Is there really such thing as "gifted"?

[Korrale4kq]

I found this article and I found if very interesting. I know we have covered the genius topic more than a few times. But I thought this article has a different take.

A basic summary for those that don't have the time to read it....
The author points out that pretty much every child can be considered gifted one way or other by meeting a criteria on a plethora of different tests. Being granted gifted status for school is no longer is reliant on high IQ above 130.
By the end of the article I was left wondering if there is any child that would not pass into the realm of gifted just by being a kid. Such criteria to be labelled gifted is creativity, sensitivity, hyper activity, fast recall..., and so much more. I felt that pretty every word to describe a typical child was bandied about.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/2013/06/20/is-your-child-ungifted/

[Korrale4kq]

I follow a few forums for gifted children. You know what I am talking about Tamsyn.

And I feel that anytime a child doesn't pass as gifted it is because there are excuses. They are not taking the right tests, they are having an off day, they were nervous, it was testin error. Or the child just doesn't like to test and is rebelling because they are so smart.

Something that I also find is that when one has a gifted child there is an elitist attitude. EL is strongly discouraged, and the number 1 piece of advice to a parent of a smart child under the age of 5 is to just let the kids be kids and play. But many of the children who are later diagnosed as gifted were precocious readers (apparently always learning on their own) and they now have accelerated education.

By following these forums for months there appear to be hundreds, if not thousands of children, mostly  across the US, that are accelerated and doing work well above their grade level. And it has me wondering if all these children are gifted or just accelerated. And how would an average child fare with acceleration.

Yes, I am mostly musing....
Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Mandabplus3]

Well I can clearly see from my job/contacts/ life experience/own children that accelerated education makes for gifted children. I don't think it's as simple as accelerating an entire class though. Children who are accelerated usually are left to their own devises some what. They are expected to think and solve some problems they come across independantly. In school a teacher has not got the time to help their gifted students with every problem. At home mum doesn't either. So the normal but accelerated child has more opportunity to use their brain and think for themselves. Even if this only occurs for some of their work that are developing a gifted brain that can assimilate and creatively li different knowledge to arrive at an answer. That's what "real" gifted kids all seem to be able to do.
I think to create a gifted child they need opportunities to think deeply. Solve puzzles. Work out things for themselves AND get an accelerated education. Still looking for all the evidence to prove it though
Those gifted forums are a joke. If your child was truly gifted then I doubt that's the place ou would spend you time. I cannot believe the amount of excuses! "My son reads at 8th grade level but is struggling in math." Well that means he is good at English NOT that he is gifted  oh and don't get me started on the twice exceptional excuses! 

[Tamsyn]

I follow a few forums for gifted children. You know what I am talking about Tamsyn.

    Yes, I do!

I still go back and forth on this one, overall.  Genetically, some people are simply more capable of some things than others.  Any child can learn to play most instruments, but some people are simply gifted singers, and others are, well, not.  Anybody can train to be an awesome choir voice, but not everybody can get a job with the metropolitan opera, no matter how accelerated their early childhood was.  Many sports favor certain body types.  These things keep me connected to the "gifted" philosophy enough to admit it can happen, but in my experience, usually "gifted" kids have had special opportunities.
I certainly don't think my own children are "gifted".

[teachingmykids]

That was an interesting article. To me gifted is the ability to make connections fast and learn fast and it generally correlates to IQ scores. I believe I am but my kids are most likely not. Even when I went to school the kids that got labeled as gifted were bright social kids that did really well in school and were accelerated. I was a quiet kid who was bored by work at my level and very very lazy about homework. I never got recognized. A lot of the kids that did were probably not gifted.

I have read the gifted sections on other forums out of curiosity even though my kids don't seem to be. I haven't been on strictly gifted forums but I have board hopped through the years and all of them have the same view on it. I definitely see that attitude there and it bums me out a little especially since I used to fall prey to it. I now know that intelligence is a combo of both nature and nurture like most other things. I dislike the term hothousing and how they use the term pushing. Precocious kids could just be maturing early and kids that were not precocious could be late bloomers anyway. Nothing is set in stone. All kids do well when exposed to a good language rich and educationally rich environment whether they are naturally gifted, bright, average intelligence, below average or they have cognitive delays. It isn't pushing or hothousing to expose your kids to learning or early learning. I sure there are parents out there that are pushy but you can teach kids even regular ones stuff without being pushy. I really wish I could go back in time with my kids because unlike most here I discovered early learning too late.

What I really wonder about is how it seems like half a forum will post in a gifted section and there are hundreds of people mostly from the US with highly or profoundly gifted kids. Only 2-3% of people just fall into the gifted category so that means if a teacher has about 20 kids in her class they will get a kid in their class that is gifted every 2-3 years. They may never or once in a lifetime see kids at higher levels of highly, exceptionally or profoundly gifted yet there are tons of them out there on forums.  A lot of shows have words shown on it and I'm guessing the parents do spend time teaching their kids but because they do it in the correct playful way then there kids are special and other kids are just the poor normals. Teaching a young kid, toddler or baby to read is not okay at all but following your finger under words and teaching them letters and sounds is fine. They also believe giftedness is only from nature and nurture has nothing to do with it at all.

I believe all kids deserve to be given an accelerated educated and to be given lots of opportunity to learn. Yes some kids pick up things a lot faster and have natural talents and great natural aptitude in certain areas. Some kids are naturally gifted but ALL kids benefit from being in a educationally rich environment and statistics even show that too. Rich kids are starting to advance when compared to middle class kids and it isn't because they are smarter it is because their parents have more money to spend on tutors and educational experiences to insure their children do well.

[cokers4life]

Well, I am surprised this article didn't get more reaction from the gifted community.  Bahahahaha.   I think there are genius type children out there, but I think they are mostly rare.  This article is spot on on how the system is manipulated to get select students special attention leaving the rest of the class dinking around with less then desirable standards. 

One parent made a comment on the article that I thought was spot on for what the gifted program has turned into. 

"The only reason I want my child to be labeled as gifted is because of the emphasis schools place on gifted students. Students in GT (gifted and talented) courses (at least in Texas).

At the school I taught at, the GT class was doing DNA labs, going to Houston Science Museum, etc. The regular classes were in a portable building with no lab equipment and not even enough textbooks for each student to have one.

GT Teachers are generally better trained (i.e. the school pays for summer courses in GT education) and paid (my school gave a small stipend to GT teachers).

A lot of parents who are familiar with public education really push for their kid to be GT solely to get a decent education."

Well, at least she was honest.   Some parents have bought their own lie.   

One issue I have with the "gifted mentality" is that it allows parents of "average" children to accept low expectations for their children guilt free.   

Remember back in the day when it was generally thought acceptable to spank a child and now, its generally looked down upon by most communities and social groups.   How did this happen?   I will tell you....gentle shame and guilt from leaders in social groups and communities.    Gentle shame and guilt have a unique way of forcing a person to have a revelation of a better way.   

When I found Brillkids, I found that gentle shame and guilt, and it was the first step towards me truly changing as a parent.  I had some real issues with it, but this community is so supportive and encouraging that it didn't last long.   With the support and encouragement of Brillkids members, I moved past the shame and guilt and became empowered.   So much amazing progress has happened in the last year and its all because of you guys.   

I strongly believe that the "gifted" mentality does a great disservice to all children.   First, the "gifted" children are patted on the back for doing something they consider is easy.   Second, the "average" child is forced to adopt a belief in themselves that they aren't amazing because well they aren't in the "gifted" class.  The "average" kid accepts that all they will be is "average" and that no amount of hard work will change that.   

The second thing that annoys me is parents do not take any credit for developing their child's unique ability to learn and adapt quickly.   I have a unique perspective.   I didn't really start early learning with my 3 (almost 4) and 5 year old until they were 2ish  and 3ish.  However, I have been using early learning techniques with my 21 month old from 3 months.   There is an amazing difference.  I am taken back by all that my youngest can do in comparison to what my older children were doing at that same age.   He isn't the most amazing kid in this forum, but coming from a low income (10,000 below poverty threshold), I am pretty satisfied.  I know he would be counted as "gifted" in a heart beat in a public school. 

However, I take credit for it (well, there were lots of wonderful people that helped me get access to materials I couldn't afford like my Dad and new friends).  But by taking credit, I take responsibility too.  By continuing to be a community where parents do not take responsibility we are holding our children back.   Of course, I do not want to be the preachy type so I am generally just letting society to continue on with its belief system and not challenging it.   

But should we really do this?  I ask myself this often.   I think you are going to have individuals who are not going to be accepting of early learning due to the fact that it would mean accepting that they didn't do a good enough job.  I was once there with that feeling of guilt and shame, but I accepted the responsibility to do better because I didn't adopt a belief that it was too late to change.  I think that as early learning community this is our greatest motivating power to others..."ITS NOT TOO LATE TO CHANGE."

Not only has my youngest benefited, but all my children have.  In over a year, my recently turned 5 year old has tested out of 1st grade math (completing every single problem in the Mammoth Math books...boy that's a long book).   My almost 4 year old is in first grade math with 65 lessons to go out of 100 using the Funnix math program.)   They are reading phonetically and growing everyday in their reading skills.   My quote these days is "knowledge makes play time better."  In over a years time, all my children would now be considered gifted in many areas, but they aren't.  They were average kids when we began.   They still are, but I have opened the world of knowledge to them early giving them a great boost to conquer their dreams.

There is a lot wrong with the education system, but the real issue is that we aren't starting young enough.  We don't start young enough because we have this antiquated belief system about babies lacking the intelligence to decipher and absorb knowledge to read, count and understand.   Mothers have adopted this mediocre attitude because well motherhood is tough enough.   What I have learned is that early learn actually makes motherhood easier!   My 21 month can communicate with me what he wants and I can reason with him most days just by using my words.  I credit this to early learning.   With my first two. there was a lot of frustration due to communication issues. 

Generally I tell people, "All I do is press play."  But that isn't accurate.  I work hard researching and preparing lessons, but there is so much joy in watching a toddler count to ten forward and backwards in Spanish and English or reading a whole sentence for the first time.

The greatest issue I have with the "gifted" mentality is it dis-empowers children.  They are the victims in this perpetual circle of emotional and financial poverty.  It tells children you are either born gifted or not, and if you aren't, you just need to accept your life as mediocre.  These children are force-fed this awful mentality that working hard doesn't get you anywhere amazing.   That you have to be talented and gifted to do those things.  They have to accept that someone has to work at McDonalds.   Well, I will tell you that if we all were educated enough, McDonalds wouldn't even be in business.  Well that's my take.   I think we should challenge the community but believe me I understand everyone's reservations.   But just like everyone put the kids first in getting people to implement positive discipline, I think the same can be done with pushing early learning into every home.   (jumps of soapbox)  alright, got it off my chest.  You guys are all awesome.  You are changing the world one baby and/or child at a time.

[Korrale4kq]

It makes me feel better to know that I was not the only one having some strong but mixed feelings about the whole gifted child thing. I have loved reading the responses and I agree with so much.

Somethings Cockers said stands out for me.

Generally I tell people, "All I do is press play."  But that isn't accurate.  I work hard researching and preparing lessons, but there is so much joy in watching a toddler count to ten forward and backwards in Spanish and English or reading a whole sentence for the first time.
 

Haha! Ain't that the truth. I spend my evening planning lessons, researching new books to read, new method, programs and making stuff. All just so my son can fly through his "hard work" as he calls it.

I also think that the gifted label is doing a child an injustice too. Kids start to think that because they are gifted they don't need to work hard. Then with kids that are asynchronous or 2E they can use any adversity as an excuse not to do well. Ad parents seem to be perpetuating these excuses.
And the average kids starts to feel that the are not smart enough, and never will be. Frankly there is nothing wrong with average! I am sure many of the most successful and happy  people in life are average. Average IQ. Maybe even were average in school. Better at some subjects, a little worse at others. But just an all around A, B or C average. What made them excel careerwise, and what makes them happy, all comes down to mindset.

Part of me never wants my son to have a gifted or talented label because I don't want him to take his smarts for granted and to breeze through lower level grade work only to get stuck and discouraged in middle school. But another part wants him to qualify for girfted because if he does go to public school I want him to get the better resources.

At the end of the day. The best thing I  can do for my son is to try and instill that growth mindset. And make him realize that labels dog matter.  I mention above that he calls academics "hard work". He coined that term himself when he was younger. When he was struggling with a math concept, or reading something I would urge him on by saying "nothing in life is easy. But hard work and tenacity will get your big rewards." He started saying that he wanted to do his "hard work" from those days on.
I still reiterate that concept to him but I also expanded it by saying "the biggest reward of all is the satisfaction of a job well done." He started to become a bit of a perfectionist, and hated being wrong. So I now tell him. "Hard work gets big rewards, the best reward is a job well done by giving your best effort."

[cokers4life]

My issue with the term "average" is its limiting.  It places limits on a child.  It says that some people will live outstanding, amazing dream lives and the rest of the "average" people will get their bills paid.   I am just saying that we should give children the mental attitude that no one has to be "average" if they don't want to.   Most kids don't want to be average, and we shouldn't limit them with the "average" mentality.  Kids are dreamers, and as we know, with the right resources, mentality and encouragement, these kids can achieve great dreams.  They want too.  They want to contribute and be awesome.  No one really wants to be average.   I could have been something great if I had been properly equipped.  I think everyone believes this about themselves except those who are already doing something great.   Of course, thanks to Brillkids, I am doing something great, and there is nothing average about what we are doing on this forum. 

[Korrale4kq]

Hmmm....

To be honest. I am actually happy to be average now. I was a great student, never had to try hard, learnt fast and easily, had an excellent memory. I just never aspired for or yearned to be anything other than a mum. So I became a nanny.  I just want a simple life. now i stay home and raise my son to be the best he wants  to be. My husband works a simple factory job to provide for us. He loves that he does his job and walks out the door and leaves is behind each day.  We are low income,  but very happy and content.  We don't want for much.
And all our friends are the same. They have pretty basic lives, simple jobs or stay home with the kids. And they are happy. My parents are te same.... And pretty much all my extended family. I don't think anyone in my family has ever gone forth and excelled at anything.
I do have a very few friends who are highly successful in their chosen fields. But they work ridiculously long hours, and they are extremely stressed, and not happy.

Something else I tell me son. "I don't care what you do in life, I just want you to work hard and be a kind and happy man." If he finds peace by working at McDonald's. So be it. I will be happy for him.


That is another thing I haven't gotten a handle on.... What defines success? Happiness? Fame? Wealthy? Prestige? Contributing to society?

[BTBVEN]

There are those that simply have better aptitude towards certain subjects/interests e.g. some are simply more interested in music than others, so much so that they actually learn the subject in depth and hence do well in it. I do believe there is such a thing as 'natural' flair which may or may not be giftedness per say but for some people it's just simply easier to grasp certain subjects whilst for others it takes dedication/hardwork to get the same level of result.

If I do a comparison just between my husband & I, we were both brought-up in middle-class families, hard-working parents (in my case single parent) then I see that my husband has a natural flair for languages (something I simply do not have in the same way)...he picked up fluent reading/writing in /speaking in Russian within 3 months of living there...similarly, he's picked up German having worked in Germany for a very brief period. I used to learn German through classes and I'd say that I just wasn't as inclined and am still a basic level German speaker.

What do we jointly aspire for our 12 month old daughter - to be the best she can be, be happy, content and have a fulfilling life. That fulfillment may come from career aspirations, family aspirations, combination of different things etc.

[cokers4life]

Korrale4kq, well, you are not average in my book.   Look at the amazing accomplishments you have made in raising a wonderful, delightful child excited about learning and life.  All you moms are in my amazing book.

I think success is defined by achieving one's personal dreams.  Sometimes its being the best, innovative mom you can be (because the best moms equip the amazing future to conquer the next set of human problems).  I don't think we should judge anyone's dream especially our children's, but we should be doing all we can to assist them and that includes implanting a philosophy of a "I can do anything I put my mind to."   

What their dreams are as children that is most important.  Its during this amazing stage at life where they dream big.   Are their dreams consistent?  ehh, no...one minute a firefighter, the next an archeologist, but we should be assisting them to dream as big as they desire.   

How does knowledge play a role?  Knowledge gives them confidence and exposes them to great dreams.  If we begin early in equipping them with knowledge, the result is powerful dreams and powerful imaginations.  There is excitement and confidence that lets them know that excitement and joy is worth all the challenge.   Mostly in the early stage its lots of excitement and really not challenging, but its that drive for more excitement that is going to push them past the challenges as long as we as parents don't stand in the way.

We can stand in the way in two ways.  One way is not equipping the child with necessary knowledge and skills in a progressive format, and the other way is not assisting the child in dreaming big.   When I watch the amazing children doing amazing things like creating a solar panel system following the Fibonacci sequence or finding new ways to test for cancer, I find these children are incredibly excited about what they are doing.    These children were entrusted to solve problems because they were equipped and the parent had confidence that they could find a way to figure out a solution.   Were their doubts in the back of these parents minds?  Maybe, but I don't think they let the kids know about these thoughts.   Because really, what is the worst that could happen?  They didn't figure out a solution?   Oh well, think about what they did learn in the amazing process.   Think about what they are going to do better.   Kids want to be amazing.   They want to be super heroes.   They want to save animals.   They are just big human beings inside a small body. 

Anyway, as we know there is a lot more to being an amazing mom and if that is all the child wants to be, they still need all the knowledge, techniques and a good philosophy to do the job in a way that continues to raise the standard.  We can always be more amazing!

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