Number Sense Series-Ten Frames

[Chris1]

I hope that you find this site useful-  http://nrich.maths.org/public/viewer.php?obj_id=2479&part=

[Ayesha Nicole]

Dear Chris1,

Thank you for sharing this.  Umm - how and when do we use this?     I sense from your posts about math that you are far better at it than I am.  So, I am a little nervous teaching my children the Doman math program.  I hope that my girls get their father's sense of math because I will not be able to help them much - except with a calculator.     This is one thing that I hate about the American education system - we learn only one method of solving math problems, and it is longest and the hardest.  My husband is Egyptian and they learned all sorts of little shortcuts to perform math in their head rapidly.  I feel dumbed down mathematically compared to our friends. 

And would you please clarify for me, because it is a little unclear, your stance on the Doman math method?  I recently received the math kit and will read the book to understand the program.  First I want to become a little more comfortable with the reading program.  And I also want to complete reading the Physical Superbness book as well and begin our little fitness program - which is forcing me to start exercising again.  So, basically within a few weeks I will be ready to begin the program.   

Any advice you have will be appreciated.

Thanks.
Ayesha

[Chris1]

Dear Ayesha,

I am sure that you will be able to help your daughters with their understanding of maths. I started GD maths with my son shortly after his birth and he clearly derived pleasure from seeing the earlier cards-if he was upset the cards would immediately calm him. He only responded this way to the larger cards that i had prepared covering quantities 1-14.
 I don't know whether GD maths contributes much towards a child's understanding of maths-provided your babies are enjoying the sessions you will have nothing to lose.  You have to ask why the IAHP fail to inform parents that the ability to subitize larger quantities and perform rapid calculations is not retained.
 
other activities- What comes next?

What to do       Prepare a set of black and white cards
Place some cards on the floor that follow a sequence and ask "What comes next".   This activity develops logical thinking skills and was used by Richard Feynman's father.       BBWBBWBB?  BWBWBW?  You could also use shapes  circle,circle,square,circle,circle,square,circle,?

Encourage counting every day - count everything , four plates, four knifes at the table, number of buttons on shirts, cats in the garden etc. Whilst walking comment on the number of ducks in the pond, people waiting for the bus, dogs having a walk.

Use wooden blocks and construct a tower of ten and ask your child to build a tower next to yours-count as they build the tower and show/discuss how many more blocks are needed to finish the tower. This activity will teach number bonds to ten              9 can be seen as 1 less than 10 etc.
This activity can be extended to teach place value-e.g show a numeral card and build the number. I used cards with spots to construct the larger quantities -e.g  numeral 24 constructed from  2 ten cards and a card with 4 dots

Introduce activities that encourage your children to categorise by size-find the biggest and smallest doll, prepare a set of cards and arrange in order of size also introduce the appropriate language-largest,smaller,smaller,smallest.  The cards could contain the same picture varying in size.

Teach shapes and discuss when your out-how many circles can you find-road signs , wheels, hubcaps etc

To begin with, early number activities are best done with moveable objects such as counters, blocks and small toys. Most children will need the concrete experience of physically manipulating groups of objects into sub-groups and combining small groups to make a larger group.

These are just a few of the activities that you could introduce alongside GD maths. Please also see Abacus training with the Soroban.

Chris

[Maddy]

Karma to you Chris! I will read those nrich pages with interest. Thanks for the great teaching suggestions, too - double karma!

Now, I'm confused about something though. You said...

You have to ask why the IAHP fail to inform parents that the ability to subitize larger quantities and perform rapid calculations is not retained.

I know the IAHP admitted that the ability to subitize larger quantities is not retained - they admitted that in their conversation with DomanMom.

But did they actually admit that the ability to do instant math is not retained?

My understanding was that as long as you developed the ability to do instant math while you were able to perceive quantity, you would be able to keep doing instant math... forever.

Where (if anywhere) did you read that kids lose the ability to do instant math?

Thanks

Maddy

[Maddy]

Oh yes... Kyles Mom quoted DomanMom in the thread that linked me to this thread! And I quote her quote...!

The child must progress to the point where he doesn't just see the numbers on a card (which he will soon not be able to do anymore) but that he sees the numbers in his head. He must be able to manipulate the numbers in his head, he must know them front and back, knowing not only the number but its relation to other numbers, knowing that "fifty" is half of 100 and 1 less than 51 and 30 less than 80. He must know that "twenty eight" is a third of 94 and half of 56, that it's the product of 2 and 14, and 7 and 4, that it's the sum of 20 and 8 and the difference of 30 and 2. If it's all in his head, he'll have it for life, and he must get to that point before he loses the ability to "see" quantity.

Yup, that's where I got the idea that you can lose the ability to perceive quantity without losing the ability to do instant math.

Clearly that's the idea DomanMom got from her conversation with the IAHP spokesperson. Whether they said it explicitly or implied it, I don't know.

[Chris1]

Hi Maddy,

Sorry for the delay-just back from hols.
 
Extract from an email to the IAHP along with their response-Thank you for taking the time to reply to my email.  I have one remaining question regarding verbal responses. You have confirmed that the very young appear to recognize quantity, and derive some visible pleasure from doing so and that this ability appears to disappear between 2 and 5. Does the ability to do rapid calculations disappear at the same time? Why would a child with competent verbal skills be able to demonstrate an ability to perform complex calculations by selecting the correct card whilst being unable to answer much easier questions verbally?
My investigations on the Internet suggest that the ability to perform rapid mental calculations also appears to disappear between 2 and 5.

This is the reply that I received-

“I regret to say that I do not have any reliable data on which to base a reply to your question.  I am also not convinced that the assumptions implicit in your question can be validated; I have seen no studies which would validate them.  I also question whether the Internet is a reliable source of information on these questions, unless it leads you to studies which are validated; but I certainly wish you will in your ongoing investigations.”

Please see 
http://forum.brillkids.com/teaching-your-child-math/doman-math-success-mail-from-iahp/msg38169/#msg38169

"Point #2: The verbal responses explained in page 175 is this:

"A child of two does exactly and precisely what pleases him the most. If he wishes to shout out his equations, he may do so. If he does not wish to say them, he won't. The point is to....recognize his right to demonstrate his knowledge in the way he chooses-or-not at all."

As far as I have read from other parents' experiences, they don't indicate an element of wishing/not wishing to say. They mention the "inability" to say the correct answer...Mmh...don't know what to make out of this.

Point #4: Skipped! I wonder why..."

chris

[Maddy]

Thanks Chris. Hope you had a great holiday.

I recently received a similar reply from the IAHP when I asked how, if at all, Glenn Doman's ideas were influenced by his reading of Maria Montessori (even if the two methods do diverge greatly in practice).

The response was: "I have no information about Glenn Doman's interest or influence by the Montessori method."

[ariel]

After reading this post, I am doubting myself. 
 
If results of doman math are not retained then why teach it at all?  I am just so confused.    I understand that one has nothing to lose by teaching it.  But if you are a full time working mother and are short on time, is it better for me to try teaching Encyclopedia knowledge?   So far I was going with the plan of teaching reading and math and when math is done to add EK.  But it seems if I close math, my baby will begin to forget stuff.  How do I prevent that from happenning?  Do I have to practice with her once a week or more? 

Or as Mandi sited, how do you get to the point that the child knows math this much:

Quote
The child must progress to the point where he doesn't just see the numbers on a card (which he will soon not be able to do anymore) but that he sees the numbers in his head. He must be able to manipulate the numbers in his head, he must know them front and back, knowing not only the number but its relation to other numbers, knowing that "fifty" is half of 100 and 1 less than 51 and 30 less than 80. He must know that "twenty eight" is a third of 94 and half of 56, that it's the product of 2 and 14, and 7 and 4, that it's the sum of 20 and 8 and the difference of 30 and 2. If it's all in his head, he'll have it for life, and he must get to that point before he loses the ability to "see" quantity.

I would like to go on to EK as soon as Math is done as I think EK is just as important.  And she should be exposed to many different things before she starts narrowing her interests. 

Thanks much!

[Chris1]

Ten Frame cards are available from American Classroom Supply.  48 cards for $12.95

http://www.american-classroom-supply.com/elp402626.html

They also sell place value cards for $7.99
http://www.american-classroom-supply.com/fs-013515.html

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