and both mother and baby miss out on important surges of hormones that aid in bonding and breastfeeding.  The rate of PND in mothers who have had caesarians and their disconnect from their babies can have devastating long term effects on both of them, not to mention the flow on effects to fathers and other siblings. 

Vaginal birth with the use of instruments such as forceps or vacuum extraction is much more risky for both mother and baby.  The use of instruments is often required because a mother has an epidural and her ability to birth her baby naturally is impeded. Often even in cases where a baby appears to be stuck a mother can change positions and thus change the position of the baby.  Unfortunately positioning is not something most obstetricians know although many midwives may (this is not a given though since often they have been unable to gain these skills since it is rare that birthing mothers are allowed the freedom to try this before obstetricians intervene).  In a hospital environment the midwives must do as the obstetricians say and if a surgeon is in charge of your care then it is fairly certain that you will end up in surgery because that is their field of expertise.

Despite WHO recommendations that trained midwives should be our primary carers in pregnancy and birth the reality for most of the industrialized world is that the medical profession is in charge and we are in most cases forced to conform to the medical model of care.

There are huge problems with how we birth our babies and this is a hard topic because there are so many variables that no two mothers and babies will have the same experience.  My only advice is to question and research everything about your particular set of circumstances, if it is at all possible have a trained midwife as your primary care provider and trust your instincts in birth because they are there for a reason.

I am so sorry Stellajo and Kizudo that you have both experienced pregnancy loss.  I understand how devastating this is.

My first pregnancy was much anticipated and we held off telling most people until after 12-13 weeks.  Everything was fine, we had the usual scans and there were no problems.  Then all of a sudden my waters ruptured at 23 weeks and I was flown via RFDS out of our small town to the nearest regional hospital where 4 days later my first son was stillborn.  It was heartbreaking but amongst all the explanations and having to explain to people we saw rarely that our baby had died when they saw us months later I discovered that a lot of other women had also had stillborn babes and were a huge source of support.  There was no reason why my baby died that anyone could find.

Less than a year later, again at 23 weeks my second baby, another son, was stillborn.  This time I lived in the city and attended the tertiary specialist hospital for all my appointments but to no avail. 

After that I vowed I'd never have children because I could not imagine going through that again.  Unexpectedly I fell pregnant again and at the end of 9 months had a healthy, full term baby girl.  Since then I have had three more pregnancies and three more healthy baby girls.  Two of them were even born at 40+10 and 42+5 days gestation. 

You never, ever get over the fear though.  Every time I'm pregnant I can't relax and enjoy it until I have a live, healthy baby in my arms.  I am paranoid and never prepare anything until the last minute.  So I totally understand how you felt kizudo.

I did choose to tell people that I was pregnant earlier but since my babies were past the stage of being able to hide a pregnancy it seemed pointless since for me the danger zone is 20-24 weeks.  In both cases my babies had nothing wrong with them, my cervix wasn't incompetent or anything like that but they were too little to be considered "viable" (what a horrid term that is to describe a baby).

I think as others said there is no right or wrong time to tell people, just the time that is right for you and only you can decide that.

Julie

That's so true Kreena about the signs children make when they need to do poo.  I had totally forgotten that

My DD#3 used to get very angry when she was about to do a poo so I knew that if for no apparent reason she started yelling or stomping her feet or fighting with her sisters it was time to go.

Hi amath

Glad your pain is not indicative of something more sinister (I was thinking early labour but didn't want to scare you).  It's still not good that you have this pain.

In your job are you seeing clients or customers a lot or are you in an office away from the public?  I ask this because if you need to sit at a desk for long periods of time and you're not in the public eye you may be able to replace your chair with a fitball some of the time.  These are the big bouncy exercise balls that are also used for labour.  It sounds weird but they can really help with pregnancy discomfort such as yours.

Hi Kreena

So nice to have you here.  Wow, twins!  How old are they?

I am a mama to 4 girls aged 1, 2, 4 and 8.

Julie

Hi Sheila

Welcome to the forum!  How exciting having a surprise pregnancy.

I am Julie and have 4 children aged 8,4,3 and 1.  We think we are done now but are not going to make a definite decision for a couple of years when we've had a break from babies and toddlers.

It will be nice to have another Mum with lots of children on the forum.

We were at the footy on Sunday and I was in the toilet with my DD#3 who is recently toilet trained.  As I was on the toilet she was saying in a loud voice:

"Yay Mummy, you did it, you really did wee on the toilet.  Well done!  I am soooooo proud of you!"

Luckily we were there mid quarter so only a few people overheard 

Hi Martusia

I've only just noticed this thread. 

I also experienced this pain when I was pregnant and breastfeeding, especially the first 4 months then it seemed to be not as noticeable after about 16-18 weeks (or maybe I just became accustomed to it.

From other breastfeeding Mums I have found that it is quite common.  Kellymom is a good resource but I also found the Australian Breastfeeding Association very useful.

http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/tandem.html

Hi Amath

Is this pain something that you have had for a while or is it something that has come on suddenly?  I don't mean to alarm you but if it is something that has come on all of a sudden you should really get it checked out because it could be something more serious than just pregnancy discomfort.

If it is an ongoing pain and nothing more serious I have found that gentle swimming or pregnancy yoga is really effective.  Swimming is a non-weight bearing exercise so you can relax and enjoy it.  Good pregnancy yoga teachers will have positions that will help with pregnancy aches and pains and will also help to prepare your body to birth.

Good luck.  I hope you find something that works for you.