Piano Wizard

[HH]

HH and Chris,

Sorry to butt in on this ongoing conversation. May I offer my humble opinion? Maybe each of you guys can offer an uninterested third party a sample copy of your programs to use and compare (some members of this forum come to mind - DomanMom, DadDude although he may currently be too busy with his new son to do it, waterdreamer, etc) and write a comparative review of them. The review would not be a scientific comparison (not even close), but at least it would offer us parents a real life example of someone who has used both methods and it will give us some idea of the pros and cons of each method. What do you say?

I will answer this a bit later! Promis! 

[HH]

First of all, thank you Chris and Hellene for keeping this conversation civil.  I trust it will remain to be so, without any unnecessary confrontational language.  I would also suggest keeping your comments as far as possible to your own product, and not the other party's.

I have actually tried both products, courtesy of Hellene and Chris, so I can comment a little on both of them.

I first tried Soft Mozart about a year or more ago (soon after Hellene joined the forum), and was exploring with her to have Soft Mozart be a Product Partner.  Ultimately, it did not materialize because Hellene's online cart system does not allow coupon codes to be entered.

More recently, we have been working with Chris both as a Product Partner-to-be, as well as for him to contribute to the forum to share his vast expertise.

As for the products, I have tried both and I can see advantages in each.  However, the clear choice between the two would be Piano Wizard.  Here are some reasons:

1. It's much easier to install and to get set up.  This is especially if you get PW with the midi keyboard, in which case you'd have to get nothing extra - you're ready to get started when you get the package.  With SM, I had to get not only a midi keyboard but also a midi interface, and getting the drivers to work.  It was not easy, and this is coming from someone who used midi equipment a lot before.

2. The PW software interface is much more polished than SM's.  I'm guessing that SM's system was created during the days of DOS (pre-windows) because in many places, it shows.

3. There is a lot more guidance from PW on how to use the system, in the form of video tutorials etc.

4. As far as I can recall, the song library in PW is much larger.

5. PW has a structured curriculum.  I do not remember this to be the case with SM but I may be mistaken (if so, apologies!)

There are more, but the rest would be finer points.

All this is off the top of my head because I haven't used either in a while, mainly because Felicity is enrolled with Yamaha piano.  Having said that, Felicity did (out of the blue!) ask to play PW just the other day. Unfortunately, I couldn't remember where I put the midi keyboard (we recently moved house).

Regarding the point about the use of colors, I see absolutely no problem with that personally.  Both systems use stickers as a crutch.  SM uses signs and symbols (colors too, actually, though in a lesser way), whereas PW uses colors.  Both are a crutch.  Training wheels, as Chris put it, which is a wonderful comparison.  I'm all for crutches and training wheels if they make mastery easier.  I certainly believe they do.

I will answer this later

[HH]

Chris,
I would never do it if I won’t have deepest concern for music education and parents who read us on that forum. I asked you to provide me with simple facts: you were given me commercial pitching again.
I asked my question about music educators for an important reason: there have to be a gradual growth from intuitive to professional technique. If (as you claim) your students are learning so many pieces in minutes, you should have at least couple of great performers already (we came on market at the same time).
You don’t have any data on reading music success rate with Piano Wizard,  all your promises to people are based on opinion of one-two professional musicians (I am also a professor btw!), who in some point personally related to you in the past. Sorry, we are talking about well-being of our kids here!  If we give them wrong treatment, when they are ill, the consequences could be harsh, but instant, Wrong approaching in teaching could cripple their lives!
Anyway, here what I have to share with you and people on this forum about Soft Mozart.
What did make you think that we work just with educators? Our program designed for self-learners and home-scholars of any age, BUT they introduce to all aspects of professional music education from the very start. Here some videos:
This guy self- learning original version of ‘Musette’ by Bach (2nd grade of music school in Russia).
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/gageOYLCH2A&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/gageOYLCH2A&rel=1</a>
This girl never played piano before either. She learned Waltz-joke by Shostakovich in 3 weeks (in Russian music schools it is for 6-7 grade recital piece):
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/vTBH6HFtkCU&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/vTBH6HFtkCU&rel=1</a>
Here is 3 year old girl self-learning ‘Menuet’ by Bach (Petzold) in 3 weeks (also the piece for 2-3 grade of Russian music schools)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/IL1hjrNCKAc&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/IL1hjrNCKAc&rel=1</a>
Can you show me the videos like that? When I see students performing/learning some original pieces (not adoptions) as it referred to music classes? (to be continued…)

[HH]

2. How many piano teachers/schools are currently using your product? Did you provide any surveys about the results? Could we see it?
Soft Mozart is being used in 13 different countries. We had been provided a survey among volunteer music educators. I am happy to publish it first time on the internet:
Amount of participants: 38            

Countries: 13
USA          12      31.57%
UK          1        2.63%
Russia          7      18.42%
Ukraine        7      18.42%
Norway       1        2.63%
Slovakia       1        2.63%
Israel          2        5.26%
Germany       2        5.26%
Mexico       1        2.63%
Thailand       1        2.63%
Canada          1        2.63%   
Costa Rica       1        2.63%   
Spain          1        2.63%

Answers
Question 1 Are you teaching Soft Mozart to teach or to learn by yourself
Amount of answers           38
Teach                  37
Teach and learn             1

Question 2 Did you receive ‘Soft Mozart’ training and certification?
Amount of answers          38
Yes                27      71.05%
No                11      28.94%


Question 3. Do you think, training and certification is important in teaching ‘Soft Mozart’
system?
Amount of answers         37
Yes                28      73.68%         
No                  2        5.26%
Don’t know              7      18.42%

Question 4. How many years have you used the program?
Amount of answers          38
Minimum – Maximum       1 - 5
Average time               2 years


Question 5.  If you are a music educator, what degree do you have?
Amount of Answers       38         100%
Bachelor          12         31.57%   
Master          15         39.47%
Doctorate           3           7.89%
N/a             8         21.05%


Question 6. You use Soft Mozart with the following level student
Amount of answers       56
 Intermediate          20         35.71%
Beginner          34         60.71%
Advanced           2           3.57%

Question 7. How many students do you teach with Soft Mozart?
Amount of answers       34
Minimum           1
Maximum          150
Average         16

Question 8. Do you teach multiple students at the same time?
Amount of answers       29
Yes             14         48.27%
No            15         51.72%

Question 9. If the answer to Question 9 is Yes, how many?
Amount of answers      15
Minimum            2
Maximum          11
Average            4.26

Question 10. What is their age range?
Amount of answers:       33
Minimum            2 year old
Maximum          82 year old

Question 11. Did Soft Mozart help you to improve your studio?
Amount of answers       35
Yes            29         82%
No            1         2.85%
N/a            5         14.28%

Question 12. You use Soft Mozart
Amount of answers      37
all the time           6         16.21%
most of the time       19         51.35%
sometimes          12         32.43%
not at all         0


Question 13 On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the most favorable) how has Soft Mozart helped you/your children/your students improve music-reading abilities?
Amount of answers      37
Average          8.70


Question 14. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the most favorable) how do you think Soft Mozart helped you/your children/your students to develop musical ear and memory?
Amount of answers       36
Average          8.77

Question 15. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the most favorable) how do you think Soft Mozart helped you/your children/your students to develop a love for making music?
Amount of answers       36
Average          8.86


Question 16. Which method is your preferred method of teaching beginner students?
Amount of answers       44
Traditional             10      22.72%
Soft Mozart          33      75 %
Other 1 (own)           1       2.27 %

Question 17. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being most favorable) do you believe Soft Mozart can help improve public and/or private school music curriculum?
Amount of answers       36
Average          9.41

Question 18. Please rate effectiveness (10 being the most effective) of the following methods of teaching beginner students to read and play music on the piano in terms of time and proficiency.

Traditional 
Answers          35
Time  average          4.77
Proficiency average      5.74

Soft Mozart
Answers          35
Time average          8.97
Proficiency          9.2

Other
Answers          12
Time   average       5.66
Proficiency   average    5.91
Question 19.  Do you think Soft Mozart motivates students to learn music literacy?
Answers       38
Yes           38
No          0

Question 20. Do you have students who have not successfully learned to play and read music with Soft Mozart?
Answers       36

Yes          4          11.11%

 No          32         88.88%

Question 21. How many lessons does an average beginning student of yours usually take before he/she is ready to proficiently play at the first recital? Please indicate the estimate as it pertains to your previous experience with the traditional method as well as with Soft
Mozart.
Amount of answers                24

Traditional method  average :           25. 87
Soft Mozart average:                10.45         

Question 22. How did you find out about “Soft Mozart”?
Amount of answers                38
Internet related answers            28
Personal recommendation            9
Book for educators                1

[HH]

3. Had your friend's/teacher's curriculum been endorsed by any music institution? is he having any articles about the system published in any professional magazine or book for educators (not commercial, but scientific)?

Soft Mozart had been endorsed by Madrid and Moscow conservatories.
Article' Soft Way to Mozart' written by Hellene Hiner was published in a book for educators
Currently 1 dissertation was written in Ukraine and one is getting ready in Russia

Soft Mozart is being taught for future educators in several universities of Russia, Ukraine and Spain.

5. Do you have any winners of piano competitions, who started learning with your software and ended up on big stage?

Winner of competition  in Ukraine (taught by Soft Mozart trainee)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lpM0QiX36wQ&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/lpM0QiX36wQ&rel=1</a>
Playing with orchestra:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Dae_sfOme6c&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Dae_sfOme6c&rel=1</a>

[HH]

Here what kind of video I wish to see from Piano Wizard that actually shows the RESULTS of teaching to read music power:

I received this videos from home school parent (Slovakia) The kid has autism. Here how is he started:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/QyJ03POtr80&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/QyJ03POtr80&rel=1</a>

Here he plays a song that from sheet music

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oTB-A3xJGAY&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/oTB-A3xJGAY&rel=1</a>

I really want to see this kind of videos from Piano Wizard!

[HH]

And now I will answer your, why our program is not fancy packaged and aggresively promoted yet,

We invested most of our efforts in science, research and results, before to come out and make any seriouse promises to our customers. We made sure that our approach is not cousing any harm and actually teach from scratch to university level. I wrote a lot of articles and a book to discribe the invention, As you see we were pretty busy with that and I am very happy to present the result of our hard work to you.

As for technical difficulties and wrapping quality... I would say: you don't pick food for your kid based on how appealing the wrapping of it, Do you read labels? Why the educational products should be treated differently? 

[HH]

And here is some references from National artist of Russia, pianist Yuri Rozum http://www.yurirozum.com/

http://www.softmozart.com/Site/discussion.php?discussion=97

Here is a letter from vice-dean of Madrid conservatory and other professionals:

http://www.softmozart.com/Site/discussion.php?discussion=89

As for written testimonies, I have so many of them in so many languages that I afraid it would be too much.

Hope, my presentation was helpful!

Regards, Hellene Hiner

[ChrisSalter]

Hellene,

First of all congratulations for the work you have done, and the recognition you have achieved. Few people understand like I do what sacrifice that entailed for you. As I said before, there are many ways to the top of the mountain, it looks like you found a way too! I admire you, I really do, on many levels. Your passion, your conviction, your work ethic, your research, all great. Yet somehow if I don't match you orange for orange, you seem to feel we don't have any fruit at all.

What you have is called third party validation. Reviews are one kind, white papers another, videos, testimonials, surveys, these are all attempts to show people that someone else other than ourselves validates this. You think a white paper in the Ukraine is validation, I think a severely retarded boy's story is, and you know what? We are both right. We both found a better way. Is yours better than mine? Perhaps, perhaps not, perhaps it depends on the person using it, but we are both much better than traditional approaches. Is your program as good as it would be with real funding resources and more development? Probably not, your vision is probably like mine and already designing the next level and beyond. But what we have is miles ahead of what passed for piano lessons for hundreds of years. Rejoice in that, and that there are new approaches, even if they are not yours. As for harming the kids, I think we go too far there. No children were harmed in the playing of our game, in fact they were inspired and elevated, and you saw that proof yourself yet still made that silly suggestion. There is no "one" way, and we are all struggling to perfect our work every day and make it better. You saw my story of how it evolved, it is still evolving, as I am sure your thinking is. Again, we are much more pilgrims on the same path, and I think will have much more to share someday than to disparage. If you meet my friend Don, you will fall in love with him as a teacher and person. We are not the enemy, I don't know who is, but it ain't us!

Again, congrats on your great accomplishments. They do not diminish ours in any way, and vice versa.

Thanks

Chris

[KL]

Hellene,

Do you realize that in a topic about Piano Wizard, you've succeeded in totally hijacking it for the purposes of promoting Soft Mozart.  It is not only (in my humble opinion) unprofessional, but plain rude, not to mention totally counter-productive because you just come across very negatively.  I've PM'd you privately about it, but I guess my words of friendly advice seem to have fallen on deaf ears, so unfortunately you're leaving me no choice but to make my comments public.

And now I will answer your, why our program is not fancy packaged and aggresively promoted yet,

We invested most of our efforts in science, research and results, before to come out and make any seriouse promises to our customers. We made sure that our approach is not cousing any harm and actually teach from scratch to university level. I wrote a lot of articles and a book to discribe the invention, As you see we were pretty busy with that and I am very happy to present the result of our hard work to you.

As for technical difficulties and wrapping quality... I would say: you don't pick food for your kid based on how appealing the wrapping of it, Do you read labels? Why the educational products should be treated differently? 

Except it's not just about 'wrapping quality'. 

[Edited out my very blunt comments - I took Chris' advice.]

In a nutshell, I would recommend PW over SM to people ANY DAY, hands down.  It's not even close.

Here's my earlier review in case it was missed through the tons of posts you made:

As for the products, I have tried both and I can see advantages in each.  However, the clear choice between the two would be Piano Wizard.  Here are some reasons:

1. It's much easier to install and to get set up.  This is especially if you get PW with the midi keyboard, in which case you'd have to get nothing extra - you're ready to get started when you get the package.  With SM, I had to get not only a midi keyboard but also a midi interface, and getting the drivers to work.  It was not easy, and this is coming from someone who used midi equipment a lot before.

2. The PW software interface is much more polished than SM's.  I'm guessing that SM's system was created during the days of DOS (pre-windows) because in many places, it shows.

3. There is a lot more guidance from PW on how to use the system, in the form of video tutorials etc.

4. As far as I can recall, the song library in PW is much larger.

5. PW has a structured curriculum.  I do not remember this to be the case with SM but I may be mistaken (if so, apologies!)

There are more, but the rest would be finer points.

All this is off the top of my head because I haven't used either in a while, mainly because Felicity is enrolled with Yamaha piano.  Having said that, Felicity did (out of the blue!) ask to play PW just the other day. Unfortunately, I couldn't remember where I put the midi keyboard (we recently moved house).

Hellene, if you want to talk about SM, please do it in your own thread.  I also don't think you'll find Chris challenging SM the way you have been doing to PW, though I believe he would have many more things to say about it if he wanted to.

I hope I do not have to repeat myself.

Thank you.

[ChrisSalter]

Easy there KL, she's just passionate, I took no offense. She does not know my program nor has seen it in action, I truly believe once she does she will see we too have merit. This program of hers has also, she has shown that by finally talking about her program which she knows very well instead of mine, which she know not at all. People don't understand how hard it is to give birth to something like this, to hang on and build against the grain. I do understand, I think she will find that when she gets to know me in person rather than on a discussion board. I have known about her approach for a few years, and invited her to talk a few times, but as you can see she is a bit prickly and defensive, but it is her baby, and she is a momma bear. I get it. She has seen real results, and that knowing makes her passion come off a little too "certain". If it stimulates people to have hope that there are better solutions than what they grew up with, so much the better. I too, "know" that we have something special. I really just jumped in to clarify and make our case, not trash talk anybody, certainly not someone also committed to music education like she is. Let it ride.

Thanks

Chris

[KL]

Thanks, Chris.

I shall say no more about this matter.

I didn't intend to in the first place, and regret having had to do so.

[HH]

Dear Chris,
Thank you for being nice to me in this discussion!  I certainly pushed it to the limit! My apology for being harsh with you!
Once I wrote to you couple of years ago and I would repeat it again: I really wish to have a manager with your qualities. I am not a business person - just a woman inventor, who wants to change music education. You are much better than me in promotion, marketing and communications!  All my respect to you and your team!
Regards, Hellene Hiner
PS  Just uploaded a video – resume about this  crusade.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DIH9npACNUw&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/DIH9npACNUw&rel=1</a>

[Twinergy]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about PW and have reconsidered my earlier thoughts on the color coding system.  Perhaps the stigma that the color coding can become a crutch is from the days where kids learned piano starting with sheet music; I can see that being an issue.  But PW has developed a system to wean them off the color coding and I have seen no evidence, going through the negative reviews on amazon.com, that it is not effective at the transition.  In fact most of the negative reviews seem to fit the category of user error rather than an actual issue with the software. So we will be using PW this winter and I will start another thread about the experience. 

ETA: Thank you Chris for making it so affordable.

[Nikita]

Thanks Twinergy for being the first one to break the tension in the air. You couldv'e cut it with a knife!

Thanks to anyone who makes music easy to do and enjoyable, cos I can say I had my oldest 2 kids in piano lessons at school, and they Hated it. Thanks to the boring, strict and mean teacher they had. They went to another school and were taught in a fun way, learning a song each lesson, and loved it. They returned to the other school and begged to give up piano.

Any chance Soft way to Mozart and Piano Wizard could be used at the same time? Or not? Or will that just open up another can of worms me asking that? Dont want to start another heated discussion....

Now they hop on Youtube and hunt for any teaching clips for songs they like. Not going to be in an orchestra etc, but they dont seem to care, so I'll get over that they didnt achieve what I wanted them to with the piano...

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