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Author Topic: Take the Math Dot Test  (Read 13958 times)
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Chris1
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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2009, 04:07:15 PM »

I took the test a few more times and found that i was able to get a much higher score-didn't repeat at least 25 times as required to obtain an accurate result-my average result might have been lower had i continued. The site indicates that the average result is around 75%, but doesn't indicate the average score of people good at maths-presumably the difference is measurable but might not be that much higher.
The test is a measure of our ability to compare quantity and here is a list of the quantities over several tests.

10-12 15-11 13-8  7-5 12-8 10-6 10-8 10-7 12-6 10-5 8-7 10-5 8-5 9-12 11-5 10-7 12-9 7-5 6-5 12-15 15-10 9-11

As you can see -the difference between the colors is significant on most. Ratio as with research with babies matters

"Experiments 1 and 2 investigated whether infants/babies ’ numerosity discrimination depends on the ratio of the two set sizes with even larger numerosities. Infants successfully discriminated between arrays of 16 vs. 32 discs, but not 16 vs. 24 discs, providing evidence that their discrimination shows the set-size ratio signature of numerosity discrimination in human adults, children, and many non-human animals."

The latest research appears to confirm that babies can subitize. Many studies suggest that babies can distinguish quantities up to three (Starkey & Cooper, 1980; Starkey,Spilke&Gelman1990;Strauss & Curtis 1981) This is shown by habituation studies. So long as the numbers are within their subitization range they do not seem to be dependent on the pattern in which the objects are arranged. If a baby is habituated to three items arranged in a triangular pattern (s)he will still treat them as the same old three if they are represented in a straight line. This contrasts with their reaction to numbers over 3. Tan and Bryant(2000) found that these can be recognized if, and only if, the pattern remained the same.


"the error in numerosity representations is
proportional to numerical magnitude, and therefore discriminability between two
numerosities depends on their ratio"

(Starkey & Cooper, 1980):
Slides were projected on a screen in front of babies sitting on their mother’s lap.
The time a baby spent looking at each slide before turning away was carefully
monitored. When the baby started looking elsewhere, a new slide appeared on
the screen. At first, the slides contained two large black dots. During the trials,
the baby was shown the same numbers of dots, though separated horizontally
by different distances. After a while, the baby would start looking at the slides
for shorter and shorter periods of time. This is technically called habituation;
nontechnically, the baby got bored.
The slides were then changed without warning to three black dots. Immediately
the baby started to stare longer, exhibiting what psychologists call a longer
fixation time. The consistent difference of fixation times informs psychologists
that the baby could tell the difference between two and three dots. The experiment
was repeated with the three dots first, then the two dots. The results were
the same. These experiments were first tried with babies between four and five
months of age, but later it was shown that newborn babies at three or four days
showed the same results (Antell & Keating, 1983). These findings have been
replicated not just with dots but with slides showing objects of different shapes,
sizes, and alignments (Strauss & Curtis, 1981). Such experiments suggest that
the ability to distinguish small numbers is present in newborns, and thus that
there is at least some innate numerical capacity.


« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 04:35:34 PM by Chris1 » Logged
patreiche
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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2009, 04:35:33 PM »

Well you are right seeing more of one color definitely is part of this test. That is how I determine which is more by which color I see in my mind after it flashes. I am sure that is why they have different size dots so that is not the case. In some of these test I am sure the one with less dots may have bigger dots. I haven't really examined this but I am sure this is the case. The different sizes should resolve the question of seeing more area in one color.

Yes Chris, several of the comparisons are more then 1 or 2 dots apart.  If we are scoring high 80s to 100 we are getting the more complicated comparisions right. The different size dots also effect the results and make getting the right answer more difficult. If this many people are scoring high I say there is an inherent ability and not simply cuing as you suggest.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 04:38:32 PM by patreiche » Logged

Chris1
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« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2009, 04:45:05 PM »

Hi Patreiche, Pls see amended reply above-i think your response arrived as i was adding research evidence-
"Experiments 1 and 2 investigated whether infants/babies ’ numerosity discrimination depends on the ratio of the two set sizes with even larger numerosities. Infants successfully discriminated between arrays of 16 vs. 32 discs, but not 16 vs. 24 discs, providing evidence that their discrimination shows the set-size ratio signature of numerosity discrimination in human adults, children, and many non-human animals."

I agree that it is an inherent ability but it does not support the claims made by IAHP. Please try the following test-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6577241.stm 

« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 04:48:18 PM by Chris1 » Logged
patreiche
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« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2009, 04:55:45 PM »

It sounds like all your studies do not flash the slides at a high rate of speed which is the key to the test I posted and to right brain math. KL will we be able to change the speed the math cards are flashed at? If the slides are not flashed at a high rate of speed which is what I read in your post but instead changed when the baby turns away then they do not relate to this test. Yes I have taken your other test and the two things do not relate. In your test we are counting not perceiving quantity, big difference. The right brain only kicks in on comparisons because we have been taught language of math (counting etc) which is totally different part of the brain. Did you read that one article I posted on the two areas of brain involved in math. You are trying to compare apples and oranges.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 05:06:17 PM by patreiche » Logged

Chris1
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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2009, 05:03:36 PM »

Why are there no examples of babies/infants that are able to give verbal responses?

I know that the tests measure different things-just concerned by the 0% success rate of GD maths with regard to verbal response. 

Baby brains are hard-wired for math-Analysis illustrated that babies have similar brain activity to that of adults when served with correct and incorrect mathematical solutions. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14254290/

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9BFAX55W1TQ&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/9BFAX55W1TQ&rel=1</a>

« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 05:28:27 PM by Chris1 » Logged
patreiche
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« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2009, 06:02:45 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/09/15/science/20080915_NUMBER_SENSE_GRAPHIC.htm
Here is the Math test to try. I am afraid you might get lost in other math tests which are posted.

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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2009, 09:40:56 PM »

I asked my children to try the test-they scored 80%, 79% and 80%.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 09:54:21 PM by Chris1 » Logged
Nikolett
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« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2009, 10:34:13 PM »

Good idea, I'll get mine to do that. Will be interesting to see if dot program helped, though I only did the numbers. blush

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« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2009, 02:23:07 AM »

That's a neat test. Really interesting how the extremely brief showing forces you to use your "right brain".

I was amazed that I was getting all of them right when I first started taking it, at how perceptive I could be. I ended up getting 100% after 20 tries and then I quit. Thanks for sharing!

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