Teaching a language you don't know

[waterdreamer]

Hi Guys!
I was hoping for guidance in teaching my son another language. I have helped teach him Sign language, his old daycare played a bit part in this as part of the staff were deaf. And were currently working on French. This is not that far fitched as I told French Immersion up to grade five and a lot of my family speaks french. For this we are using Little Pim DVDs, Little Pim iPhone App and kids music CDs. I just ordered Hooked On French, the new LP French, LP French Flashcards and LP French Music CD.
But I'd also like to teach him Spanish, as it seems to be the next language that would be of use to him. A lot of people from Canada visit Mexico on vacation. But I'm total lost when it comes to this language.
So how do you guys teach a language you don't understand?
Thanks so much in advance
Monique

[ShenLi]

This is a tough one...  I'm monolingual but I'd love for my kids to learn another language.  My husband and his family speak "Hokkien" - a Chinese dialect - but up until now my older son has failed to pick it up.  He tends to follow me and since I can't speak it, he doesn't either despite the fact that the family speak it regularly.

I've tried to correct this by teaching my son Sign Language.  They say that if you keep the language center of the brain active, your child will find it easier to learn another language later in life.  Sign language apparently counts.  The other thing I've been trying to do is to learn a language myself using "EuroTalk" CD ROMs.  I keep my younger boy on my lap when I listen to the CD and play the quiz to see how much I've remembered.

I've also tried playing stuff like Wink to Learn Chinese for them but have yet to observe any results (I didn't play it consistently with my older boy and it's too soon to tell with my younger son).  I read in "Nurture Shock" by Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman that children need to see a real live person in order to learn language.  They need to see the movement of lips as well as hear the words.  Showing flashcards on DVD with just a voice over doesn't offer the live person therefore DVD programs like these have no benefit.  Has anyone found contrary to this?  That playing foreign language flashcards on DVDs does help their child pick up another language?

[Anastasiya]

In my opinion it's totally impossible to teach the language you don't know.
Think: you MUST have good vocabulary,
you MUST be able to speak this language naturally or at least, with good grasp of its structure
you can be able to keep up the conversation
and so on...
So I think the person should teach him/herself at first:) and then, having even little knowledge of a language, teach a kid.

[NewWorld2011]

I totally agree with you Anastasiya. If we don´t speak a language is impossible teaching it to a baby / toddler by ourselves, in the same way they learn our mother tongue.

However, I think that we cannot underestimate the right brain importance. Reading Makoto Shichida's theories, when a little baby has been previously exposed to images (words) and sounds (perfect pitch) of a foreign language, his ability to learn it will be extraordinarily boosted. So when children grow up, they will be helped a lot if it they finally follow studying that language at school (or with a personal teacher)

[hypatia]

I read in "Nurture Shock" by Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman that children need to see a real live person in order to learn language.  They need to see the movement of lips as well as hear the words.  Showing flashcards on DVD with just a voice over doesn't offer the live person therefore DVD programs like these have no benefit.  Has anyone found contrary to this?  That playing foreign language flashcards on DVDs does help their child pick up another language?

I disagree with this. In Northern Europe, children from Denmark, Belgian, and Holland watch tv in neighbourhood languages. So the Dutch kids will watch shows in German for example. They DO pick up the language. In western europe, many children will get Russian tv and learn that way. I taught myself american pronounciation by watching many video clips as a teen. :-)
Every little bit counts and I don't believe in 'experts' who say: Do do it because it won't work.
Listening to languages is crucial. Don't beat yourself up if you can't hire a native tutor for your child just yet. Songs and DVDs are a great start

[NewWorld2011]

Hypatia is also right about kids who learn languages watching TV. I personally know romanian people who has learnt spanish in this way. Perhaps the difference is between what is learning a "mother tongue" and, on the other hand, learning a "non mother tongue", where may be different parts of the brain involved.

I acknowledge that now i´m a little bit confused with this issue. 

[Anastasiya]

who has learnt spanish in this way.

It's impossible to LEARN any language just watching TV/movies/cartoons etc:)
A language is not just listening or learning words or even saying words! It's an endless process of cognition, communication, using  different sets of words/phrases in different situations. But don't think that having learned several hundreds in early childhood and not using them during some years you'll be able to speak this language.
BUT if you mean just knowing some tens of phrases and understanding easy words it's possible to learn them. But you should help your child anyway so - you should know what do you teach him/her:)

[DrPrimo]

Well...
i have to tell you about my friend who does not speak a WORD of french and sent her kids to a french mommy and me with a nanny (she didn't participate as she was working), then to a french immersion preschool and then on the french school here in LA.  her children were FLUENT in french by age 3 and are on the french track at the school... meaning that they have all their classes in french and will be taking the college tests in french when they get there.  the only thing they don't learn in french is english...
i have been toying with the idea to put my little girl on the same track, but i have no connection to france or the french language... but considering they only got it 1 hr/week in a mommy and me class for 2 years, and them were fluent by the time they completed their first year at preschool, i think that is a testament that kids do really pick up a language from even the smallest exposure.  at the very least, they will be familiar with it that learning it will be much easier for them than never being exposed to it.  we are in an italian mommy and me and she is picking things up.  i would love to find more classes like that, but i guess i should feel lucky that we even have ANY classes to participate in.  i speak italian to her, but it would be great to have more reinforcement with LR and other language programs.  I already have little pim and a few others... but that only goes so far.  it would be nice to find some italian programs that introduce more words and have flashcards, etc.
in any event, i know it can work... so just keep doing it!
the doc

[khatty]

Interesting discussion.  I am teaching my dd Spanish, and I do NOT know Spanish at all.  Will she ever learn Spanish as she know English - probably not.  However, I feel that effort into expanding her language brain center is worth it.  I hope that what she learns now will help her learn Spanish even better in the future, and hopefully help her learn any other languages she wishes to know.

Unfortunately, I do not know anyone in my community who speaks Spanish, so I am on my own.  I really really like LR, I find I learn best from LR.  One I learn a word, then I use it as much as I can.  So, right now I am combining English and Spanish together, but it is the best I can do.  I find my dd then uses the Spanish word instead of the English word.

We use Little Pim.  My dd likes it and does seem to be picking up some sentence combinations.  I do not seem to be able to process from Little Pim, but hearing some of the words used in sentences does help my pronunciation.

We also use some Usborne Spanish books.

It isn't a fast process, but it does seem to be slowly working.

[NewWorld2011]

It's impossible to LEARN any language just watching TV/movies/cartoons etc:)
A language is not just listening or learning words or even saying words! It's an endless process of cognition, communication, using  different sets of words/phrases in different situations. But don't think that having learned several hundreds in early childhood and not using them during some years you'll be able to speak this language.
BUT if you mean just knowing some tens of phrases and understanding easy words it's possible to learn them. But you should help your child anyway so - you should know what do you teach him/her:)

If we only use multimedia materials, perhaps children will not learn to speak a non mother tongue language. I agree that is better if parents learn that foreign language before because I think that interacting with our kids is esential.

Anyway i don´t mind if my son learns to speak a foreign language with 3 years instead of with 15, 20 or even with 50 years hahaha. The really important thing is giving a way to stimulate his neural conections, because I´m pretty sure that what he learns through right part of the brain, will be useful in the future helping him in comparison with other children without that stimulation.

And as Doman said, is better learn only one word than learning nothing.

[NewWorld2011]

I forgot to comment something important. Till now in Spain we only had the opportunity to watch films and TV series dubbed in spanish (at all the TVs and also at cinemas). In other european countries as in Latin American ones, films from United States or United Kingdom are shown in original version with subtitles.

Most children from Spain have a poor ability to distinguish sounds in english because they start to study it very late. However in Western Europe or South america children haven´t got such problem because they have been hearing and listening that sounds since they were babies.

[2010BEBES]

In other european countries as in Latin American ones, films from United States or United Kingdom are shown in original version with subtitles.

You are right, here in Peru we can watch some kids programs in english or spanish and that is very usefull if you do not have a good pronunciation.

[2010BEBES]

I found it very difficult to teach a language if no one from your surroundings speaks it.
Another issue is that yout kid has to be interested in learning that other language. Sometimes I have problems with my grandson asking for Spanish when I am trynig to show him somthing. I do not know if re realizes that it is not my native language?
Has someone been in a similar situation?

[NewWorld2011]

Of course that he realize that! Babies seek the most practical way to communicate obviating all the rest. So If your grandson knows that your mother tongue is spanish, be sure that he will want to speak with you in spanish instead of any other language.

In my case what I thought is involving him first in other languages more like "a game". So some words and sentences we'll use in particular contexts, so he realize that the only way to play those games are speaking in english or in chinese (for instance). For that purpose you can use some toys (dolls, puppets, teddy bears) and can convince him that each of them only understand a foreign language

Apart of playing the other thing all babies LOVE to do is something FORBIDDEN. So you can also use some kind of reverse psychology telling that you are studying english or chinese but HE is very little to do that. I am pretty sure that at least 90% of cases, kids will want to participate in something they see only adults do (even learning  language). Remember that toddlers always want to imitate the same things that make their parents or grandparents

[2010BEBES]

....). For that purpose you can use some toys (dolls, puppets, teddy bears) and can convince him that each of them only understand a foreign language

Apart of playing the other thing all babies LOVE to do is something FORBIDDEN. So you can also use some kind of reverse psychology telling that you are studying english or chinese but HE is very little to do that. I am pretty sure that at least 90% of cases, kids will want to participate in something they see only adults do (even learning  language). Remember that toddlers always want to imitate the same things that make their parents or grandparents

Thanks a lot for your suggetions. I will try to use them with him.

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