I don't own any of your products, but I do try to have a more child-led approach so I'll speak to that.

One video program I've used with my (now) 24 month old is Preschool Prep Company.  We watched the DVDs together and I tried some various ways to use the sight word flash cards with her.  Mostly, I *watched her* to see what she naturally wanted to do.  I noticed she liked to put the cards into little cracks (which was actually pretty annoying--I'd find them in all the cracks between furniture and floor etc.).  So, capitalizing on this desire, I made her a box with a slit on top that would fit them.  I just cut a slit in the lid (and added tape for softer edges) on an empty clear plastic bin.  She would then read a card from a stack and put it in the slot.  This greatly increased her attention span for reading these flash cards. To further promote child-led learning, I placed this box down low where she could reach it anytime.  She still asks to do "words" with me several times a day! I believe she's using these cards more than if I had them elsewhere and brought them out on my timetable and using them in the ways that came naturally to me.

Anyway, many of the child-led aspects would likely depend on the presentation by the parent/caregiver.  Some ways children will want to interact with the materials will be individual to the child, so a product with more flexibility and/or variety of presentation ideas would lend itself easier for a more child-led approach.

I do think some activities are more universal in children and are a part of their development.  Maria Montessori has researched and written at depth about these types of things (general things most children enjoy doing, even repetitiously, at certain ages). For instance, I would think a lot of toddlers would enjoy putting cards into a slit in a box.  Many kids that age also enjoy stacking objects.  So, I think an educational product that makes use of the types of activities it's target age-range enjoys doing over and over and over would be more successful.

I watched this and thought of this thread.

<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6378985927858479238" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6378985927858479238</a>

I got a "sorry we missed you" note today. (extra bummed because I was home all day)

Anyway, I can go get it tomorrow!  *really* wish I could get it today, though...


So, I noticed in the book samples some things that I didn't expect to be there.  Not terrible, but perhaps not in the scope and sequence I was imagining...like the spellings of number words.  Of course, I want my kids to know that, I just consider it a language learning exercise.  Anyhow, are there a lot of things like that in there? I suppose I can answer my own questions tomorrow.

I have more of a Montessori set up, but it's similar.  Everything she needs for one activity is grouped together, on a tray or tub if neccessary. These are organized on IKEA EXPEDIT shelves.

Yeah, I probably should have looked longer and done that.

I do have tracking though and it's already in the US, albeit across the country.

Here's where I ordered from: http://www.mathabacus.com/

They appear to be the same books.


Soroban - I'd want whatever is best, I guess.  I love jumping into things but if an expert told me I'd have a more solid understanding doing it a certain way, I'd want that.  If there's no better way, I'd probably enjoy working on both increasing Anzan skills and increasing Soroban skills simultaneously.

Thank you for telling me the gap there is big!  I feel so close to mastering that level, but I'm just not quick enough.  I'm still trying though and hopefully a real live Soroban will help.

Oh Tom,

Would you also be willing to tell us other things people teach their kids that hinders learning to use the soroban?

Hi Maquenzie

I just wanted to say, if the Soroban teacher and class is a HIGH quality class, the effort will completely be worth every penny and second you invest. I'm not trying to be rude to DannyandAmy, but I don't think they're fully considering the advantage a very good teacher and learning enviromnt provided by a Soroban class would provide.

That being said, from your description of their program, I would be a bit wary. I get the impression that program is not designed by a teacher who's really gone through all of the development that Soroban offers, but I could be wrong.

I wish you the best of luck either way.

Tom

We aren't going.

But, what would your description of a really good program be? What were the things I said that were worrisome?

Tom, thank you VERY much for offering your advice!

So, at what level of understanding the Soroban would you reccommend trying to Anzan, or is it time spent doing it, or just something that happens without trying?  I really don't know very much and find it frustratingly difficult to find helpful information.  Are there any books (maybe not text books per se) that you'd reccommend?

Aangeles, I'm glad that game helped! My son made it up

Ayesha Nicole - that's an awesome worksheet link, thanks!!  Hopefully my books and soroban will arrive soon and we can dig in and actually need those soon!

I think the books you have are the same ones I ordered.  How are they?  Have you started using them with your little ones? (is it twins that are the age by your name..my son is just a little older, he just turned 5). If you've started, how do you like it? How do they like it?

I'm very impatiently waiting for our set to show up.


I had been working on addition or subtraction nightly with my son (using manipulatives, never rote memory anyway), but decided to start in doing multiplication each night instead. And we've done some pre-soroban activities from some tutorials posted here (using marbles in a bowl and then putting five marbles in a bag).  He also made up his own game with the plastic bag of five marbles where one person holds their hand over some of the marbles and the other person "guesses" what's under the hand using the clue of the marbles you can see.  After one long session of this (he just didn't want to stop!) and playing it every now and then since, I can confidently say he gets what makes 5 pretty solidly.  Hopefully this will help when our stuff arrives.

Anyone have experience with this DVD? 

http://www.bento.co.in/product_info.php?products_id=199

I found this to assist with anzan -

http://www.sorobancymru.co.uk/page28a.html

I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I'll see if it helps me bridge over.  And, of course for use with my son when he gets there (I'm waiting until an actual soroban and our books arrive to teach him, right now he's just building up the desire by watching me enjoy myself).

I think I am doing what you are saying. The time is almost maxed out so I'm doing it slow.  And the problems are like: 4 + 1 + 9 + 7.  And I force myself to do it on a mental soroban.  It's hard.  Not too much, and I like hard. That particular app can be adjusted to pretty easy.  The first one I found went way too fast at its easiest setting.

Anyhow, I am agreeing with you I think. 

I like to add (or subtract) numbers as I see them when driving too (but there's no way to check that).  I suppose that's the advantage of a very slow anzan app, a quick check.

Aaaandd...I feel like I need abacus rehab...I've been "playing" for about 4 hours this morning.  I should really stop and do some other things. But the bonus is my 5 year old has watched and pretends to play along or asks for a try sometimes.

I need to cut myself off for the day though, geez.  Or...maybe just until the kids are asleep..

I think I'm doing something similar, through the free iPad app "Master Soroban".  Every time I hit a new skill (multiplication, division), I just googled how to do it.  I can do all four operations now with multiple digits, but addition and subtraction must faster.  On this app, I can beat the "grade 7" challenge, but not grade 6 (yet!).

I've been using the finger movements as described here: http://www.visual-soroban.org/smart-moves.html

I've found so many different finger methods though, so I'm not sure what's best, or if it's really just preference.  The book I have on order uses a three finger approach.  And of course, I've only been using an app, so I've yet to see what I'll use long term once I actually touch a soroban!

What I'm finding really difficult though is anzan.  I'm sure it's because of all those grooves put in place by years and years of doing arithmetic differently (like user "Soroban" said).  Helpfully for me now (but unhelpfully for me in elementary school as my teachers didn't like it) I did subtract similarly (finding the 10-compliment, I always called it the "opposite").  My 2nd grade teacher accused me of cheating because I never showed my work, and it was a fairly bad experience and I learned to compensate a little, but my mind actually does prefer these methods. 

I find doing anzan with the complimentary numbers hardest.  When I hear 3 + 7, my mind stops picturing the abacus and just says ten and then I have to force it back to looking at the abacus and try to set it at ten, instead of adding 7 if I were moving the beads.  If that makes sense.  I'm really slow at anzan now, and undoubtedly could do arithmetic quicker any other way, but I'm trying to practice it now every day to build these new grooves so that I can use it for the more complex problems.  But, I think this part will be slower going.  I'm using the iPhone app "Anzan Junior" because I can set it really slow and slowly add numbers.  Currently 4 1-digit problems within 9 seconds (2.25 seconds per number) is a challenging level for me.  I have a LOT of work to do there!

Yes, I was thinking the same thing re: building confidence.  The instructor said after about 3 lessons (weeks), all the kids are hooked. I was also thinking about the benefits of an extended lesson once per week with daily shorter practice.  It might be useful to *really* get the new concept, which might take longer.  Then, daily practice to keep the new skill (at least for this age - 5+, I'll likely start my daughter younger and do something completely different!  ).  I'll definitely experiment with schedules and order of lessons once our Soroban show up in the mail.  I'm impatiently waiting.