Doubts on the flashing programs?

[ariel]

I have tried Doman program with my daughter since she was 6 months and now she is 20 months.  We weren't as fast and consistent but we have been moving with the program surely.  I have to say the program doesn’t work the same for every kid as they promise or advertise.  True, every kid is different but still.   

For Doman reading, I still continue to show her new words.  I have even showed her sounds of letters using Doman way (show 5 cards - retire one and add new).  We have also been doing the Flesch cards thanks to DadDude (that we are doing without repeating offcourse).  I am not disappointed that my daughter can't read because  I didn't want to set high expectations and she is only 20 months.  But I am disappointed that she still doesn't know the letter sounds and she still can't recognize sight words.  I don't test her a lot but when I do she guesses.

She likes reading books or at least loves the pictures so we read at least 5 books a day repeating twice each book as she demands.     I taught her colors using Doman cards but every time I ask her color of something she responds with "blue".  Same with letter sounds everything is "ahh". 

Has anyone been through this?  After this, I am thinking my next approach is to drill her every day for letter sounds and test her.  But I really don't want to slow down and bore her by repeating.  I have tried with one or two letters and she does get bored and asks me to stop.

We did Baby signing time and that is the one thing that worked out great.  She learns all the signs pretty well and picks up the words also.  And she doesn’t give me the same sign for every word :P, which is a great plus.  We have moved on to signing time. 

We tried Doman math too...we were very consistent but when I would test her; I noticed that she was always guessing.  We were all the way up to equations.  I have just begun reshowing her that stuff again after not showing for 4 months.  In case she did pick it up or maybe was halfway, she might now pick it up better if at all.
 
When I read forums like “Life with a Kindergartener” and “Doman Inspired Parenting”, they say that their kids are able to remember things they learned through cards when they were babies.  The same does not hold true for my daughter.  I have verbally taught her few things although she had been flashed a card when she was young.  And I did not flash her like crazy rather I would talk and explain to her and use a multi-sensory approach as best as I could.

Anyone else seen similar progress or confusion?  What other techniques do you use to help them learn? 

Thanks,

[TeachingMyToddlers]

If your baby learned well through BST & ST, why not do more learning through video if she responded well to it? I am not saying to abandon flashing, but why not incorporate more videos? My DD picked up so much from the whole BST & ST series, so I knew she learned well by video. We did/do flashing too but I realized how effective videos were for her.

I would start with the Preschool Prep series and Leapfrog Letter Factory, add in some youtube phonics chants/songs, then when she masters that, move on to the My Montessori House series and Leapfrog Talking Word Factory to teach her word blending and putting the sounds she knows together. These were the videos for us that were the winning combination to teach colors, numbers, letter names, letter sounds (mostly you tube phonics taught that) and word blending.

She also learned about 50 sight words from the Preschool Prep Meet the Sight Words 1,2, & 3. The other sight words she knew she picked up from YBCR and LR.  We YBCR in the beginning before I ever knew about Doman style stuff from 4 months or so until about 15 months old or so until she mastered most of the YBCR sight words. We still show the videos for my son too, but she *only* was able to pick up sight words and single words/couplets from YBCR. She never made it to sentences from it, I have read that is a problem with lots of kids that use the program. She also never learned to sound out new words from it.

[Mandi Quiring]

Im a strong believer in combining phonics with sight words.... Sight words alone did not work for my son.  He recognizes the words we went through as a baby (hes now 4) ... however if we didnt go over a word he cant just figure it out... he currently can read simple dick and jane books... 

Chin up.  Make learning fun and keep doing what feels right and fun.  Drilling doesnt sound fun.  The word turned me off right away   Play and learn together.  Your efforts show that a learning environment is special to your family.  That will be the biggest play in having your child learn.  There are many different ways of learning and teaching... everyone is unique and your teaching style may have to be adapted for eah child.

Sooner or later you will see the beautiful sculpted individual that your are helping to mold and trust me theres not a doubt in my mind that one day you will be convienced she is the smartest kid in the world 

Keep smiling

MQ

[Skippy]

Going beyond flashing and flashcards..  Youtube has hundreds of clips for early learning. Type in the word PHONICS in youtube, and come up with over 100 clips.   I've found over a thousand for my grandson, now 2 1/2.  He has done Your Baby can read and Math with Doman Dots.  He watches 40-60 clips a week from Youtube. He also reveiws the clips a number of times.   All of  clips are found in advance and downloaded.  Do a search in the Youtube search box for phonics, counting, alphabet, etc.  Also Montesorri House has cute e-books.  Topics I have found are sight words, phonics, alphabet, How to print letters,  science, planets, nature, math, counting, adding subtracting, multiplying, colors, shapes, animals, Suzuki violin, piano, children's songs.  The clips are generally from 11 seconds to 3 minutes in length.  Want to learn a foreign language?? -- check out the Chinese, Japanese, Italian, German, etc.  The clips are so short that you can easily start or stop anywhere, depending on the child's interest.   Using Youtube can make any program that you are doing more interesting and fun!

Setting the child in a high chair with toys, cheerios, etc. is fine, while they watch.  Don't quiz them very much on what they are seeing and learning.  Just keep showing them things.


If the child is doing signs, try teaching flashcards of signs they already know.

[ariel]

I use Youtube but not as one primary mode of teaching.  I try to do away with computer/tv addiction as much as I can.   Baby Signing Time....I put on when I need time to cook.    However, I see what you guys are saying, I found many phonics slides on youtube and I have begun showing her these.  And I definately see how much her attention is captured by videos.

Although, its hard when I don't know where she stands.  I don't know how fast I can move on or whether I should repeat.  I do understand and agree that too much testing is not good either. 

We have done many flashcards and I am sure we have done most of the words in her BST videos.  But thanks Skippy that was a good idea.

Thanks everyone!  If you guys have anymore suggestions, I am open to them. 

[mirra]

There are many moms who said they are not successful with the Doman program. Moreover after child is 3 year old, they dont remember dot cards they saw. Also if they remember the words it is only by memorizing NOT understanding.

well, i am also skeptical now, after so much efforts and good results, what if my child cant remember anything after 3 years? also in math theere is no way we can teach beyond algebra. algebra is not all the math.

there are many ups and downs with many children who has implemented the program.

just one thing i feel - the flash programs - it definetely improves photographic memory. I know a 14 year old who did the doman program in my locality. he can memorize anything he is studying.

after all this i feel - let us implement the program atleast to some extent. but also teach phonics and keep reading books to them. that shud help..

one more - academics is not everything. the child should be happy and have values and great attitude. and extracurricular is equally important.

[linzy]

We had the same thing happen. At 18 months my son could read a fair number of words but would forget the, when we took them out of rotation. As for Doman math he never showed any sign that he got anything frm that program. That being said we also did YBCR and he never seemed to learn any words...Then we taught him the letters with the letter factory. At about 2.5 he mastered each of the meet the sightwords video in under 2 weeks. Around the same time we started "The Ordinary Parents guide to teaching reading" (starting after the letter section) and Reading Eggs. The whole time I continued reading at least 3 books a day. Once he had mastered Meet the sight words we moved on to Bob Books and level 1 readers. Now he just recently turned 4 and is reading chapter books on a 4th grade-ish level. So hang in there there will be months when you feel like you are making zeroprogress and then you will see progress by leaps and bounds.

[TeachingMyToddlers]

As far as screen time with computer/tv.....honestly I don't worry too much about it. I am far more concerned with content (no regular TV at all with the exception of the occasional wonderpets DVD). I figure 99% of the parents in America are busy indoctrinating their children to spongebob, so "too many" phonics youtube clips or Baby Signing Time videos probably aren't going to kill my kids. 

[TmS]

It's good to remember about the not so tangible results of these programs too....

There is a reason the Doman method has success with brain injured children - it helps the brain with the creation of new pathways etc (long scientific explanation required - but too tired).

Remember that the bonding, the instilling a love of reading and maths, the idea that education is fun and that mum and dad enjoy doing it with you - so many other positives -  are life long.

Even if my son forgets all of the words and all the maths, the pathways are set up - a huge advantage in itself. And I mean really who starts these programs because they want their child to have maths quantity recognition (great skill for a spy but most of us manage without it)?

As for working the same for every child. For that to be the case every child would need to have the exact same environmental set up - not just the same maths and reading lessons. There are many other factors that contribute to when your child will tell what they have learned.

For instance my son refused to show us he could read. I had to video him watching YBCR while we were out of the room so that I could check his reactions to discover that he was reading. With the maths I had no clue it had been working, as far as I could tell he didn't (doesn't) want a bar of it. Doesn't matter if it's Doman or LM and yet the other day we went to a strange house and as we were walking down the stairs he started counting backwards (about two thirds of the way down) one number per step, 7,6,5,4,3,2,1 and jumped onto the ground and yelled ZERO!!! It took me a while to realise how many things had just happened for a boy who refuses to do maths! He counted backwards, one number per object and he knew how many stairs were left. Have you ever tried that? I did I went and stood halfway up the stairs and honestly I didn't have a clue where to start counting.

So keep your chin up! At worst you are stimulating your child's brain and giving them great attitudes towards learning, at best well who knows what these little people are going to achieve in their future years hey?

As for TVs and Computers. Computers are worse than tvs, generally because we sit so close and for some reason we tend to blink less when reading at a computer and can get dry eyes etc. I believe that LCD screens are much better for the eyes as are HD tvs as the old refresh rates on the cathode ray tvs weren't great. I'm totally with LilyAndOwensMom on this one - content content content. In particular (while I worry about moral content) if the content flashes around too much and changes to quickly too often you can desensitize your child to stimulation.

[mirra]

Karma to you TMS. The most important thing is bonding "instilling a love of reading and maths"... yes that is what is indeed needed.

[waterdreamer]

I just ran a little test on my son. I know bad mommy, but he doesn't mind showing off.
I took a little pile of words we use to flash. Now because my son was older I modified the Doman program and we flashed to words till he would say the word before I did. At that point I would retire them.
While I tested him I made two piles. Ones he got right and ones he didn't. He managed to get 41/58 correct. That's 70% correct. Now some of the words that were in the wrong pile he figured out by sounding them out. But I was looking for instant answers as correct. Of course I still praised him just the same for working it out.
Now in my personal option 70% retention is not bad. I mean it's why more then he would have had should I have decided not to flash words with him.
TmS has it right though, it's about bonding and pathways more then instant results.
Best wishes
Monique

[lhdvm00]

Ariel,
This is such a great discussion - lots of good info here!!!!!  But back to your original post:  I'm now teaching my 4th baby.  The first 3 are all reading and they ALL (2 girls, 1 boy) went thru this phase from around 20 months to about 30 months where they acted like they couldn't read, wouldn't sit thru a book, dvd, flashcards, anything!  Drove me nuts!  I think that this is probably a normal phase - they are realizing the world is a very big, interesting place and they have so much to do!  One is still in the midst of this, and tonight HE READ A SENTENCE!!!!  Woo Hoo!  All of mine did that calling all colors the same thing-thing....I've decided it means that they know colors, get the concept, but don't have the speaking ability to articulate that yet.  And mine always call all letters their "pet" letter name for a while.  If she hates something, maybe take a break from that or change your approach somehow?  Mine seem to stall sometimes and then make sudden leaps - I've learned to look for it!  Maybe she's really worried about some other skill right now, like potty-training or putting on shoes and her mind is just distracted.  Our son refuses to be tested, so I don't even try with him - I just praise him for looking at the book or cards and move on.  It really sounds like you are doing great!!!!!!!!!!!  She'll get it, and you will be SOOOOO proud!
Hugs to you!
Lynn

[ariel]

Thanks everyone! for the great comments and showing me the light on the other side of the tunnel.   I am continuing with what I was doing before except with more videos.  She memorizes from fun videos that she watches pretty well.  Hopefully, I'll see some signs of phonic recognition soon.

Monique, 70% retention is not bad at all.  At least he'll havea  easier time learning next time around. 

I forgot to mention, the positive part abt my DD is that when I show her cards she always watches attentively and asks for more; same thing w/ boooks.  I would say that is what keeps me going 

[nohayo]

I'm totally with LilyAndOwensMom on this one - content content content. In particular (while I worry about moral content) if the content flashes around too much and changes to quickly too often you can desensitize your child to stimulation.

Hi

could you tell me what you mean by that? do you mean we shouldn't flash too much coz its too stimulating??

thanks!
Noha

[TmS]

Oh my goodness no....I'm so sorry that wasn't very clearly written at all was it?

I talking specifically about television programs. It is a trend these days for directors to have rapidly changing scenes that can be overwhelming (I myself can find movies these days a little disorientating when they move too rapidly).

I have read numerous accounts that relate that this is the main danger in television, that children become so stimulated by the rapid scene changes and music and excitement that normal flash cards etc afterwards don't stimulate them enough to interest them - they want the rapidity of the television.

This is a time when children are making sense of the world around them and we are supposed to be helping them to get a feel for that world and find their place in it. It is important that the stimulations we give them are representing a real life and the real world. This is the true problem with content, shows like spongebob are not representations of the real world, they do not help a child to find their place in it - all they do is misinform and allow children to draw incorrect conclusions.

Sorry this still isn't making much sense....if you want me to clarify it some more let me know and I'll tackle it when my mind is not in zombie state

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