My son wouldn't let me brush his teeth at first either... he just clamped down on the toothbrush. But like many here he would let me put a finger in his mouth, so I used that little rubber fingertip brush for a long time. Now I let him wet the toothbrush, squeeze out the toothpaste and brush a bit and then I do all his teeth properly.

I always sing "Brush brush brush your teeth, brush the (food) away" to the tune of "row your boat"... and I name everything we had for dinner, or since he last brushed his teeth. It keeps his attention, and he lets me know if I missed something. It helps him understand why we are brushing his teeth, is a good food vocab review, and lets me brush long enough. Sometimes I slip in something silly like "brush the mud away" or "brush the shoes away" and he goes "nooooo!" and thinks it is funny.

Frankly, I don't have much choice. I adopted my son as a single parent, after trying to get pregnant for years. It will be years before I finish paying back his adoption, and haven’t the budget to do it again, nor the time or energy for a second child. No chance of getting pregnant at 46 if it didn’t happen at 30 or 38, no partner to help out. So my son will be a single child unless I get together with someone who is already also a parent.

As for the “they’ll be friends”, “they won’t have the burden of aging parents alone”, etc... one never knows. I was close to my brother two years younger than myself until there was my youngest brother. Then I was the elder girl, expected to help mom, and the boys were ... the boys. Always together while I was the girl. My brother who was closest to me died age 24, and yes, I still miss him, 20 years later. He has NOT been here to be an uncle to my child, to share life with, or to help with my aging parents. I never had a sister, and though I wanted one, the lack of a sister isn’t this gaping hole of sadness of my brother having died.

My other brother and I have almost nothing in common. He was into team sports and groups of friends as kids, became a conservative Christian after years of trouble with the law. I hated team sports, loved quiet reading and drawing and one on one, always lawabiding and an agnostic. My mother has signed me to be her will executor and sign her living will, as she doesn’t trust my brother who will want to keep her alive by any means, and is very bad with money. So I foresee battles with him, both emotional and financial when my mother is unwell or dying. We have never been close, played together as kids (though I did babysit him when I was 12-15, and was thrown out of cinemas etc as I couldn’t force him to behave), shared viewpoints or sense of humour, or attitudes about the world or the family.

So, yes, it might be great for a child to have a sibling, and if I could afford it, with time and money and help, I probably would have another child or two, but one cannot count on them sharing things in life, nor both still being alive later in life to help with aging parents or give comfort or for their children to be cousins (my son has no cousins).

Hi, very interesting post, thankyou Jinji!

I will reply more later, but just wanted to point out that Pororo is not bilingual. It is 100% chinese and our teacher from Beijing said the pronunciation was very good and they speak slow enough to understand easily. They do have the option, like many dvds, to listen to different language audio, ie switch from Chinese to English. But it would then be all English, which is good for us parents who don't speak Chinese to get a good grasp of what the story is about before we listen in Chinese.

Also, Dora is also Chinese. It is only bilingual in that it is for Chinese children to learn some English. Since my kid speaks English already, and knows his colors etc, that part is negligible.
It does NOT translate the chinese that Dora and other characters speak. I will write a sample where the english I put in capital letters (My chinese is good enough to understand but not good enough to write here without an hour with a dictionary, so the noncapitals in this please understand to be Chinese):

"Where are we going? Let's go ask the map! Say MAP. MAP!"
"Hello children! I'M THE MAP! I'm the map! Wherever you want to go you can ask me where to go! To get to Grandma's house, first you need to go to the happy forest. HAPPY FOREST. Then we need to cross the laughing brook. Say LAUGHING BROOK. And then we go down the yellow road to Grandma's house. YELLOW ROAD. So let's go tell Dora! HAPPY FOREST, LAUGHIG BROOK, YELLOW ROAD! Have a great time! Byebye!"

So, you can see that all the actual speaking is in Chinese. There are only a couple phrases and words per episode in English. Like "Yellow" or "Open" or "No problem" or "Waterfall".

But yeah, Pororo, Little Robots, Bob the Builder we have 100% in Chinese audio, with the options of putting also Chinese subtitles on the screen.

Hi,
welcome!
I'm originally from Regina and Saskatoon, now in Montreal!

Thanks for pointing out that Popping Pandas site! That is GREAT! And it really aligns along with what I have been doing: getting my child (and I) to watch Dora in Chinese, looking up exact translations of chinese words/characters as well as getting the rough translation of a whole phrase etc.
There is also this entry:

 How to help your child start learning Mandarin Chinese
Tips for starting out:

   1. Begin with simple DVDs such as Dora the Explorer in Mandarin Chinese.
   2. Focus on DVDs and songs instead of books (unless you speak Chinese well enough to read the books aloud)
   3. Use flashcards and beginning books to teach basic characters such as numbers from 1 to 100.
   4. Avoid saying words in Mandarin to your child if your Mandarin pronunciation is not good. You can watch programs with your child and learn together!
   5. Avoid textbooks that are not clear and easy to understand. A lot of books published in China and Taiwan for teaching Chinese to children are horrible!
         1. Look for texts that build lessons sequentially. For example, children should learn the numbers from 1 to 10, and then learn how they combine to make numbers up to 100. Children love this progression because it makes learning characters logical and intuitive.
         2. Texts should review old vocabulary as they introduce new vocabulary. Watch out for this one. A lot of texts introduce a ton of new words in each chapter, but do not focus on words that build sequentially. For example, if your child learns the word for book (shu), he or she should then learn basic adjectives such as red （hong) or big（da) to combine with the word he or she just learned. Why teach another random word that does not fit with anything else?
         3. Dick and Jane. Chinese is basically like learning how to read with whole words (the methodology where you memorize words instead of using phonics to sound them out). Children need simple storybooks that repeat words over and over again.

posted by Popping Pandas at 1:45 AM 0 Comments
http://www.poppingpandas.com/pandablog.html

They also have all sorts of books, flashcards, dvds  Excellent resource, thanks so much!

To floong:

My son was adopted at 22 mos from China... he really didn't say anything except wawa (which he seemed to use for water, either bath, or drinking... strange since shui is the mandarin word for water) and ayi (aunty... what the children call the orphanage workers or any ladies in their mother's generation). He babbled babytalk all the time. Within a few months of being here in Montreal, he understood English well enough to follow 1-3 instructions, and within 6 months, his French understanding was good too. But he mostly said Meh, mah, nah, neh, and finally mama. Thank god for sign language or we never would have understood him, in any language!

At about 28 months he was evaluated in speech therapy, and he was on target for receptive speech (understanding others) but on expressive speech (speaking himself), wayyyy behind, and they were afraid it was a learning disability. We got on a waiting list, and he was scheduled for 6 sessions starting at about 37 months old... All this time we were doing English, French and Mandarin, as well as Signing time. He was pronouncing a few more words, mostly in English, but badly.

Then suddenly about 36 months, he had a speech explosion. Before it, he'd say "mah!" and sign helicopter, and I'd say clearly "helicopter!" and he'd repeat "MAH!" And suddenly I'd say "helicopter!" and he'd repeat "hewicopta!" What a huge difference. The speech therapist was amazed... he changed from being 18 months behind in English to being in the lower end of normal. We did do a lot of work on using different verb tenses ("I am singing" not just "I sing") and properly pronouncing ("water" not "wawa"). They decided he doesn't have a learning disability or physical impediment (he has cleft palate repaired) but he'll do follow up this fall. They think it is a combo of personal development rate, having had a cleft palate when small, and changing languages, and then doing many language. But they said to continue with the three languages, no problem.

Even though at 3 yrs old he had an English speech explosion (though still behind many kids), he was not speaking French, only understanding it very well. We live in a mostly francophone community, he has French friends and goes 3 days a week to French daycare, but would always reply in English. Then about three weeks ago (he will be 4 in Nov) he started doing the same "explosion" in French! He uses a lot of FRench words and phrases if you speak to him in French now, and will repeat in French. Before: "dog" "say chien!" "dog"! Now. "dog" "say chien!" "chien!" LOL!

I am wondering if it isn't just taking so much in, listening, understanding, and in more than one language. And then finally, they are ready to actually SPEAK! It is such a surprise when it changes over a couple of weeks.

Of course if you really have concerns, go to a speech therapist, and they will do an evaluation and a followup. A good one will not discourage you from doing multiple languages. Your routine (with the playdates etc) sounds fantastic.

OMG this topic is so for me. I buy a few good winter clothes (snowsuit) from LLBean new, but almost everything else (clothes, furniture etc) 2nd hand, garage sales etc... except for educational stuff, especially Chinese.

Every time I look at the shelf of Dora in Chinese, Pororo, Bao Bei the Panda, Baby Learns Chinese, Little Pim, Dance and Learn Chinese with Mei Mei, Walter and Ping Ping, omg I could go on!!... I think about my credit debt and how I culd have got the plumbing fixed istead.

And then there are all the chinese and bilingual picturebooks, the chinese textbooks, grammar books, dictionaries, yearly premium subscription to Chinesepod, all for myself to help him learn chinese. And the Chinese for kids magnetic words, flashcards, talking vocab cards. It is crazy!

I used to spend a lot on Doug and Melissa puzzles, infantino etc, but have cut down as my budget has shrunk this year, but still have bought too many ABC and reading related materials: fridge letters, little electronic games in French for letter sounds and names, magnetic play box for spelling... To think as a child I managed with colored crayons and recycled paper and singing the ABC song to learn to spell and read! It can be done for about $3 I think! Not hundreds!

And yes, then last week I turned down two charities asking for money as I had gone so much into my credit... and found myself bookmarking yet another "great deal! 60% off!" chinese picturebook page online.

This feels like an AA meeting! EMA! Educational Materials Anonymous!

Really.. one textbook, and making flashcards myself would have done it... though I am really seeing results in my son's Chinese from the dvds. Ironically, he won't let me read the picturebooks to him in Chinese... just says "English Mommy! No Chinese!" and won't sit still to listen. But they do help me learn to speak with him.

That's pretty funny. Just yesterday I was looking at the AFS Intercultural Programs online:
http://www.afs.org/afs_or/home re a chinese high school student. Then I decided that my house isn't laid out in a way that I can put in an extra bed with any privacy, so it'll have to wait a bit. But it certainly is an idea. Note that the AFS hosts are NOT paid, though the kids are covered for healthcare etc.

I am mostly writing to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread... it is very interesting reading. I don't do early reading or doman flashcards with my 3 yr old son, and I don't have the best opinion of all this early education... not that I would discredit it, but rather that I don't think it is the thing I would do with my son... but I am doing three languages with him, and it is partially for him, and a great deal for me: I do not want to be accused by him, at the age of 18, of having taken him from China and lost all of his culture, language and chinese-ness. I figure if I can get as much Dora in Chinese into him as possible when he is three, even if he decides he wants nothing to do with Chinese at age 6, when he is 18 he will still have had this solid base of vocab, language exposure, etc and can build on it. So it is partially my fears pushing me (and besides, it is fun to learn myself)

I do think that most of the parents here are motivated to supply an enriched environment for their kids overall... ie making textile books, letting them play in mud, taking them to the zoo and playgroups, and not just keeping them from the world and making them do flashcard drills all day.

I also wanted to say to Akalori... I know it is tempting to feel that if only you had done the flashcards etc with your son... but I suspect that if he has learning disabilities, that you might have had the same difficulties as the experienced preK teachers... ie that the info doesn't enter and stay the same way as it does with other babies... It is possible that the ER etc would have helped, but also possible that it wouldn't have, and that he would need the special education anyways. Indeed I have tried to help a normal child learn to read, and also an illiterate 40 yr old, and I realised that she had learning disabilities... it was like trying to spread butter on water, whereas the time spent with the child... well she just learned so easily. I think it is wonderful that you are working with your daughter, and also that your son is getting intervention, but just think... thank god he had a fun early childhood, rather than doing overtime work on his flashcards at 18 mos, since he didn't "get it". And you may have concluded that indeed babies cannot read since you got no results with your son... I don't know, but it sounds like you are a great mom and doing your best, and even the first Child Study Team didn't diagnose him.

Why not do "early intervention with all kids?"... well, I would say that talking to children, interacting play with them, singing ABCs, reading books from infancy, IS early intervention and stimulation. And for most it is enough... most of us excellent readers, academic successes at school, good in math and spelling and critical reasoning, did have "enriched childhoods" in having engaged parents, nursery rhymes and songs, art supplies and love, but didn't have powerpoint presentations and flashcards. I still read age 4 or 5. And others it isn't enough, and they need more and intensive intervention when it is discovered that it wasn't enough. But I don't think we need to put all the kids into physical therapy because some kids have cerebral palsy, and I don't think we need to put all kids into learning therapy because some kids have dyslexia. My son has speech therapy (he has cleft palate) and just speaking words to him, he couldn't repeat, but I wouldn't tell all parents to do speech therapy with their 9-24 month olds, since if it was good for my child, it would be good for all...

Anyways, thanks to all, and esp DadDude, for lots of food for thought.

Ahh, now it makes more sense why "native speaker" was down at list item #4! ;D Though really, I found our native speaker by mentioning to the guy from the local hardware store installing my heater, and his girlfriend happened to be Chinese. Of course, my son is visibly chinese (or at least asian) so language often easily comes up, and it is often easier to suspect
that someone is a chinese speaker... Dutch stand out less if you are in North America or Europe! Anyways, she just asks a token $20 for a visit once a week, and it is more friendly than a real tutor (I used to pay $40 for a professional Swedish tutor).

And the other woman I found via the "volunteering" section of a local college want ads... she loves to play with my son, and I don't pay her. I also try to take phone numbers of people I meet out who speak Chinese, who have kids... it is surprising how many there are. We even ran into Chinese moms and kids at Saskatoon public library, in Saskatchewan... it is smackdab in the middle of the prairies, and not very big city. The dutch are pretty spread out, so it might be possible to find someone by posting ad in the paper, college, even community centers or laundromats! You never know!

And yes, I agree, upping the parent's fluency is a great start. I definitely work on that as much as my child's. Best of luck! Sounds like you are way ahead with your family background... a bit like me with Swedish and German (neither of which I am doing with my son).

Reasons to teach sign other than first language acquisition:

- it is another language of its own with its own vocab, culture, syntax

- very helpful as a transition between two spoken languages: if a child knows sign for "shoe" it is easy to sign "shoe" silently while saying "xiezi" in chinese... the child will know immediately what you mean, without having to mix English in with the Chinese. Also practical for translating when someone else is talking ie in Chinese, as it is silent.

-excellent for communicating with child wherever raising the voice would be intrusive or impossible: noisy surroundings, during adult conversation, across a crowded room, from distance, while someone is sleeping: you can ask if they are hungry, tired, thirsty, understand what they want, all silently and don’t need to be able to hear, just see.

- -child can communicate with hard of hearing and disabled children and adults, including friends, families and people they meet in public.

-learning gestures to go with language can help a child learn to communicate with people who don’t share his spoken language: we all know “byebye” by waving hands, but just thinking to gesticulate and make gestures opens up the mind to different communication methods. So many people go “he speaks Italian, I don’t... I guess I’ll just not try to talk to him”. Whereas gestures can open up dialogue even between people who can’t “talk”.

I wanted to teach my child sign when I saw an ASL translator speak in sign to her hearing children in a large group meeting. She communicated with them silently, and also across the room, and they could speak with deaf adults and kids as well.

What a cutie! Congratulations! I should work on this with my 3 yr old! You've both done a lot of work! Very inspiring!

Indidee...
Yes I see your problem of it being too hot outside! But here we have SNOW SNOW SNOW (and lots of slush with salt in it that they put on the streets to keep ice from forming) and then in the summer it can be hot like today: they are keeping the children inside as it is too hot, and we didn't go to a parade yesterday because of the heat and humidity. So every place has its trials! !

I give my son lots of learning dvds (Baby Learns Chinese, Signing Time, Little Pim etc) as well as letting him watch regular videos in Chinese or French, not in English, so I at least feel he is learning something. So I am not against screen learning. But I use it for things that I can't teach so much myself (I am beginning chinese myself and myself learned sign watching those dvds!), and then we do a LOT of hands on incorporating into real life, talking about things we see on the street using our new chinese vocab, signing during the day etc.

But I have found that my son's interest in something onscreen totally increases if it is something in his real life: if he sees spiders in the house he is way more interested in flashcard for spider and song "eensy weensy spider". Now he got a toy stuffed camel from a friend who travelled to Tunisia, now he is interested in where is Africa, where did the camel live, what is the chinese word for camel. Sometimes you don't need so much access to "getting outside" but just things the children can manipulate: like an inexpensive set of plastic zoo animals or little set of toy vehicles etc... they can touch and make them "walk" and see how the dumptruck dumps etc.

I think sometimes as adults (who knows looking at a photo of icecream that it is cold, that it melts, that it is sweet, and the pink spots taste like strawberr) that we forget that small children don't have those experiences yet. They can say the right word for ice cream, or tiger or dumptruck, but they have no idea yet that a tiger is bigger than them, or makes a loud growling noise, or that the dumptruck can move over rough terrain and dump things out. And I think we need to really put together as much actual experience of touch, smell, size, hearing, time (ie how SLOW a turtle walks, how FAST a mouse runs!) so that those pictures and words on the flashcards MEAN something. Isn't that the point of reading? Not to get the word right, but to be enveloped in a whole new world created in our imagination from the words?

haha, it looks like I am saying to bring tigers and dumptrucks in the house! haha! No, but just the toys that they can feel, mouth, you can play with them with sounds etc, along with the LR and flashcards etc... Maybe I am wrong but it can't do any harm!

Maria Clara, it sounds like he is doing great and knows what he wants! ! And like I said, you sound like a great mom!

BTW, my son is quite physical... I let him play with flashcards a lot. He loves manipulating them, putting them in and out of the box etc. I don't know if he learns anything other than how to put things in a box (which is good to learn too!) but it can't hurt and it makes him happy to see the flashcards.

I'm perhaps not a good person to answer this stuff, because I myself think flashing flashcards is incredibly boring, but I think that we all learn better hands on. That is why for adults they have language trips, cooking classes, whatever. It is why my friend who is a university language department head says the more senses you can incorporate into learning, the faster you will learn and the more effective your memory. You're more likely to remember a mosquito that bites you than one on a flashcard, more likely to remember the name of a dish that tasted great, than a picture of it on a flashcard, etc etc. Small children are buildling their nerves in their whole bodies, their senses. Flashing an image on a flat card, or squishing some jelly between their fingers, discovering its flavour, stickiness, smell... normal he choses the latter and turns away from the former.

I guess I just think it is sad that people lament that kids do what they are supposed to be doing, exploring the world, and bored by incredibly passive rote learning. I'd say, "good for him!!!" (btw, children in most scandinavian countries, I think, don't learn to read til 7, and have some of the highest literacy rates in the world. Pc or tv aren't generally recommended til age 4 and over.. most of us are trying to get our older kids UNaddicted to pc and tv, and interested in the real world)

But you can ignore my opinion. I don't do LR or other such flashcard techniques, so I'm a bad advocate. I put my son in the bath and let him sit naked in and play with cooking condiments instead and name them. LOL!

I think that he loves books, and you make books for him is FANTASTIC! What is the point of flashing unrelated lists of words when he can have stories, sentences in context, the flow of the plot? I don't think I ever saw flashcards as a child, but my brother and I loved books and by 4-5 were reading fluently. In grade one I could read through most the books they gave us in 2-5 minutes. I did grade 2-3 in one year. My brother was reading 400-500 pg books in a day as a teen. As a gradeschooler he read the WHOLE World Book Encyclopedia.

I would say you are doing GREAT! Give him books, read to him, let him see when you point the words out as you read... and don't force him to do something that is boring (egads that someone flash Chinese vocab to me instead of me listening to Chinesepod.com: there they present funny witty, pertinent dialogues, and you REMEMBER it!)... you want him to LOVE and WANT to read. What a great mom you sound like!