what is the best method to teach decipiline

[trinity papa]

yup joanna that would be a appropriate response .... but like i said useless father ..... and testy children .... sure they paid money for the play group and they think they have the right to be there regardless ..... about US$40 per hr ..... so ... they didn't stop ... also neither did the parents bother to apologise to other kids or their parents ..... and the teachers try to ignore it as ... well children being children ....... oh did i mention the child then went on to throw toys ... wooden blocks mainly at other kids .......

such parents are self centred .... all they have is themselves and their children ... and their children is just being children ... even if they are a devil, and other child who is a victim of their spoilt child ... well the parents attitude is ...its just too bad they were stupid enough to be bullied by them .... dah .....

i mean well behave kids .... its easy to treat, reason with etc ..... but there is also a saying .... obedient kids are stupid adults ..... , on the other hand there are also manipulative kids .... they behave like angels in front of their parents but ...... are bullies in school .... or in cyberspace ..... heard about how they call their schoolmates ugly etc ganging up on them and causing them to commit suicide ?? well ....... plenty ...... and all this info impacting them from internet to cable to what have you .......

i think regardless of the methods use its best to have a balanced aproach ...... undiscipline ones ..... unable to control themselves ..... full of anger or simply too much addictives in their food ..... a stricter approach is required ..... a reasonable one, one who is willing to listen or obey .... treat them with respect and teach them well ...... there is no one method to work for all types of children as there are also all type of people in the world .... if counselling works .... there won't be any murderous, killers, drunk drivers, drug addicts, conman, embezzlers ....... and what have you ........

i mean what is a good kid?? what kind of a human being you want them to be ....... 

hmmm as for quiet corners ..... it may or may not work ..... or taking the toy away from them to cool down etc ...... forgive me for saying ...... smart kids wouldn't go to the quiet corner when you ask them to, if you take away one toy they can still play with other toys .... if you take away all the toys they still can entertain themselves ...... i would say they are creative, bored, but creative,  such punishment won't work on them .... in fact should find the cause of their argument or not sharing or destructive behaviour ...... or find a shrink ..... sometimes they just need to have an outlet of their pent up energy ..... this means taking time out to bring them to the park or playground  or swimming etc ....... on the other hand if i tell my children to sit quietly at the corner because i say so because she has been naughty ... and she does so everytime ...... i would be worried ...... its shows that they maybe gullible ..... easily trusting, easily misled .....

(of course we haven't tried it yet ...haven't reach that stage but am doing lots of research on it and finding the pros and cons ...... people like to paint good stories and its success but its only one side of the story ..... we can lie to ourselves that .. that is all to it ..... and totally miss the mark altogether ... i am not saying all kids are born little devils .... or are brought up that way .... some are really good others need a little nudging .... talking of which my little girl is too kind and warm hearted ..... she often has toys snatched from her by other babies her age or younger and she would just let it be ..... or sometimes she gets pushed by such borish brutes ..... and she would just stand one side and look ..... she is happy to share and give her own toys .... but she gets pushed when even sharing her own toys ..... now that's bad ...... and the borish child's parents couldn't be bothered, ..... like i said you can bring up a good kid .... but there are plenty of ill-disciplined kids out there who will do harm to your child ..... if your child is a victim of such an attack .... beatings, knifing, slanders etc ..... as a parent what would you do?)

Mandi offers great idea ... that's what i often do ..... whenever its meal time or fruits time ..... she will sign please help up up ... to get on the high chair .... and then she will sign eat eat ..... after feeding we teach her to sign thank you .... now she doesn't need to sign she can say it ..... every night before she goes to bed she winks to say good night to everybody .... going to them one by one to wink good night....... discipline and good habits starts from young ...... ..... must be constant, fair, and appropriate ..... and its best to let them think its their idea ... its them wanting to do it ... rather than you asking or forcing them to do it ........

[Joha]

I just wanted to through this out there...One of my friends told me that when her kids do not behave she tells them "I love you, but I didn't love what you did". I thought it was kind of clever. Of course this goes along with the full lesson, but that way they know that even though you are escolting them you love them and the fact you may not be the niecest at that moment it doesn't mean you don't love them anymore.

[Joha]

This is a link for "Discipline and Reward Techniques". I think all of them are for toddlers, not with babies.

http://www.supernanny.com/Advice/-/Supernanny-techniques/-/Discipline-and-reward.aspx?_pbg=plContent_ctl00_rpArticles&_pbg_size=8&_pbg_page=1&_pbg_mode=search&_pbg_sortd=created_date&_pbgauthor_type=&_pbgCategoryID=295

This one gives some inside about discipline techniques for both, babies and toddlers:

http://www.parents.com/toddlers/development/behavioral/gentle-discipline-for-babies-and-toddlers/?page=1

This was a little extract regarding time outs:

Most of us think of a time-out as a discipline strategy for older kids, but some experts say that you can use a version of it from about 9 months on, especially for more serious offenses. Let's say your child bites you on the shoulder when you're hugging her -- something that many older babies, unaware of the pain that can be inflicted with their new teeth, do at least once. Say, 'No biting!' and sit her on your lap facing away from you for one minute. "Losing your attention is a severe penalty for a baby or toddler," says Dr. Brown. "When a minute is over, repeat the phrase 'No biting,' and then give her a hug and move on. A young child might not connect the consequence with the behavior at first, but if you respond that way every time she bites, she'll catch on fairly quickly." By the time toddlers are 18 months or so, you can put them in a time-out in their bedroom for two minutes if you have a gate you can put up to block the doorway. "You don't want to close the door, because it can be frightening to young children to be left alone," says Dr. Rimm.

[Autumn]

Mandy,
Karma to you!
It's good to respect our kids and teach them how and what to say....because they aren't mind readers. But it sure would be a lot easier it they were! 

Autumn

[Autumn]

And Karma to everyone else       just because it's a touchy topic and I really appreciate everybody's contribution!   

[Joanna07]

My thoughts on spanking
When children are small just a little smack on the bottom is enough, when they get older parents have to start using a little more force to get the same effect. Kids grow bigger, than we have to spank at full force otherwise they are not going to be afraid. At some point hand will be not enough, the time will come to use belts or some other device. Not a nice picture in my head... Isn't it better to use a different discipline technique that will work well with small and bigger kids? Talking, explaining, natural consequence, this is the way to go in my opinion.

[trinity papa]

either the child is dumb and needs constant spanking and getting bigger and painer ... or the parents are dumb ... and beatings is the only way the parents know how to teach a child ......

disciplining a child needs a little more brain and guts ......  talk too much and too little action and the child knows the parents are push over sissies ..... and sounds like a naggy old hag ...... and the parent end up turning to emotional black mail telling the child how  much hardship and how much the parents are giving up to care for the child ...... this results in emotional scars that will last far longer than any physical ones .....

care and balance ....... study your child and decide what is the best method to use to teach and discipline your own child ...... be it military style or hippy style its your choice .... as long as at the end of the day they cause no harm to themselves and others ...... this include those money grabbing bankers selling worthless papers to unsuspecting retirees .... paying themselves exhorbitant bonuses ..... while clamining ignorance ....

[Joanna07]

either the child is dumb and needs constant spanking and getting bigger and painer ... or the parents are dumb ... and beatings is the only way the parents know how to teach a child ......

Unfortunately, many parents still believe that' the best way to discipline their kids. Are they dumb? Maybe some of them... many just don't know there are other ways to discipline or even if they now they don't know how to do it effectively...

I have a problem that I'm not sure how to solve. Kaietan is a great, well behaved child most of the time, it's easy to distract him when he gets upset. Sometimes though when he starts crying he cannot stop, if I take him to the other room and tell him to come back when he calms down he comes to me and keeps crying, I take him back telling him again that I love him and want him to come back when he stops crying. But this is not working well,after few times he's crying really hard and is so miserable.If I try to ignore him he'll stay be me and cry,it can go on for a long long time. This technique is not working well for us. How can I resolve this situation? Any advice?

[Twinergy]

Joanna,
I found this http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=1106215&highlight=validate+feelings thread in the Mothering forum that I think might address your issue.  I have found the Mothering forum a great place to find resources and advice on gentle discipline.  I wish I had more time to give you a more detailed reply, but things are crazy here right now with twins, teething, and everybody having a summer cold.  (I just realized that our kids are almost the same age.)

[Twinergy]

I am reading some great discipline books right now and am including some links to excerpts from the books so you can preview them for yourself before buying.  (books.google.com is a great place to get book previews and reviews.)
Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn
http://books.google.com/books?id=PAuOqjD6BE4C&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s

Playful Parenting by Lawrence J. Cohen
http://books.google.com/books?id=45EdmajNtzIC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s


Joanna07,
Here http://www.mothering.com/cry-connection-fresh-approach-tantrums is a great article about tantrums.   A tantrum is an age appropriate way for young children to express difficult emotions, not misbehavior.   If possible I try to stay close by during a tantrum and let them know that I am listening and let them have their feelings.  Active listening and validating the feeling are very good tools to use in this situation: “You look very sad that Daddy left, I feel sad when Daddy leaves too.  It’s ok to feel sad. You are working very hard at letting me know how you feel.  “   This gives them vocabulary for their feelings and lets them know that these feelings are normal and allowed.  It also lets them know that I am there for them and am willing to listen when they have difficult feelings.  I use a calm voice when talking to them so they learn these feelings aren’t so scary.  I also offer hugs and affection but don’t force it if they don’t want it.                   

[Joanna07]

Twinergy thank you for your advice, I will look for these books at the library

My son is not having tantrums yet, he's is mainly whining and crying when I don't do something he wants or if I don't do it the way he wants. For example:he wants me to play with him but I have to wash dishes, he starts crying and keeps asking me to play with him. I did try to tell him I know he's sad and disappointed and I would love to play  but I can't at the moment, we will play soon. He gets even more upset and keeps whining. I'm doing something wrong, not sure how to handle this kind of situation that are happening more often lately. The advice sounds so great in books not so easy in real life though.

[Krista G]

Joanna,

Have you thought of asking him to help you with your chores?  Little children LOVE to help.  It makes them feel like they are useful and grownup.  We all like to feel useful.  I pull a stool or the highchair to the sink and let the baby help by playing with the bubbles and cleaning the spoons.  If you have to sweep you can get a small broom and let them help you.  This may avoid the tantrums and also allow you to teach your child responsibility at a young age.  Little guys can help empty the small trash cans too.  You might want to look for small tasks that he can help you with and praise him all the while for being a little man who is so helpful. Tell him you don't know what you would do without his help.  There are so many things parents can have their young ones do to start contributing to the running of the household and they enjoy it if we involve them at a young age.  If we wait too long they have learned to be treated as a master and no longer want to help but would rather be served.  As with anything, the younger you start, the better.

My daughter at 2 years old could wash the dishes perfectly.  She would stand on the highchair and wash a sink load and think it was the best fun ever.  I never taught her, she just observed everyone else washing and then copied our behavior.

View my blog at www.teachingbabytoread.com

[Joanna07]

Krista, I do try to include my son in cooking and cleaning, maybe he's ready to do more though, I will try to get him more involved
thanks

[Isabeau]

Hello all,
It's my first post on this site, but thought that I'd affirm one of the suggestions that someone made earlier -- anything by Barbara Coloroso is fantastic -- the book "Kids are Worth It!" is a really great book to bring perspective to the whole punishment/discipline question.  She espouses natural consequence as a teaching method, which a few people have talked about. She teaches a very gentle but really effective approach to parenting.  I got it when my first son was newborn and I was like "what?  are you kidding me?" and put it aside.  Someone brought it up again to me recently, and I read it again now that my first son is three, and I was like "YES!  This is exactly what i've been looking for!"  The most important element of her approach is finding a method of dealing with situations that keeps both your dignity and your child's dignity intact.  Noone is left feeling guilty (after spanking, for example), noone is left feeling hurt, embarrassed, abused or that their feelings were ignored or worse invalid but the message still gets across.  It's about raising kids to be independent, compassionate, and ethical adults.  I guess it's a long term, whole life approach rather than a quick fix (though in my experience the approach works wonders on a day to day basis as well).

I guess it's a good fit for me because I was looking for something that worked with my feeling that it is difficult to teach my boys not to hit if I hit them to try to get them to listen to me, and that it's difficult to teach them that might does not equal right if that's what I demonstrate.  I guess it could be easier or maybe even faster to spank to get the message across, but I also feel like I'd be creating a situation where my children respond or do not respond out of fear rather than out of understanding or empathy...and that's not an approach that i'm comfortable with. 

I have a three year old boy and a seven month old boy.  I'm REALLY finding her techniques useful with my generally well behaved (but still three years old!) oldest son. 

And now off to feed my youngest who just woke up desperate to eat!
Interested in your thoughts, or any other ideas on the book!

[Skylark]

This book has some good advice on discipline, DISCIPLINE WHILE YOU CAN!--By James Dobson
http://www.twenga.co.uk/book/discipline-while-you-can_4355131.html

Here is a little summary of a couple of points for babies:

Birth to 7 months: When a child reaches about 6 months he should be able to profit from an occasional swat (usually on the hand), for doing something you've told him not to do. By this age they can almost always understand the meaning of "No," even if they don't understand the reasons behind it. For example, if he pulls your glasses off, although he may not understand why he shouldn't—that they can break etc.—he can understand "no" and realize he is disobedient if he defies you. But swatting a child of 6 months for wriggling while having a nappy changed or for crying in the midnight hours is a serious mistake. Most of all, at this early age, he needs to be held, loved, and most important, to hear a soothing human voice. He should be fed when hungry and kept clean and dry and warm.

On the other hand, it is possible to create a fussy, demanding baby by rushing to pick him up every time he utters a whimper or sigh. Infants are fully capable of learning to manipulate their parents through a process called reinforcement, whereby any behavior that produces a pleasant result will tend to recur. Thus, a healthy baby can keep his mother hopping around his nursery 12 hours a day (or night) by simply forcing air past his sandpaper larynx. To avoid this consequence, it is important to strike a balance between giving your baby the attention he needs and establishing him as a tiny dictator.


Eight to Fourteen Months: Many children will begin to test the authority of their parents during the second 7-month period. The confrontations will be minor and infrequent for the first birthday, yet the beginnings of future struggles can be seen.

Be sure the rules and the punishment or sentence you lay down are Spirit-led and not too hard to keep or too hard, and not done in anger or without prayer.

How does a parent discipline a one-year-old? Very carefully and gently! A child at this age is extremely easy to distract and divert. Rather than jerking a china cup from his hands, show him a brightly colored alternative—and then be prepared to catch the cup when it falls. When unavoidable confrontations do occur, win them by firm persistence and as a last resort, a swat on the hand. Again, don't be afraid of the child's tears, which can become a potent weapon to avoid naptime or bedtime or bath time. Have the courage to lead the child without being harsh or mean or gruff.

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