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946  EARLY LEARNING / Teaching Your Child to Read / Re: Early Reader, Later In Life. on: February 24, 2009, 09:20:36 PM
I don't mean to discourage you, but I am very sure I'd have the same worry you're having if we weren't going to homeschool.  But since we are going to homeschool, this is not a problem for us.  Your question deserves to be taken very seriously.  What really can be done to prevent social and motivational problems at school later on, if you teach so much early on?

Anybody know of schools for older kids, who were educated early on using the Doman method?
947  Parents' Lounge / Introduce Yourself / Re: Teaching to Read!? on: February 24, 2009, 07:17:10 PM
Welcome Christin, I just posted my own "how I did it" story on this board.  Maybe that will help.
948  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / English Free Downloads / Re: DadDude's presentations on: February 24, 2009, 07:01:48 PM
Thanks!

Well, we've been reading to him since he was 3 or 6 months (I forget), discovered he had learned many of his ABCs when he was 18 months, then we moved onto refrigerator magnets, and started investigating the whole "your baby can read" stuff...then at 22 months we started YBCR and flashcards (http://www.mediafire.com/fleschcards) at the same time.  As to maps, we just started playing with them and a globe sometime when he was one, I think.  Also used some wooden U.S. puzzle maps.  We didn't start with ppt presentations until he was 27 months (after I read the Doman "encyclopedic knowledge" book), and now he is 33 months.

OK, since you're not on TeachYourBabyToRead (which I recommend), here is the contents of the relevant posts below.

It's been a few months since I wrote the following.  The kid is still making good progress.

"DadDude"



> I'm new to the list and I have a question for you.
>
> My wife and I have a two-year-old boy whom we have taught to read. He
> can now read simple books (e.g., no problem at all with the Biscuit books,
> and things a little more advanced than that too) by himself and is making
> daily progress. Just for background and to share experience, here's how we
> did it.
>
> We read lots and lots to him since he was--I don't remember, 3 or 6 months.
> He just sat there and took it all in. Before he was a year old he was
> turning the pages. We began with baby books and moved up, around 12 or 15
> months, to short simple stories like Clifford. We never stopped reading
> lots and lots every day. Many books daily, often a dozen, sometimes less,
> sometimes more. These included a half dozen or so ABC books.
>
> When he was 18 months or so we bought him the LeapFrog "Alphabet Bus"
> (there
> are many products that do the same thing). We noticed he was pressing the
> buttons (one button for each letter) in interesting patterns,
> systematically
> exploring. At some point we thought to ask him, "Where's the S?" and he
> would press the S. So we discovered he knew all his letters by 18-20
> months.
>
> I then started doing research online about when kids start learning
> the alphabet, which led to the discovery that some babies are taught to
> read
> as...babies? Huh? But I saw it on YouTube and it's hard to deny that
> something's going on there.
>
> We got him refrigerator magnets and after we played a little with him and
> them, he actually spelled out and sounded out "dog." That convinced me that
> he was capable of learning to read.
>
> So I did two things basically at once. When he was about 22 months, we got
> "Your Baby Can Read" (by Robert Titzer). My boy absolutely LOVED them and
> demanded to see them as often as possible (but we never showed them more
> than once a day, and my wife slowed it down to every other day). Still he
> got through all of them in about two months and knew all of the words cold,
> no problem. Then he was bored with them.
>
> I started making flash cards out of the word lists in the back of Rudolf
> Flesch's "Why Johnny Can't Read." At the time I didn't know about Doman.
> On one side of the cards, which are about 2" by 4", I put the word in large
> print, and on the other side, a picture representing the word. (I use MS
> Word and print out four cards per 8.5/11 page.) Well, that was about six
> months ago. In that time we've gone through over half of the phonetic rules
> and my boy has learned to read (sound out) many hundreds of words. I'm
> careful to pick ones that I know he understands, or that I can explain (so
> it's a great vocabulary lesson too). It's pretty quick and easy to make the
> cards if you know how to do it, by the way. So I've made cards for...well,
> it's hard to believe it, but I estimate it at over 700 words now. And he
> can read a lot more words than I've made cards for.
>
> Also, we've been working through the great Starfall website, I highly
> recommend it.
>
> Now, I can't say for sure how he has learned to read the way he reads now,
> whether it's the book-reading (I now put my finger under the words as I
> read, and he follows the finger and I'm sure has picked up a lot that way),
> the Titzer videos, or the cards, but I'm pretty sure he'd test at first
> grade reading level, at least. But somehow it seems that after we introduce
> a new phonetic rule (I'll explain a little more below), he's reading
> better. But he's made very steady progress, and he's picked up a lot of
> words that he couldn't sound out based on the rules I've "explicitly"
> introduced. So I think he's learned a fair bit of phonics "implicitly."
> Still, I think the "phonics" training with the cards has helped him a lot.
> Basically, in six months, between ages of 1 and 2, he went from being a
> non-reader, to reading CVC ("dog") words almost right away, to reading all
> sorts of stuff, multisyllabic words, "silent e" words, etc.
>
> I understand that Doman has you introduce words in basically any old order,
> or based on subject matter. (I don't have the Doman baby reading book
> myself.) I introduce words in sets based on simplest phonetic rule to most
> complex phonetic rule. So we began with the short vowels, then moved on to
> c and k, and then other two-consonant combinations, etc. We got the word
> lists from the Flesch book (which has worked beautifully for this purpose,
> though we've dropped the more conceptually advanced vocabulary).
>
> Here is how I teach my boy to read from the cards. When I was first using
> the cards, here is how I did it (since then it's changed). The first pass
> through the cards, I just read the words, then sounded them
> out ("cat...kk..aah...tt...cat") while moving my finger underneath the
> word,
> and then showed him the picture on the opposite side of the card. We would
> sometimes talk about the word, especially if it was at all unfamiliar. In
> this way he learned some useful new vocabulary and as an added bonus, after
> we started doing this, he started talking A LOT more, and a lot better.
> Anyway, the next time I showed him the set of cards, I would only sound
> them
> out for him ("kk...aah...tt") and ask him, "What's that say?" Then he'd
> usually tell me and only then I'd turn the card over. Worked pretty
> nicely. After a few days of exposure, he was able to read the cards by
> himself with no prompting. In the first several weeks, he went through the
> cards very slowly. He was obviously getting used to the whole idea of
> matching letters to specific sounds that he probably had never thought
> about.
>
> But after a month, he had totally glommed onto the idea. So then I started
> out a new set of cards (=a new rule) by encouraging him to sound out the
> word himself (of course, always giving him the rule, like "qu" sounds like
> <sound> and helping him out and praising him lots). He got to the point
> where, the first time he saw a word, he needed only a little help from me
> sounding out the word, and once one of us (or both of us together) had
> sounded out the word, he immediately said it naturally, no problem.
>
> By the way, while we were doing all this, and beginning about 3-4 months
> ago, I started asking him to read whole sentences, pages, and then whole
> (very easy) books. So he got more practice that way, and I helped him.
>
> Then, a month or so ago, he made another major advance. Basically, he was
> sight-reading many of the new cards, the first time, even for rules he
> hadn't been introduced to before. If he can't get a word, I start sounding
> it out for him, then he finishes after one or two letters.
>
> Anyway I want to emphasize that while he often recognizes words
> immediately,
> without sounding them out, we see all sorts of evidence that he is sounding
> out words. We sometimes hear him sounding out parts of them. If we ask
> him, he will usually, impatiently, sound out a word pretty well. He
> sometimes reads unfamiliar and not-perfectly phonetic (or more
> advanced-phonetic) words according to the (simpler) phonetic rules he's
> learned, which means he must be sounding them out.
>
> At some point I will post the cards on the Internet somewhere. I'm on set
> #27, averaging about 30 words per set.
>
> I know it must sound like I've been imposing on my poor boy and "pushing
> him," but I swear I haven't. I don't have time to do that, anyway. I do it
> basically only when I can see him, especially during meals. He taught him
> to say "that's enough," and "I'm tired of that," and when he says it, we
> stop immediately. We've gone for a month or a few weeks, a few different
> times, without looking at any cards, because it seemed like he was too
> constantly tired of them. Then we'd get them out again after a few weeks
> and he'd be all fresh and interested in them again. Earlier today he asked
> for "new cards" because he was tired of the old ones, even though I made a
> set a few days ago.
>
> So finally I come to the question...
>
> Is anybody else teaching their tots phonics in remotely the same way? Any
> insight, advice, etc.? So far, all I can say it has worked wonderfully for
> our boy. We're amazed at what he can read at 28 months. A year ago I never
> would have guessed that this was remotely possible.
>
> Both Doman and Titzer, I understand, say that trying to teach phonics
> explicitly is somehow a mistake. To that I say, look at the procedure I've
> used. How is that very different from what Doman and Titzer do? Isn't it
> just a matter of the ORDER in which the words are presented? If you can
> give your kid a head start by presenting the words in the right order, no
> problem.
>
> Well, there is one big difference, I now know, between what we do and what
> Doman recommends. Don't they say, "Don't 'test,' don't ask the child what
> is on the card. It will hurt their self-esteem." I think that's a
> mistake. My boy still loves books and is usually game to read (of course,
> we can't overdo it), and seems to take satisfaction in his ability to read.
> And if you don't ask your child what the word is, how do you know if he has
> learned the word? You don't, of course. But once the child is old enough
> to do the sort of on the fly "testing" that I do with my boy, and it's
> really just training not testing, then you're off and running.
>
> If you are confirming that your child has learned a word, then you CAN
> teach
> words in a specific order and you know when you can move on to the next
> set.
>
> I would love to see more "how we did it" stories, but there are over 6000
> posts in this list's archives! If anybody can point to some, I'd appreciate
> it.
>
> By the way, we tried looking at phonics workbooks at computer
> programs. Everything we've tried has been a waste of time and money for our
> boy. I think maybe the ONLY way we could have taught him phonics would have
> been using cards, in order, in the way we did.



I am flattered that you want my opinion. I'm not exactly sure what problem
you're trying to solve, so I'll just ramble on a bit and hope something hits
the mark.

If you want to determine whether he can read stories, just get him some more
books, simple like the Seuss Beginner Books, that he's never seen before,
and try to get him reading them. But don't be discouraged if he doesn't.
You might think that, if he doesn't read the stories, maybe he's just not
reading yet (at the level of the story books, anyway). But maybe he can,
but he doesn't *want* to read the stories. (On that more below.) As you
probably know, it's not hard to check whether he knows the individual words
-- just do a little low-pressure checking with flash cards.

If you discover that he was just memorizing the stories and had not actually
learned the words, then I guess you just want to know how to teach him to
read. That is kind of a tall order, but to summarize what I've said here
and on http://www.mediafire.com/FleschCards , this is my own
method/recommendations and your mileage may vary:

(1) Read loads to him. If he doesn't want to try to read to you, don't
worry about it. He learns a lot when you read to him. Assuming he's old
enough to make out the words, put your finger under (or over) the words as
you read, he will learn a lot this way.

(2) Teach him the alphabet. Use the Alphabet Bus or similar toys, LeapFrog
has some good ones. Teach him the sounds of the letters as well. There are
some good videos around for teaching this too (jeez...
http://alphabetvideos.blogspot.com/ ).

(3) Teach him how to sound out a few simple words like "dog." Get
refrigerator magnets or similar tools to show him how the word is
constructed out of its sounds. The aim here is to make his first explicit
introduction to the idea that words are made up of individual letters which
each have sounds. This is the basis of phonics, of course.

If you're not sure that the phonics approach is a good idea or you don't
quite know what's going on, I would recommend picking up Rudolf Flesch's
classic, *Why Johnny Can't Read.* If you're not convinced a little kid can
learn phonetic rules (I've heard that some experts say it's impossible), I'm
not sure I can help you except to say that my boy started doing so before
his second birthday. He actually spelled and sounded out "dog" on the
refrigerator when he was about 22 months; he didn't know that experts said
he couldn't do it. ;-) Maybe he's unusual, but I don't think so. Robert
Titzer says it's not unusual for kids that little to be able to sound out
new words after going through his program, even though they never learned
the phonetic rules explicitly. I wish I understood this better myself. But
he's now 2.5 years and he'll have a "go" at all sorts of words, like a
champ...doesn't always get them right, but he's obviously applying phonetic
rules and often gets them right!

(4a) Show him the "Your Baby Can Read" videos by Robert Titzer at whatever
pace you and your boy feel comfortable. Other people recommend other
similar videos but these ones we've used from start to finish and we can
vouch for them totally.

(4b) At the same time, start going through the phonics cards I uploaded.
There are around 900 words uploaded already and by the time I'm done it will
be around 1,200. (If he likes powerpoint presentations, you could make some
with the same words, if your boy likes them better. But we use phonics
cards at mealtime; that's the only time we do them, and in fact, it takes up
only a small part of mealtime.) With the first few sets, go very very
slow. Just tell him what they are, at first, but then encourage him to
sound them out. Even if he doesn't want to sound them out, you should
eventually get to the point where you are sounding them out, or you are just
starting to sound them out, and then he just says the word. Your goal is to
get him used to the idea of sounding out the word for himself. By the time
he gets through the first half-dozen sets, I think, he should have the
general idea. Then the challenge is to teach him the sounds/the phonetic
rules.

(4c) Continue to read loads to him, with the finger under word trick. My
boy picked up a huge amount this way, I'm convinced. He really concentrates
on the text as I do this. I've found that he can read most of the new
flashcard words I present to him now, even though he hasn't learned the
rules yet. He's just picked up the rules from reading along with me (and
possibly the Titzer videos too).

(4d) Other tools we've used with good effect are the LeapFrog refrigerator
phonics (the 3-letter kind), a similar 4-letter device you can plug into the
TV and play some software with (I forget what it's called), Starfall.com,
Literactive.com (well worth making the free account), assorted commercial
flashcards... But all of this stuff of course pales in comparison with a
big library of kid's books.

Now, in (1)-(4) I've been assuming your boy did just learn to memorize the
books and isn't really reading the words. But if your boy *can* actually
read the words in Dr. Seuss "Beginner Books" (well done!), but he doesn't *
want* to, then basically you're having the same problem I'm having with my
boy. (He can read increasingly well, there's no question of that.)

In particular, he wants Papa to read to him. When I ask or prompt him to
read something, he usually gives me a little look of impatience and says,
"Papa will read it to me!" So I go ahead and read it to him. I'm not going
to force him to do what he doesn't want to do. Besides, he's making good
progress anyway, both in his decoding (reading-out-loud) ability and his
comprehension. I think he just doesn't feel quite confident enough yet, and
it's still very hard, and Papa makes lots of funny noises and voices when he
reads, so it's just more fun for Papa to read it to him. Actually, our boy
can read the simpler books pretty easily now, but he's read those books to
death (probably he has them memorized, too!) and so they pretty much bore
him, and the only way he's interested in reading them at all is if I am
reading them to him, because of the funny voices, etc. I think it's going
to be a matter for his automatic-decoding ability to catch up with his
comprehension and interest level. While he can decode many words that he
doesn't understand, he can't *easily* or *automatically *decode many of the
words that he *does *understand. My guess is that he'll show more of an
interest in reading to us and also independently when his ability to decode
*easily* catches up with his comprehension/interest level. We should be at
that point in a half-year, I imagine, so I should be able to report back if
my hypothesis was correct then!

Someday I'll compile all my observations into one long essay but for now
this will have to do...
949  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / English Free Downloads / Re: DadDude's presentations on: February 24, 2009, 06:31:19 PM
Hi Ayesha, well, I stand corrected.  I guess I didn't quite realize that Doman recommended these other sorts of presentations.

We have just one boy.  As to how I'm teaching him to read, see this post from TeachYourBabyToRead (scroll down) as well as this post and these phonics flash cards that I made, and this video to show the results:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/T9d38WJIV10&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/T9d38WJIV10&rel=1</a>
950  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / Free Downloads / Free huge art presentations on: February 24, 2009, 02:48:18 AM
http://iris.nyit.edu/arthistory/pptshows.html

Worth a look, but be forewarned...they are HUGE, >15 MB.
951  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / English Free Downloads / Re: Classical Pieces 1 on: February 23, 2009, 12:26:28 AM
Select some text that you want to link from, then press Ctrl-K.  Paste the Web address (URL) in for Address and then press Save.  If you forget Ctrl-K, try going under the Insert menu, then Hyperlink.

Sorry these earlier ones didn't have links.
952  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / English Free Downloads / Re: SHAPES on: February 23, 2009, 12:23:28 AM
Yes, this is a very good one, a cut above!
953  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / Free Downloads / Re: Script: U.S. money on: February 22, 2009, 12:03:48 AM
Hi Gloria, that sounds great!  OK, you could make part 2, which would start at "In the following, use coins and bills a little like Doman math dots..."  Please go ahead!
954  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / Free Downloads / Re: Script: U.S. money on: February 21, 2009, 07:22:03 PM
Well, nobody was quick enough on the draw and now that I have time to make a presentation, I'm going to just go ahead and make it.  I can't let a good script sit and go to waste...
955  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / English Free Downloads / Re: DadDude's presentations on: February 21, 2009, 01:29:00 PM
Ayesha, that's nice to know.

But this would have been nice to put in the actual books, though, don't you think?  What do presentations look like when the child has moved on to sentences?

Maybe if the IAHP were to put out a statement saying that it supports what librarians call "concept books," and which my presentations are an example of, for older children, that might help...  Just an idea.
956  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / English Free Downloads / Re: 1 One on: February 21, 2009, 01:24:51 PM
Thank you, Mandi!
957  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / Free Downloads / Re: Script: U.S. money on: February 20, 2009, 04:52:32 PM
It occurs to me that there is one type of information this doesn't include, but that it should: how much each denomination can buy.

One penny can buy (nothing!).
A nickel can buy (a chicklet, maybe?).
A dime can buy (?).
A quarter can buy a gumball.
A half-dollar can buy a small candy bar.
A dollar can buy a Hot Wheel car.
Five dollars can buy two gallons of milk.
Ten dollars...

You get the idea.
958  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / English Free Downloads / London Bridge is Falling Down on: February 20, 2009, 04:28:28 PM
I can see only one slide here...was there a mistake uploading it?
959  Downloads + Collaborations Discussions / English Free Downloads / DadDude's presentations on: February 20, 2009, 03:46:59 PM
All, I'm done for now working on my new presentations.  I hope you like them.  I have now written descriptions of most of them.  They may be big files, but I think they're worth it.  If you want to make some like this (please!!!), see this post for some guidelines.

I don't mean to step on anybody's toes, because I know that traditional Doman presentations do teach tiny tots a lot.  But I am trying to show everybody that there is a complementary way, in some respects a better way, to do presentations.  I wrote about this elsewhere in a post titled "Should the Doman method be changed in the Internet age?"  If you were interested in why I make presentations in the style I do, it's all explained there.

On the Yahoo group TeachYourBabyToRead, I am "Another Proud Papa" a.k.a. "A.P.P."  I have made quite a few posts there.
960  EARLY LEARNING / Teaching Your Child Encyclopedic Knowledge / Re: cute song & Video on Electricity on: February 19, 2009, 09:36:23 PM
And some more:

http://www.msnucleus.org/membership/guide/storybooks.html
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