Suzuki Violin for a 2 year old?

[sonya_post]

Manda says :I have split this topic from a math thread, I believe others will be interested to read about the music aspect in this new thread as a seperate topic. L

aangles,

My son, who is 24 months old, wants to play the violin very badly. We've been using Soft Mozart with him for about 6 months off and on. And we've been using Little Musician since came out - but not the beta version. He is on lesson 59 I think. He can accurately read all notes middle c to high re. He has perfect pitch for all those notes and 5 cords. He can read music and translate it to playing notes on the keyboard, with his right hand only. His attention span is pretty good for a two year old.

The only Suzuki teacher that will take him at 2 doesn't want him doing ear training or formal keyboard instruction. 1. Do you think he is too young? 2. Do you think the suzuki teacher is right or should I just ignore her (which is my inclination)? Our problem is that we've already given him an old 1/32 violin (it's in sad shape) and he walks around saying, "I love you violin." and kissing it. I don't feel I can take it away but am concerned he will develop bad form from pretending to play.

[aangeles]

Wow, sonya, that's really impressive! 

The teachers on this forum would probably not be too happy with me about this, but I don't really follow ALL of their advice when it comes to Ella's education. Heheh    I mean, I listen to them and respect them for their experience and opinions, but at times, their goals for my daughter do not exactly coincide with mine. And, sometimes, teachers who are trained in a certain method get too entrenched in it and do not really have much experience or even awareness of the benefits of other techniques or combination of techniques. For example, Ella's soroban teachers do not really approve of me teaching her arithmetic using other methods, and they are worried it may mess up her anzan, so I just "conveniently" don't mention it to them. One of their main goals is to have Ella be able to do anzan as fast as possible , and thus perform well in international competitions; while, for me, I would gladly trade some speed for deeper understanding of numbers and creative problem solving. I don't really care if she wins competitions or not.

As for Suzuki violin, so far, Ella's two teachers have been VERY pleasantly astonished and amazed at her perfect pitch, playing-by-ear, and transposing abilities. One of them is actually strongly encouraging me to have Ella start formal piano/keyboard lessons. Interestingly, both of her teachers have perfect pitch themselves - one of them seemingly inborn, and the other having developed it through years of ear training.

So, to answer your questions (finally!), I don't think 2 years old is too young to start if there is a teacher who's willing to take him. I know there are a bunch of parents on this forum who started their kids at that age. And, in Japan, it is not unheard of to start at 2. As for the teacher, what she doesn't know won't hurt her, right? 

[aangeles]

Sonya,

I just re-read my reply to your questions, and I'm afraid I may have sounded too harsh on the violin teacher, I do not know her after all. Maybe you can start by asking her the reasons why she does not want your son to have ear training or keyboard instruction at this age. She may well have very valid reasons, and I will probably learn something I didn't know before! 

[nee1]

Hi Nee! Thanks Yes we started with 3a as it's the only copy I have (courtesy of a friend). It's actually our dilemma how to get the next levels :/

Thanks for your response, Nadia.

3rd grade math at 3 years of age - that's super impressive. It's amazing what dedicated parents can accomplish. Congratulations on your daughter's progress. Keep the good work going 

[Mandabplus3]

Sonya, when I read your post the first time, my immediate reaction was shock,  why wouldn't a music teacher want there students to do ear training? Especially a Suzuki teacher! Where by the lessons are run by ear! It just didn't make sence to me at all. Did she give you a reason? I didnt comment as it's beyond my expertise. I don't play any violin and unfortunately don't have a Suzuki option. But musically it just didn't sit right with me. Prsonally I would be asking ALOT of questions... Ad then deciding what is the best fit. Any kid that keen to learn isn't too young at all.
Aangeles, it wasnt too harsh at all I think it makes very wise parenting practice to adjust advice given to better match individual childrens personalities and your own goals.

[sonya_post]

I don't have an answer for you Manda and aangles. However, I just fired off an email and will post the response here when I get it.

[sonya_post]

This is a bit off topic other than the last few posts - but I thought I'd post it. This is Philip playing this morning with wild hair and all. For him, playing violin would be way more exciting than playing keyboard. The keyboard is pretty exciting. We are going to attempt the Soft Mozart Winter recital this December. He has a bit of work to do yet.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kca0exBStE0&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/kca0exBStE0&rel=1</a>

[Mandabplus3]

Oh wow! He is wonderful! You do realize that he knows it, he doesn't need the program and it is actually distracting him now.he is so busy congratulatinghimself he is forgetting to play!    I think he has the song memorized. And he certainly has perfect pitch for ME at least, you can see in his face that he hears it!
He will be ready for the next recital, no problem!
Try telling him the computer is broken and see if he can play it? I can easily picture him wondering all around the house with a violin tucked under his chin. 

[aangeles]

Oh yes, he is adorable! Good job, Philip! 

[sonya_post]

Why To Avoid Ear Training and Music Reading for Suzuki Violin

In the email she sent me previously she gave me the wrong impression.Evidently she meant that this is not how she would have started. What she meant is that she wouldn't start taking lessons in the beginning of Suzuki study. I asked if she thought we should quit using these programs and this was her reply:

No, I don't think it would be necessary or wise, for that matter, to stop using your existing programs if you started lessons, but we would want to be careful and creative as to how much we try to link them together. This is primarily because one of the core fundamentals of Suzuki-based learning is the creation of beautiful tone. Tone is the point from which all other aspects of excellent violin playing emerge. Necessarily, in the beginning we work a lot on focus and listening, which Philip probably already has a good start on.  Tone can't be learned from printed music -- it can only be learned from listening (to examples live and recorded) and doing and refining. Note reading comes later, after playing is well-established, confident and done with ease and mastery. The time at which that occurs is different for every student. The ear-training part is approached in a more violin-specific way. The keyboard lends itself really well to note-reading and chords/intervals in a way that the violin does not until much later in the course of study, and typically, keyboard students have a much better grasp of theory and harmony than string students do (because of the nature of the instruments.) The other consideration is that he likes it. That's a plus in my book!

My thought on this is why wait till 2 or 3 to develop attention. Why wait till 3 to start music training? And I'm not sure the programs need to be linked in any way other than the connections he makes on his own. For him, this is all just music and really really fun.

[cokers4life]

I just want to say that all of you parents are truly inspiring, and if my children can be just one tenth as smart as your kids through me learning from how you teach your children, I will be very pleased.  Thanks for sharing on this forum.

[Mandabplus3]

So Sonya, it appears the teacher wants to make sure Philip doesnt rely on the notes on the page rather than his ear to learn violin the suzuki way. Little Musician teaches pitch and note reading equally so I dont think it will be an issue. Soft mozart might be, depending on your focus. If you do a lot of sight reading it may be, but if you spend the time doing Guess Key and playing gentle piano then I think that can only help!

[sonya_post]

What she is after is for Philip to learn to hear a beautiful tone coming from the violin. aangeles can confirm this as Ella takes violin lessons. So, when starting Suzuki there should be additional stuff that will cause confusion. I think we can quite easily keep Soft Mozart/Little Musician separate from Suzuki. Whn it comes time to learn it will be a fairly easy transition for him. I am assuming he'll have at least a year or two of SM/LR under his belt before that happens.

Manda - just so you know - we were not playing this nicely on the keyboard until recently. He played better than this when he was 18 months old and then just quit. He is only playing nicely because I promised when he does and is potty trained we will get violin lessons. He's been obsessed with the violin and the double base for a long time - I think since we downloaded the instruments file for LR. 

cokers4life - I thought the same thing when I first joined the forums. I have always planned to home school and knew I wanted to do a better job than I did with 1st son who is 17 now and doing much better than his peers. He's tested post high school since 6th grade. I didn't find the Doman stuff till this one was 8 months. Figured it couldn't hurt and introduced Power Points and flashcards. We purchased LR last November. I would get on here and go "Jeeze, these women are crazy and must spend hours a day working with their kids." I thought, well, I'll be happy with 1/4 of that progress. I didn't realize how little time it actually takes to see real progress. And I didn't know how much fun this would be for both of us. Or how easy Little Reader, Little Musician, Soft Mozart and other programs make this. It wasn't until the last 4 months that I realized that we are going to be moving much faster than I ever thought possible. And all my little curriculum plans I made when he was little - yeah, well I have no idea what to expect now.

[aangeles]

I understand where the teacher is coming from. Suzuki violin places GREAT emphasis on the production of a beautiful tone, and even 2 and 3-year-old beginners are not exempt. That is why a lot of their students are not even taught to read notes until Book 2 or 3. However, if you are not going to make learning violin and note-reading part of the same lesson, I don't see how it can hurt. Even if he already knows how to read music, if you don't introduce it during violin practice and lessons, he will still need to rely on his ears to hear whether he is producing a good tone or not.

Just my (inexpert) 2 cents' worth...

[eschlem]

Sonya,

I trained in Suzuki violin in the early years, starting at 5 years old.  It gave me a jump start, and then continued in later years with a private teacher who used his own method.  When I went to conservatory, we were required to learn sight singing solfege and piano, which I hadn't done before.  When I decide to start teaching my kids, I'd definitely start sight singing and piano as soon as I thought they were capable of learning them.

Good luck to your son, he's doing great!!

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