The Future of Math??

[cokers4life]

Here is a great TED talk where Conrad Wolfman really digs deep into the idea that the future of how we teach math might really need to change due to the tremendous impact computers have on math and society. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/60OVlfAUPJg&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/60OVlfAUPJg&rel=1</a>

I am checking out his website here: http://www.wolfram.com/solutions/precollege/

There is another site where someone else is using his concepts to develop math at the primary level.  Its very basic, but certainly you could let your child explore the concepts on their own.   The CDF plug-in is simple to download and use.   I am not sure how appealing it would be for the youngest of children, but the simple interface might appeal to them.    http://www.mastermaths.org/

The idea of giving up the hours of hand written math excersises is non-traditional, but it something interesting to consider as we move towards a very computer based society.    I like the fact that he talks about introducing calculus concepts much earlier than is traditionally done.

[IrisGranstedt]

Thank you for sharing the link. It's very interesting.

I totally agree that the form Maths that is currently taught is still very victorian - It makes a lot more sense to teach a deeper understanding of maths concept e.g. what is exactly are we trying to achieve with all these different maths concept and be able to experiment with different factors is way more important then being able to follow 'procedures'. Too much time is wasted in school learning the ability to copy between lines to show the 'steps' and to look up tables correctly... 

[Niniedney]

I LOVE TedTalks!!! If you liked this one they have a lot more

[sonya_post]

I'm not sure I'm buying into this. We certainly don't teach math in any Victorian manner if we did our students would be able to add and subtract and count change when they graduated HS. They can't. We have unfilled jobs in this country because employers need people who can do mental math on the fly but can't find people to do it. One company in Illinois has something like 100 job vacancies. The unemployment rate is not just about the economy but about kids graduating from HS and college unable to do simple math without a calculator.  The "New Math" was supposed to revolutionize math by cutting out rote memorization and getting to the 'deeper meaning" but it has been an abysmal failure. All this experimenting has done nothing but handicap the current generation of graduates. New Math has done nothing but create burger flippers. There is a lot in this I found interesting but I don't think there is any substitute for learning manual computation.

[Tanikit]

I am doing a course on mathematical thinking on coursera - it is addressed at people about to begin university mathematics and says that people leaving high school are not ready to think mathematically. It also, in its introdcution, addresses New Math and says that the idea was to teach younger children to think mathematically the way that is expected in colleges and universities, but that it did not work. I think it did not work because you cannot learn to think mathematically without having basic arithmetic - it is pointless to continually be finding exciting and new ways to solve 2+5= - how can you move on to solving real world problems if you cannot do basic arithmetic fast and reliably and that requires either a lot of practice or pure memorization. There is nothing wrong with teaching the fastest way to solve an arithmetic problem - yes, children should understand what they are doing, yes, they need to be able to formulate a problem... but they also need to be able to write their problem down in a way that people can read it and that it becomes easier to solve.

Why is the writing part so important? Well when using a computer programme to solve mathematical problems or even when using a simple calculator the problem must be put into the machine in the correct order or the symbols must be put into the computer with the parentheses in the correct place - forget even one parenthesis and you will get the wrong answer. So while they may be able to use machines to compute one day it is still important to realise at a young age that the way they write their problems down or type them in is very important and can determine whether they get it right or not.

Also by doing more advanced maths courses for revision I realise why we teach children to show the steps - because it avoids errors. I often leave out as many steps as possible and combine endless steps to speed through things, but many times I end up making a careless mistake by trying to do too many things mentally - not always and there are certain steps I will always leave out because they are just a waste of time.

High school maths possibly does need to change - I have not evaluated it yet or really thought much about it. Arithmetic and basic operations will always be needed for real life general living and also for more advanced math. Children need to understand what they are doing, understand why they need to know it and also be able to do it with ease and mentally. You cannot teach a 2 year old to count to 10 without repetition - you cannot teach them to understand this - it just is and it is in actual fact vocabulary and language rather than maths though the concept of quantity must accompany it. So Math begins as language and should remain as such - if children understand language they will far better understand math.

[Tamsyn]

Yay, kids took a nap and I got to watch it.  Thank you so much for sharing!

I agree with all of you.   

Kids need to be able to learn the basics, and be fluent in the basics without a computer.  I think I'll still steer clear of calculators for the time being.  Having said that, what a fascinating idea, introducing children to Calculus much earlier.  I think there is plenty of room for "math play", while doing computing by hand separately.  Sonya is right about the shortage of people that can count change.  I was a cashier for a time and because my mother had taught me how to count change I did very well at it.  Many times older people who came through my line complimented me for counting back the change correctly and they said it was so refreshing to know that young people could still do it.  That surprised me until I saw how some of my co-workers really struggled with it.  There was a man who came through my line and appeared to have a difficult time understanding how I counted the money back to him.  I did it 3 times before he was satisfied and he left.  The next day he came back and avoided my line.  The following day they showed us his picture in our morning meeting and told us to watch out for him.  They showed how he had stolen $50 with a bit of math trickery.  First he tries to pay with a $100 bill and the receipt says you owe so much.  Then while you are counting out change he offers a smaller bill instead so you switch bills and then he tries to confuse you by counting it wrong and he walks out with a $50 bill.  I had no clue that this is what he was trying to do, I just thought he was really dumb.  Apparently it's an old trick.  There is still a very real need to develop the calculator in our head.

Still, technology like this can really help young children get their foot in the door as they learn higher math.  They can "play" with higher math while very young, and when they are ready to do a deeper study, it will seem easy because the basic elements have already been learned.  I'm looking forward to looking more into his site.  Thanks again. 
, a

[sonya_post]

A calculator can't fix this. Just sayin'.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qhm7-LEBznk&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Qhm7-LEBznk&rel=1</a>

[Korrale4kq]

I am with the majority here too. How odd of me.

This new math may be great for those that have an affinity for it. But for the average student it is horrid. I tutor kids who use a reform math curriculum and it is shocking how little they really understand. They know how to play the games, and how to do shortcuts like multiplication with a lattice. But they have no idea what they are doing. My student that I tutor was taught to do math by being given a problem and trying to figure it out anyway she wanted to. That exploration was fun in the lower elementary grades and there was no right or wrong way to do a problem.  However she is now in 5th grade and she screams at me because how she wants to do a problem her way is the way that is right. According to her....
She doesn't realise that math is logical, and  formulaic and relies on true facts rather than opinions.  She thinks answers are right because that is the way she would figure it out.

I have a friend who worked for a Sylvan Learning Center.  When her school district introduced a reform math curriculum her tutoring center was making bank. The center even tried to get the school district to see the harm of what they were doing collectively to the children who were now struggling to understand math.

[PokerDad]

I have a friend who worked for a Sylvan Learning Center.  When her school district introduced a reform math curriculum her tutoring center was making bank.

This tells you everything you need to know about that particular curriculum.

I watched a different Ted talk while eating my dinner and just frowned with disappointment. Listen to the whiny phrases he repeats; I could envision the type of snotty/ignorant kid saying these sorts of things... and the teacher's response to their ignorance is to dumb down the populace further so that more people are innumerate, and yet we're supposed to compete in a global job marketplace?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xyowJZxrtbg&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/xyowJZxrtbg&rel=1</a>

This guy gets so many things wrong. For one, algebra is advanced? LOL. This isn't a joke - Ella the 4 year old can do harder problems than the ones he puts on the screen. Let's just dumb em down further....

As for writing: one method of dealing with dyslexic kids is to have them write with pen and paper, especially cursive. Another example is that Maria Montessori taught reading and writing simultaneously. There's something to the viseral experience of writing.

Tamsyn - I've heard of that con; I saw it on some documentary of some sorts; glad you didn't get suckered.

[Korrale4kq]

Oh my Sonya. Your video just showed up. Classic! Hahaha.

[teachingmykids]

The local schools in my current area were using new math and the schools where I grew up switched to it in recent years. It has been an abysmal failure.  The local schools finally ditched it because parents did not like the program and didn't even know how to help their kids but I am not familiar with the program they are now using and how it teaches math (go math) When my husband worked as a substitute teacher he was subbing for a high school first year algebra class and kids were asking for calculators when they were not even working with big numbers and he wouldn't let them.

[sonya_post]

Korrale,

Right?  'Nuff said.

[PokerDad]

Sanya,

the video was so bad that I figured it had to be a troll; no one can be that stupid, can they? (or can they?)

[sonya_post]

These are my son's friends who attend public school. My brother-in-law works for a company that makes special tire frames for the race car industry. He said that the situation is so bad that they basically say, "Come here" and if they can do that they will hire them - $20 an hour. Small town with the average home price of $65,000. This is more than a living wage.  A company in my local town gave an interview with the local paper and said, "All we want is for people to be able to answer the phone and we can't find them."

My husband hired a girl from the local college for a summer job, education major. She told him about the books she was reading - while she was at work. He explained to her that this was not appropriate. He has a form for phone messages and requires that it be used. Four weeks into the job she still couldn't/wouldn't use it because she'd forget. But that is ok, she wrote the message down - with no return phone number and no name. Her response, "Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that." He fired her. That was his 3rd college student with good references. Minimum wage went up and we won't hire summer help anymore, they aren't worth it.

Two summers ago, I had to have a conference with the summer hire. I had to explain how business works and that she has to earn her keep or we can't keep her and pay her. We can't afford to lose money. She looked at me very serious and said, "Well, I've never had a job where I had to work before."  My response,"My advice to you is that you never repeat that again. To anyone." She was entering into her senior year of college. She came with glowing recommendations from the college library.

No, we are producing adults who are that stupid, ignorant, or something. Something is happening. My 17 y/o son claims that most of the kids he attends classes with are like this. Not all to this extreme, but frightening none-the-less.

[PokerDad]

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that.

The one thing she's paid to do? Wow. And that's FOUR weeks into it?

Minimum wage went up and we won't hire summer help anymore, they aren't worth it.

A lot of people that have no business background or mathematical sense miss this; and I'm talking very high up people. If someone can't produce equal or better than the wage they're paid, they don't get hired. Hence, minimums actually will cause the lowest of the low to become less employable.

The worst part of your story, though, was this:

My husband hired a girl from the local college for a summer job, education major.

Sums up the problem right there. These are the ones teaching kids and churning out a new innumerate and illiterate generation. Maybe we should just teach everything on the computer and bypass this problem?

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