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Author Topic: Start with Violin or Piano?  (Read 10630 times)
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tlyoung
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« on: October 27, 2012, 05:48:03 PM »

After watching NOVA's show on the brain (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/how-smart-can-we-get.html) I just had to ask those of you with children who are already being taught a musical instrument which  you stared  with the violin or the piano and when/why? The NOVA segment states that the violin helps to enhance and develop an area of the right brain and the piano does the same except it is on the left side. I plan on starting LMs soon but am not sure if I will start violin or piano, or eventually both (cost is a factor).

Thanks

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sonya_post
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2012, 06:29:13 PM »

We started violin lessons a month ago. We've been using Soft Mozart for about a year and about the last 4 months with relative consistency with him. With the daycare kids longer. I can see where Suzuki would be right brain and piano left brain as they are taught differently. We've been using Little Musician since it came out. I'm going to watch the Nova program this afternoon.

We started Soft Mozart for the daycare kids as they were older. My son just picked up stuff the kids were doing. His fixation on music started with an instrument Little Reader file. By 17 months he could name all the instruments of the orchestra by sight, word, and sound. Then my husband started showing him youtube videos of orchestras. We now spend about 3 hours a day on music between  lessons, watching videos of orchestras, and  practicing piano and violin. The only thing he balks at is piano. He will do it but he doesn't like it as much. Now that you mention the training of different sides of the brain, it might be that he is more right brained now. I may consider dropping piano for him until he is 3 or so. It has continually been a struggle. Not in a battle, but he would rather just bang on the keys. So to keep him focus is hard and he doesn't usually have a focus problem.
Tthank you for posting this, it has given me food for thought.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 06:30:49 PM by sonya_post » Logged
aangeles
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2012, 02:37:41 AM »

We are doing both!  smile  Ella started playing piano using Soft Mozart when she was 2.5, and Suzuki violin when she was 3.5. We are also doing LMs, and I think these 3 programs complement each other almost perfectly! She has developed perfect pitch, can play almost any tune she hears by ear, can read notes, AND, I just discovered this recently, can sight-sing!  big grin Interestingly, she can play by ear a bit better on violin than on piano, and can read notes faster on piano than on violin. I had always thought that this was due to the methods I used to teach each instrument, but, now that you mentioned the NOVA show, it might also very well be due to the left brain-right brain dichotomy.

As to why we are learning both piano and violin, it is because she loves music and LOVES practicing her instruments. She has great motivation and amazing (amazing to me, at least!) focus and attention span, practicing violin for 1 hour  in the morning and piano for 45 minutes in the evening. A lot of times, she gets carried away and plays longer, if I let her!  nowink

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Tamsyn
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 10:54:45 AM »

Well, like you said, money is a factor.  Do you already have a piano?  If so, that's a great place to start.  If you need to buy an instrument, the violin is a lot cheaper.  My children have a "toy" violin, but the piano has a prominent place in our home.  I play the piano much better than I do the violin, and consequently, I practice the piano more often.  My kids see that, and so piano is the natural focus in our home.  I want my kids to have violin instruction too, but ultimately I have to make priorities.  Piano lessons, LMS, and sight-singing are the big focus at our home.  Kodaly strongly believed that for a musically literate society, the first focus should be on the voice since every able-bodied person, whether rich or poor, has been given this instrument, and they carry it with them wherever they go.  I agree.  But since we DO have a piano, and I know how to teach, piano is the natural addition.  It's what is practical for our family.  Ultimately, my education decisions hinge on what we can afford, and what I can reasonable commit to, regardless of the advice from NOVA.  smile

Thank you for bringing this up, I appreciate everyone's comments.

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tlyoung
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2012, 10:41:15 PM »

Thanks for the replies. I am not sure what instrument we will start with. I think I might see which DS wants to learn first and add the other at a later date. I am not musically inclined but appreciate music (I sing horribly and have 2 left feet). I really found the entire NOVA program facinating and liked that Einstein would play the violin when he hit a difficult physics problem. I was surprised that his brain was taken without permission though.

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TeachingMyToddlers
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2012, 03:17:19 AM »

I really intended to start mine on violin, but time and money came into play. The Prezuki program we were attending was located in the next town over and was a pain to get to once a week. Lily was nearing the age when she was going to need private lessons which were much more expensive, plus the cost purchasing/renting an instrument that she would continually outgrow. So, I bought a keyboard around the time LMs beta came out and she was so engaged by it that we switched directions and sought out piano lessons at 3.5 after dabbling a little bit with SoftMozart. The classes are less than 10 minutes down the road and piano is cheaper in the sense that I only have to buy an instrument once and it will last years and years. I truly, truly thought we were going to go with violin, and I still would like to introduce it in the next year or two when we are in a position to do so.  I love that I can take everything we are learning in class and I can go home and teach Owen, which I don't think I would be able to do nearly as easily with a violin.  So, that's my 2 cents on what we chose and why.  smile

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SoftMozart
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 06:34:41 PM »

I don't know, where exactly NOVA got the information about violin developing Right hemisphLetere. I assume that they got the idea from the fact that fingers of left hand of any violin player is working harder then left hand  unsure ?
As far as we know, there were a lot of studies about piano lessons and brain development. For example, I would recommend you to read a book of Gorgon Shaw 'Keeping Mozart in mind'
The researchers divided second graders into 4 groups: 1st was taking piano, 2nd - choir, 3rd - computer, 4th was control group. Piano students were superior in tests.
Music is a language of multiple sounds. I think that 1 voice instrument is limiting a learner to... 1 voice! For beginners harmony, ability to play and melody and chords are essential for music education. In the world's best music schools piano is a must for all instrument players just because of this.
Sound production. It just seems like to play violin is easier then piano and it is cheaper then piano. Violin should cost tons of money - otherwise it is just a cheap wooden box. To create SOUND on violin is extremely hard. To spoil music ear is very easy, because a millimeter off is giving slightly different pitch. Some professionals can determine the difference sometimes!
Suzuki. This method is using Solfegio, which is good, because the speech memory and voice development are very important for ear development and music memory. However they teach kids to rely on memory (audio and muscle) way too much. After that some learners never learn how sight-read music.

'Piano is the universal, fundamental, and most accessible multi-octave instrument for learning the music language. The keys’ layout presents an obvious representation of the Grand Staff, making it much easier for a beginner to understand music grammar.
   Being a melodic and percussive instrument at the same time, the EK is the ideal training device for the development of hearing and rhythm. Playing doesn’t require any special physical exertion, like stringed and wind instruments do. While playing, a child can simultaneously sing, developing his voice and mastering proper intonation.   
   The EK can’t be played out of tune; when a key is pressed, a clean, even note is sounded, allowing the hearing to develop without obstacle. While playing, the student receives the melody, harmony, and rhythm all at once. Reproduction of both the melody and accompaniment develops the melodic and harmonious ear. When we teach our fingers to ‘walk’ smoothly (legato) or stomp (staccato), we are developing everything at once – the depth of hearing, control of the voice, and the subtle nuances of motor movement.
   Devotees of violins, accordions, flutes and harps, will of course object to this. They will say that other instruments are much more ‘articulate,’ better convey emotions and the subtle interrelations of tones, that furthermore diversity is important, and an instrument should be a matter of one’s taste. Undoubtedly, this is true. But we’re talking about the ability to teach at an elementary stage of music development. In this, the piano has no competitors. Moreover, the EK is even more effective than ordinary pianos!'
http://www.pianolearningsoftware.com/Book-You-CAN-be-a-Musician-by-Hellene-Hiner-downloadable_p_36.html



 

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Mandabplus3
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 09:49:07 PM »

You know it is pretty easy to learn an instrument by pitch and them never actually learn to sightread music.I know a few people who can copy a tune but can't read music to play one independently.
I think as parents teaching our children this is a good thing to be aware of. We need to ensure our children's music education includes both note reading and pitch/ ear training.
For the record I am swaying towards piano as the first instrument. It has more transferable skills. Skills that can be used in any other instrument. Plus it's easier on the motor skills of small children.

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Tamsyn
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 10:06:55 PM »

By "EK", do you mean "electric keyboard"?  I'm just guessing.

Yes, by playing the piano first, a young child cannot play out of tune.  However, they also don't have to develop that fine ear to do it.  Playing the violin is like a two-edged sword.  On the one hand, the child who has a good teacher, a fine instrument, precise recordings to listen to, and parents who will help them practice, will develop a better ear than their musical peers who didn't study violin.  One of my vocal-major friends in college had a scholarship as a violinist in the orchestra, but had to drop it because of the time commitment of being in the college's opera quartet.  She had a superior ear, and our teachers always attributed it to her early violin training.

However, if the instrument a young student has won't stay in tune, and more especially, if they don't practice with the expectation that they always play in tune, they won't develop that much-desired ear, and they would be better served on the piano, as SoftMozart suggests, because the mechanics are simpler, they learn to hear and create harmony, and basic piano skills are often required for professional musicians.  Every music major in most colleges has to pass "Keyboard Harmony".

I think that it is easier to learn to learn to play the piano vs the violin right, but if the parent is prepared to help the student practice and provide for the potential shortfalls of developing a fine ear on the violin, then the violin could be as beneficial as the piano.  For some families, there isn't space for a piano, and the portability of the violin makes it a better choice.

With my young children, I did buy them a small violin, but we have sunk into the routine of piano.  We also do a lot of ear-training and singing exercises (aka games) with hand chimes and our orchestra-quality glockenspiel.  This is helping them develop their ears like the violin would do, while also giving them the kinesthetic experience of playing an instrument.  These instruments are very portable, and we have had a lot of fun experiences with them.  We often do singing practice in the car.  We always have our voices with us!  If I had to drop piano or ear-training/singing, I would drop piano.  However, I have no intention of doing so.


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sonya_post
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 12:27:21 AM »

Hellene,

I do not disagree with you. And thank you Tamysn for chiming in also. If I had to pick just one instrument it would be piano.

The question of right brain/left brain and where Nova got the information is from brain scans. Violin players develop a particular brain structure on the left side of the brain, piano players develop the exact same structure on the right side and you guessed it - people who play both develop both. That does not mean that when playing piano you only develop the right side. That is not true as MRI's show differently. But for whatever reason, the violin actually changes the left side of the brain and piano the right side. People who just sing and listen to music - no such structural change. Children tend to be right brain dominant until age 3 or so. You want to develop both sides of the brain, and in truth the right brain/left brain thing isn't as clearly marked out as some think it is. But, I do know that Philip will practice violin, do the exercises and work very hard at his lessons. He can focus for 15-20 minutes straight. As far as piano - you know the trouble we've had. I think that may be because of the way he is wired and we should just not make a big deal of it but pick it up when he is closer to three. Right now I feel like we are banging our heads against the wall. But in violin, he is making tremendous progress. 

He has to take piano because I said, not only that, but for many of the reasons you stated as well. But clearly, the two instruments are doing different things in the brain.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 02:51:03 AM by sonya_post » Logged
SoftMozart
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 02:09:56 AM »

Sonya,
I would like to learn more!
Could you, please, refer me to some scientific  study about this?


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lois1
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2012, 02:16:30 AM »

Anybody considering another instrument as opposed to the violin or piano?  

My 2nd instrument is the cello... but my mother will testify that is not an easy choice to lug around. Plus I have no idea how I would get a tiny cello....

In the early days I want to concentrate on voice training too (as much as I can do with no formal training myself)... breathing exercises etc. It is definitely an overlooked instrument... lots of trendy a capella groups though nowadays so it's getting a good press...

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sonya_post
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2012, 02:41:01 AM »

Hellene,

Watch the Nova program. It doesn't go into great detail but it does show in the scans the exact structure that I am talking about. Plus it gives more information.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/how-smart-can-we-get.html

Sonya

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SoftMozart
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 03:32:02 AM »

Sonya,
I watched it. It is popular program with hypothetical ideas. Sounds fun and appealing, but not scientific to me.  smile 

 

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sonya_post
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 03:52:45 AM »

http://deanfalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/EinsteinPublishedArticle-2009.pdf

See page 5 for more information and citations of other studies. I am studying for an exam right now, I can pull more data that I looked up later if you need it. big grin



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