Oh my goodness no....I'm so sorry that wasn't very clearly written at all was it?

I talking specifically about television programs. It is a trend these days for directors to have rapidly changing scenes that can be overwhelming (I myself can find movies these days a little disorientating when they move too rapidly).

I have read numerous accounts that relate that this is the main danger in television, that children become so stimulated by the rapid scene changes and music and excitement that normal flash cards etc afterwards don't stimulate them enough to interest them - they want the rapidity of the television.

This is a time when children are making sense of the world around them and we are supposed to be helping them to get a feel for that world and find their place in it. It is important that the stimulations we give them are representing a real life and the real world. This is the true problem with content, shows like spongebob are not representations of the real world, they do not help a child to find their place in it - all they do is misinform and allow children to draw incorrect conclusions.

Sorry this still isn't making much sense....if you want me to clarify it some more let me know and I'll tackle it when my mind is not in zombie state

No worries Nesrin.

Try to approach your lessons without a planned outcome. It doesn't matter what he retains you are developing new pathways in the brain and making sure they are used enough to hang around. Anything he retains is a bonus.

Use the time to bond, enjoy his laughter and let him react and join in however he naturally wants to.

It will take the pressure off you and he will still learn the same. Just be patient some parents have to wait until their children are two or three before they start to show that they have learned everything that has been passed on to them.

Take it easy.

If he's laughing and giggling you're doing everything you should be

Think of your child's mind as an empty hard drive to a computer.

They will take in only as much as they can handle at one time and then they will give you the signal that they are not interested.

Follow your child's lead, and use your instincts as far as how much and how often.

As an example from birth my son did - reading, japanese, chinese, french, german, music, drums. He now also does Spanish, Italian, maths, science, acrobatics, tap dancing, karate, bass guitar, guitar. Between these lessons he does as much independent play as possible and spends as much time outside as possible.

Short lessons are all you need - I do no longer than a minute for flash card sessions.

He will never be as capable as learning as he is now.

I hope this helps.

It is constant.

As if knowing how to read robs you of your childhood!!!

My son does do lots... but you know what he does it all at night. During the day we are outside rain or shine doing everything we can to physically exhaust him (in the hope he'll sleep) and then at night we try to tire out his little brain with books and puzzles and family games.

It doesn't seem to matter if it's family or friends you get extreme reactions, people who want to do it too or people who think you're a horrible and pushy parent forcing your child's eyes open with tooth picks to make them to read the words you're holding up.

Any one who really knows anything about children knows you can't force them to learn anything.Hopefully when our kids grow up they'll be able to explain to the world what great fun it was learning with mum and dad and people will see they turned alright after all.

Would you believe my mother in law thinks children who are taught to read early don't develop an imagination!!!!!! Despite the fact that I was taught to read and do maths early and I have a vivid imagination. Despite the fact that my two year old makes up stories and pretends all the time she still insists I should stop teaching him.

I would have no problem with their objections if even one of them was based on a true analysis of what we do (rather than the assumptions they make) and had any basis in fact whatsoever. But of course it's all myths made up by people who fear the unusual or feel guilty because it means that the tv really is an inappropriate baby sitter and maybe they should do something with their child that doesn't assume he is a brainless moron.

My father in law asked my son "Where's Mummy?" in the slowest most animated voice you can imagine (I was holding him at the time). Sabian looked at him rolled his eyes jumped down onto the floor and walked off. The response of dear daddy in law was - "Is his hearing okay and he's talking well and everything?He really should have been able to answer that."

I walked away and when I came back (and I never do things like this) I wrote a silly sentence in Japanese and showed it to my boy who read it and laughed. I then said the only thing that is wrong with my son is that he doesn't appreciate being spoken to like a moron. I walked away, needless to say the in laws don't visit much and they don't buy my son presents or have much to do with him. I figure my son's not really missing out on all that much and my life's much much easier without them.

Funny thing is if you were smacking your child in order to force them to have good manners you'd probably get a thumbs up from the same people who think you shouldn't be teaching them to read. Well let's see who has happy children who reach their potential and enjoy life and who has children who dread school hate maths and find reading to be chore.

Sorry if this sounds a little aggressive I just find it really frustrating to have people assume the worst of me because they themselves are ignorant.

Feynman is my science hero!!!

I highly recommend reading his story (as written in the book "genius"

His take on the problems with maths and science education are most interesting.

He saw the world differently to the rest of us and I think this is why he was so innovative. A truly brilliant man!

There are fewer pedophiles per capita and they're getting caught sooner and sooner. I'm not saying abandon all safety precautions, just don't worry yourself crazy over it.

I'm not sure where you're getting that concept, would love it if it were true but it's just not. The percentage of pedophiles pretty much remains constant.

The pedophiles are still all out there and they're just getting better at fooling the rest of the world. In my life I have personally met and associated with more than five of the filfthy horrid creatures (sorry really have trouble thinking of them as people - call me descriminatory if you like) seen two put behind bars and three get away with it despite much evidence (usually parents not wanting to put their children through court - a topic for another discussion but so not the right way to handle it).

We must always be extra vigilant, trust no one and ensure that the right relationship tools with our children are in place. It is much harder for them to victimize a child who has a good relationship with their parents, in fact most of them wouldn't bother trying with such a child. You cannot be with your child every moment but they can know that they can come to you with any thing, they can know what it is right and what is wrong, you can be extra vigilant in constantly re checking the people in your child's life and environment and always having open conversations with your child about their feelings.

Sorry to carry on but I have seen so much of this and so many people think it doesn't happen much because no one wants to talk about it once it has happened you hide it away and everyone carries on thinking the world is a nice place. The number of children who are exposed to this in varying degrees each year is even worse than the "known statistics"  which are around 15%-25% of girls and 5%-15% of boys. Put a hundred kids in a room and as many as twenty five of them could be victims.

Children should not be on the internet by themselves, teenagers should be constantly monitored (they have to have some chance to learn independence after all) and it should never be a hush hush topic.

I wonder if the advertisers on this sick heads' site are aware of his activites - I highly doubt it!

It's good to remember about the not so tangible results of these programs too....

There is a reason the Doman method has success with brain injured children - it helps the brain with the creation of new pathways etc (long scientific explanation required - but too tired).

Remember that the bonding, the instilling a love of reading and maths, the idea that education is fun and that mum and dad enjoy doing it with you - so many other positives -  are life long.

Even if my son forgets all of the words and all the maths, the pathways are set up - a huge advantage in itself. And I mean really who starts these programs because they want their child to have maths quantity recognition (great skill for a spy but most of us manage without it)?

As for working the same for every child. For that to be the case every child would need to have the exact same environmental set up - not just the same maths and reading lessons. There are many other factors that contribute to when your child will tell what they have learned.

For instance my son refused to show us he could read. I had to video him watching YBCR while we were out of the room so that I could check his reactions to discover that he was reading. With the maths I had no clue it had been working, as far as I could tell he didn't (doesn't) want a bar of it. Doesn't matter if it's Doman or LM and yet the other day we went to a strange house and as we were walking down the stairs he started counting backwards (about two thirds of the way down) one number per step, 7,6,5,4,3,2,1 and jumped onto the ground and yelled ZERO!!! It took me a while to realise how many things had just happened for a boy who refuses to do maths! He counted backwards, one number per object and he knew how many stairs were left. Have you ever tried that? I did I went and stood halfway up the stairs and honestly I didn't have a clue where to start counting.

So keep your chin up! At worst you are stimulating your child's brain and giving them great attitudes towards learning, at best well who knows what these little people are going to achieve in their future years hey?

As for TVs and Computers. Computers are worse than tvs, generally because we sit so close and for some reason we tend to blink less when reading at a computer and can get dry eyes etc. I believe that LCD screens are much better for the eyes as are HD tvs as the old refresh rates on the cathode ray tvs weren't great. I'm totally with LilyAndOwensMom on this one - content content content. In particular (while I worry about moral content) if the content flashes around too much and changes to quickly too often you can desensitize your child to stimulation.

I'm in a similar position.

Sabian worked out the phonetic code himself - mostly YBCR but possibly a few other things who knows really.

Point is while I know he knows what the letters sound like he doesn't actually do that when sounding out a new word - he pauses and then says (mostly pretty right - some of multisyllabic words are strange or have difficult combinations.

I figure I'm just going to skip that step but then when you keep looking there's all the rhyming stuff and whatnot that is related.

Do I assume that because he knows his phonics and is several steps ahead of that that it's okay or do I go back or do I wait until he's a bit older.

If I asked him which of three words was cat he would look at me like I'm a moron and walk away (my son hates to be tested especially if he feels the question is stupid and he knows that you know he knows - very hard sometimes to come up with new and clever ways to test his learning without him knowing he's being tested).

If any one out there has older children and has been through this phase of development or teachers with ideas I'd love to hear your opinion on where to go next?

Your poor heart must be aching. Mine is aching for you and your little boy's suffering.

These people must be reported!

The fact that she felt her behaviour was justified is even more concerning, you can't help but wonder what other strange attitudes they have and what other awful predicaments the children have been put in.

Remember your bond and love with your child will help him to come out the end of this without trauma, you can always repair these things.

However, it is our responsibility to ensure that those who can't protect themselves are protected and to do that you will need to report them. If you are concerned about repercussions you will be able to make an anonymous report. I can understand your mum's viewpoint. However, in this case a report could prevent far worse things from happening. People who have such disrespect for other human beings will have many other horrid little habits. The beauty of this situation is that an adult witnessed the abuse - there is no doubt about their behaviour and your son will never need to be a part of the process. Though I seriously recommend talking to a professional about whether or not they think it needs special handling. Chances are he will have a vague memory of a yucky place and a cold shower and that will be it.

I hope they lose more than their licence.   >         

Tell your Mum God can punish them the police will just make sure it's only for what has already happened not a whole list of other occurrences in upcoming years. Because you have the power to prevent it.

I think you will find you have ample support.

Excellent, Thanks for that

I think it's a fantastic idea.

There are many of us who would like to have someone nearby with more experience than ourselves to guide us or get us started, give it to us all in a nutshell, if you could combine it with offering resources all the better without necessarily trying to sell them.

Would have loved to do a Doman course but they don't come any where near me

Every year more parents begin early education, perhaps we'll find the stigma is beginning to take care of itself. I think you'll find plenty of people interested enough in the beginning for what you'd be ready to cope with. That way you can start smaller and build up.

Maybe even eventually franchise it

Good luck with it

I add the colour last.

It is quite difficult as you need to knead it in but it is certainly possible. It will make a mess of your hands though.

It would be nice to think that my son doesn't have perfectionistic traits, to believe that if I stop behaving a certain way it will all go away but I am afraid I can't take the all the blame on this one.

I have three nephews with the same tendencies, I had them and my two sisters have them. We also have, in varying degrees, over excitabilities and sensitivities - these go hand in hand with the sorts of children who are perfectionists. My son has a very high degree of psyhcomotor over excitability and a bunch of other tendencies towards other over excitabilities and sensitivities.

The child psychologist explained to me that Sabian's perfectionism has a to do with these and that while it will never go away I can teach him how to use these perfectionist traits in positive ways instead of allowing them to overwhelm him and stop him from moving forward.

My son knows full well that I am pleased with him no matter what he does, it is himself that is not pleased. I have no expectations for him and I certainly put none on him, it would be hard for people to imagine just how carefree and unpressured this household is as it is so unusual but there is no pressure on us or him for anything - we live day by day and accept what comes to us each day.

Unlike many parents I have met over the years, I don't have an expectation of how my son should be or what he should be able to do, he will do things when he does them. I don't expect him to behave like a performing seal doing "party tricks" for people when they come over like "tell everyone how old you are" or whatever else parents think should make them proud enough to force their child to show it off to everyone.

Sabian is smart enough to look at the people around him and notice they do things a certain way and try to emulate this without us putting it on him. It has nothing to do with wanting to please but more with wanting to be like us.

Within himself he has a need to do things well, with the strategies we are now employing he will use this trait to succeed in life and always be improving. We will help him to understand that sometimes a mistake can be a wonderful and beautiful thing and that it is a learning experience and part of a journey.

Awesome, great resource, cheers

My son is also a perfectionist - I am a clutz (put me on a stage and I'll dance gracefully and beautifully, get me to walk down the street.... ) my husband is ultra co-ordinated and never walks into things or drops things like I do. But then he tends to think first which I believe may help. We never make a big deal about spills here, I spill my drinks as often as my toddler, probably more these days, and yet he is so ultra careful and crestfallen if he "fails" and spills some.

At one stage I was sure he was practicing things behind my back when I couldn't see or hear because he would just suddenly do things perfectly.

We went through a stage recently (from 18 months to 25 months) where he just didn't want to do things unless he could do it perfectly first go. We realized that he was so intently focused on the end result that he was completely forgetting about the journey.

We had to use several tactics to get through it but it seems to have passed (at least the excessive bit has, he's still very determined to get things right).

One thing we did was focus on the word "together" when a task was daunting him to the point where he wouldn't try.
For example he had a cdrom and one game on it simply required more fine motor control with the mouse than he had developed so even though he knew the right icon to choose he kept hitting the wrong one and getting it wrong. He kept making me put it in but then I had to play it while he watched. In the end I got him to give me instructions and I did the mouse work and eventually he would start to move my hand around then one day he just started doing it.

If you can bring yourself to do it, join the dancing class - ignore whether or not she joins you she just needs to know that it's a safe place where you can try new things. Alternatively most dance classes will have set combinations or steps or exercises or stretches that they repeat each lesson - learn them and practise them together at home until she'll try it in front of the class once she's in a dance class she will eventually try new things of her own accord as she sees the other children happily trying and failing or succeeding. If the teacher is aware that your daughter needs to be handled gently in this matter she'll be joining in happily soon enough.

The other thing we did was react equally to success and failure. So if he was pouring and he spilled his drink and he cried our dialogue might be something like "oh you're so frustrated! you were trying so hard not to spill. I saw how careful you were being and I was impressed, such good concentration, you almost did it too! I'll bet the next time you spill half as much! Let's mop this up and we'll get another one". At first he would just kind of cry over the top and we'd keep kind saying the same thing till he calmed down but we noticed that very quickly (like in a matter of days) he started calming down as soon as we acknowledged his frustration. If he was to pour the cup successfully we would once again comment on how careful he was, how I noticed he was concentrating and what good persistance he has etc. A few months down the track he's not really worried. He still tries very hard, sometimes he still gives up but he'll come back soon after and the excessive perfectionism is gone. He's quite happily trying things.

Good luck with it