Is it Worth it?

[shickadelio]

Hey! I've been doing LOTS of research about this whole "teaching young children math"... and was trying to determine... does my 2 year old NEED to know more than counting? He can count to twenty, and count physical objects, in groupings, up to 8, but I started feel inadequate, as I read more and more about "babies doing math". It sounded like a LOT of work... work my 2 year old would probably enjoy, but not "LOVE" to do. With several posts entitled "When should I teach my baby math"... it seemed absurd and unnecessary, but still... alluring. Then, I found this most interesting article.

If you're thinking of "Teaching you baby Math"... and putting in ALL the time and ALL the effort, to give your child a "leg up", I'd take a few minutes and read this, prior to diving in.

http://grhomeschooling.blogspot.com/2008/11/math-mystery.html

-Meg, Mother of Dexter, 2

[DadDude]

I'm curious how others might respond.

The benefits of early reading and just reading plenty of books are both clear in my mind.  Early reading gives children a way to improve their reading skills independently of their caretakers before going to school, so that (if certain studies of "precocious readers" apply to baby readers) they will be reading at a sophisticated level by their elementary school years.  At worst it merely ensures that the child will be reading well when entering school, and that's nice anyway.

Again, the benefits of reading plenty of books (and doing similar "encyclopedic knowledge" presentations a la Doman) is to introduce a lot of information to the child in the earliest formative years, which has the effect of making that information more rapidly accessible.  In the case of my H., now five years old, having read I guess over 1,000 books on a very wide range of topics has given him a lot of knowledge that I suspect will stick with him for the rest of his life, in the same way that nursery rhymes stick with us.  He knows now more about ancient history and Greek mythology, to take an example, than I did in junior high school.  To my mind this sort of reading is the perfect foundation for a liberal arts home education curriculum.

But what about math?  Do Doman math kids end up being grade levels ahead, for example?  I don't mean to be brainlessly skeptical here, I've got an open mind, I just haven't seen a lot of evidence or even anecdotes about kids who are doing especially well because they started math early.

[fma001]

I did reading and math early with my daughter. She will be starting 1st grade soon with 5th grade reading ability but only 1st grade math ability. So, at least in her case, early math did not get her ahead in any way (although I didn't do any Doman type math). But I still think early math probably has big benefits. While my daughter is not ahead, she does grasp concepts pretty quickly. So, I think early math creates a foundation that makes the subject less frustrating. I think having the concepts down long before beginning formal study helps. I'm already teaching basic multiplication and division to her.

[Wolfwind]

I am teaching my 9 month old math, though you don't see many results at this age.  But what I love about that post is this portion:

"He must be able to manipulate the numbers in his head, he must know them front and back, knowing not only the number but its relation to other numbers, knowing that "fifty" is half of 100 and 1 less than 51 and 30 less than 80. He must know that "twenty eight" is a third of 94 and half of 56, that it's the product of 2 and 14, and 7 and 4, that it's the sum of 20 and 8 and the difference of 30 and 2. If it's all in his head, he'll have it for life, and he must get to that point before he loses the ability to "see" quantity."

To me, this is a goal worth working for.  I know that 50 is half of 100 and twice 25, but that 28 is a third of 94?  Not a chance.  But the numbers I do know well, like 50, I can use to understand any arithmetic nearby - if you ask me 2x52, I'll double 50 and add 4, because those are the numbers I know intimately.  To know all the numbers below 100 that intimately, I feel, would be very useful.  Not just basic math, but advanced math and science would come more easily - imagine how much easier stoichiometry would be with this sense of numbers!

But dots alone are not enough for that.  I think that's the point of that post and something many people don't realize in reading How to Teach Your Baby Math.  (I didn't!)  Once you've done the dots and the four basic arithmetic functions, then comes the most important part, which Doman titles "Number Personalities."  Work with the numbers over and over, in as many creative ways as you can come up with, until your child know them backwards and forwards, as it says in the post.  The benefit of doing the dots as early as possible is to give more time to get to know number personalities during the "window of opportunity" before the ability to perceive quantity disappears.

Doman doesn't do a good job giving tools for this part of the job, in my opinion.  When I finish the dots and division in two weeks, I'm going to have to look hard for ideas about how to help a 10 month old get to know numbers.  (I'm glad there's a thread in this forum on the subject right now!)  But it is the most important part.

So for me, the work to do the number dots is worth it.  (Actually, I didn't find it to be that much work.  A few marathon dot card-making sessions, true.  And finding six different 10-second times a day to show them for three months.)  But I don't know whether I'll get the theoretical results I'm looking for.  Just like with reading words at this age, really.  I find it fun, she enjoys it, so we do it, regardless of the result.  I hope it turns out like I think it will, but if not, it will have been worth it to me to spend the time doing fun learning together.

[khatty]

I agree with wolfwind.  A few minutes a day to do dots isn't that much work, but I also feel that it is not nearly enough for a baby/toddler to truly understand math.

If I feel that teaching Math is like Teaching Reading, then I have to go by the example of how I taught my daughter to read.  I started with Doman flashcards to teach her to read and then did a combination of almost every reading type of activity or game I liked.  Over the space of 12 months we did Doman, YBCR, LR, Readeez, Starfall, ABC Boardgames, sensory tubs with letters and words, labeling items around the house,word matching games, tracing/colouring, and many more.  Then we also read at 50 books a day, many with my finger following under the words.  I would estimate that we would spend about 3-4 hours every day do something related to reading.  Those 3-4 hours were obviously broken into many little games during a day but they added up and she couldn't get enough of it.  Even at 4 hours it was me who was saying no more books, no more reading.  I started when she was 1 year and at 2 she could read.  Just after 12 months I scaled back the activities a lot, I was pregnant and tired.  The result, at 3 1/2 she is reading at about a lexile of 600 (that translates to about a grade 3 level).  Reading is her favourite activity and she spends over an hour every day reading to herself.  To her a library is better than a candy store.

So, it was actually me that posted the request for math activities.    I am struggling with coming up with as many ideas to do math as I did reading.  I am also struggling with time as now I have 2 kids instead of 1.  I am teaching my 7 month old son Math, my daughter is also getting some of this, but my son is my focus.  I wish for him to KNOW math.  My plan was to spend from birth to 12 months teaching him Math and then add reading at 12 months.

Reading was very worth it, and I think Math will be very worth it too.

[Stodd]

I agree too
 I would be happy to get some ideas for math activities too. I have the same problem. I've done Doman Math with my son, tried to do everything I waas supposed to but I'm not sure if he knows it or not. And now I don't know what next. Try to count everything -yes, he can count till 16 or 20, it depends on his mood I guess. But I wish I could do more.
I also agree that the reading process was/is easier for me, maybe just because I can see the result and how much his reading improves from time to time.

[rixu]

ya it is worth
since it improves childs understanding  and spend their time for improving thei life.
if child do not learn counting or maths today she will be force to study them by tomorrow with stress
babies and toddlers show their eagerness and are curious on learning y not we teach them

[Stodd]

I agree with you Rixu, that's why I went through the whole program, because I beieve that even if I can't see it's not a waste of time. Lately we just started to pay with smaller size paper plates: I wrote the numbers on and we glued little pom poms on them together. We put them in order with other symbols (+ - = etc.) or play to match the numbers with quantities of beans, marsh mellows....

[Korrale4kq]

At 2 years old there is so much more than just counting that you can teach them that relate to math.

Here are a few things you can teach through basic daily activities. It lets your kids know that you use math everyday.

Shapes, talking about their sides, their corners, angles. This is early geometry.

Comparisons, especially with quantity, length, weight, size etc.

Measurements.  Cups, ounces, inches, feet, pounds, degrees (as in temperature) and more. Cooking is a great way to do this.

Basic problem solving. "I have 6 cherries and I would like to share them with you and jane. How many will we each get?"

Factions. Cut a sandwich in half or a pizza into 8ths.

Counting money then making change... though this is kind of advanced at 2. 

Patterns. Blue, red, green, blue, red, green etc.

Telling Time.

And so much more... I am working on a toddler curriculum that I call my "Conversational Curriculum" Basically so far it is list of things that a parent can teach their child in an everyday conversational way. It is a little on the back burner for now. Been working on helping Larry with the Reading Bear's Launch in October.

[Stodd]

Thank you Korrale4kq for your help. We've been playing with shapes and patterns also, but I got some new ideas.
Thanks.

[studentfirst2]

Have you tried using other methods to teach math? Maybe sticking to one program is not the best option.

[timandsveta]

I've been wondering the same thing; is it worth it? I have 2-year old twins, and I didn't find out about Doman math program until after they turned two and started with them at 2 years and 1 month. Because they were 6 weeks premature, I hope we have a bit of extra time before they lose the ability to recognize quantity. So far, and we've been doing the program for over two months daily, I haven't noticed any results. They like the math cards, and enjoy Little Math, so I plan on carrying on, but it seems that that they enjoy playing with cards and making hats out of them just as much as they like me presenting them

We are pushing it agewise with the math program, but I figured it can't hurt to try. What's the worse that can happen? - They won't learn and I've wasted some money, time and effort. But, it can't hurt them to try. They are having fun. It gives us something to do. I bought the cards from Gentle Revolution web site instead of making them, so the hardest part for me to is to try to find the time to fit the math session when the girls are both not running around and are sort of paying attention, which is not that easy with toddlers. I wish I knew about this program when they were under one. At the younger age, I think it's totally worth it. And, it can't hurt them to try at the older age. With all the money spent on clothes and toys, it seems like a reasonable expense.

I wish that Doman cards came with equality and plus, mines, equal signs, etc. But, I find it's nice to have different media to present the cards, i.e. the cards themselves and Little Math. Mixing it up helps with active toddlers. So, to sum it up, I think it's worth the try even if your kids are a bit older.

[MummyRoo]

I agree that it is definitely worth it - there may not be a huge age-ability difference like we see in reading, but we are teaching our children to feel comfortable with math and numbers when most children very quickly develop a fear of numbers. Mathematics is a language and as such is learned better and with much less effort the younger you start

[patriotic1]

Thanks for this this thread. I was torn on if and when to start my daughter with math. She is only 4.5 months and we just started Doman 2 weeks ago. We haven't even gotten to the dot portion of the training. I think am going to stick with the dots. I've looked into the Shichida 65Math breakdown and I believe I can replicate this on my own.

I was so focused on the subject of math that I had tunnel vision of all the cool things I will be able to expose her to using math in everyday life. Thank you Korrale4kq for reminding me of thinking outside of the box. BTW, What is reading bear?

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