Afterschooling in a higher level

[mario]

Hi!

Well, as some of you already know, my son is really young. He is 18 months. Today I bought LR and we are also doing Little Musician. He is loving it now. But I also wonder: what is next?

Ok, ok. There is a lot of topics about it here. I'm still reading them. I got here only two weeks ago. Saxon, Robinson... I still don't know what you are all talking about, but I'll get there 

Before getting into this forum, I used to think about Laurel Springs. I have already talked to them. I still think this is a good idea since I'm doing OPOL with my son. I speak in English with him and I think it's natural to afterschool him in English. While enrolled in a online school, he will have more friends, teachers and thus more reason to use English than just talk to me.

There is one thing I must say to you. I don't want to homeschool my kid for two reasons:

- First, it is forbidden in Brazil. There are few people doing this in this 200-million-people country and they always have problem with the laws.
- Second, since this is so uncommon here, I don't want my child to have a different social life. I still think it is very important to go to school and have friends, fall in love, etc.

That goes to the point of afterschooling a kid in a level higher than what he/she is getting in a regular school. What is your opinion about it? Does anyone have experienced this? I'm still more than 5 years from that but I'm very curious 

Thanks in advance.

[teachingmykids]

I afterschool my kindergartner right now. I didn't do EL with her so she isn't really advanced for her age. I do work with her on a regular basis though at her level and it recently really paid off in reading where she made huge gains in a short period of time once things finally clicked for her. I plan on devoting more time to math now to get her ahead of the game in math now too. I plan on working with my kids over the summer on skills. Right now it is easier to afterschool while she is in half day school and she only has homework on weekends but I do plan on doing what I can even next year even if I don't have that much time to work with. I definitely devote a decent chunk of time to reading every day and I buy quality books on a variety of subjects. We also have a history audio cd we listen to in the car. I also have a few educational science videos she watches. So far the afterschool is paying off. For my younger kids who get stuff earlier they may even be more ahead but I don't think that will be an issue. The school they go to is academically ahead of the rest of the district. They don't differentiate instruction but there are other advanced kids in her class. I rather the kids know what they are going over in class and find it easy then to struggle through it.

[mario]

That is great to know teachingmykids.

I can see you are doing well. I hope I can handle this way too when my son reach this age.

[Mandabplus3]

I after school all three of my kids at a higher level. They are between 2-3 years ahead in math and all are multiple years ahead in English ( reading, writing and comprehention)
At first I found it difficult to wrap my head around why I was doing it. Knowing they would be bored in school and have to do the same work twice but now I can see it is the right choice. My children all LOVE school. They find it easy and they have beautiful friends. There work is finished quickly and to a high standard and they get some extension ( not a lot but they do get some) and great results on their report cards 
In the beginning I used to after school based on extending in breath and depth rather than height. So if the topic they were covering in school was the five senses we would learn about how an ear works, learn about neurons ect. It worked very well for the first 2 years of school and my children have a wonderful depth of knowledge to draw on for discussion.
Now somewhere around grade 2-3 I realised my kids were not excelling as much as they used to, so I sat back and thought about it. I completely changed my focus. I discovered a lazy teacher who gave one of my girls a year off. Completely!. From that moment on I decided I was in charge of their education and I will make the decisions as to what they are expected to learn and know. I selected the focus areas I dreamed important and now I teach that instead of extending on the school topics.
The children all do a math program that is completely separate to their school math. They read a lot of non fiction books for their general knowledge and they write what I tell em to!  I no longer rely on the school for their books and readers.
It is difficult to do after schooling if the school they attend gives lots of homework ( my kids get a ridiculous amount of homework!) but possible with some juggling and occasional negotiating with the school. ( we read our books not the school readers now, as they are at a higher level) we set clear goals for completion each week and build on from our successes.
The girls (7,9) do 3-5 Saxon lessons a week, read classical literature and non fiction literature. My son (5) does a page of math questions, a math game for math facts, reads me a book everyday, and joins in our group learning. Our group learning is history audio in the car, at least one DVD ( usually a documentary or math DVD) and group non fiction read alouds. Thy all study piano, taekwondo and the girls do Gymnastics ( Jaykob is having a break from Gym because he just started school a few weeks ago)

[mario]

Mandabplus3, this is really the kind of case I wanted to read. Thank you so much! And congratulations for your wonderful job.

[teachingmykids]

Thank you Manda. You are a few years ahead of me so it was helpful to hear your story since a lot on here are homeschooling. I had a few questions for you. Did you do EL with all 3 of your kids. When they started kindergarten were they as far ahead as they are now or did the afterschooling help? Were they always advanced learners or was it the afterschooling?  How much time do you spend on subjects? Do your kids have free play time too?

[Mandabplus3]

Great questions! 
I did EL ( early learning) with my oldest and youngest. My oldest got EL from age 9 months til her sister turned into a nightmare at around age 3. Then I completely gave up in favour of sanity survival. I was probably post natal at that point. My second child meant a complete life change for me. I couldn't continue with my previous career and have kids so I was lost.
My difficult ( read tantrum chucking, psycho screaming, high stress) 2nd child got no EL on purpose but accidentally got some apparently    we were in survival mode with her.
My last baby got EL from 3 years 11 months until 5 years. Basically I taught him to read and do math.
All of my children were heavily encouraged to use their physical skills from birth. It is something I naturally understood. Walking is important- get it done ASAP! Swimming is important ( in Australia) - learn it early. Running is fun- do it. Simple right? In truth I hated that stage kids go through we're they are old enough to want to follow you around the house and can't so they cry. I just taught my kids to MOVE early. All were crawling by 6 months and walking at 9,8 and 10 months. I mention this because I think the early mobility made a huge difference in my children's overall intelligence. They knew how to walk so they could focus on other things from that day on ( about 3-6 months more focus time than other kids get!)
So in answer to your question 1 of my kids was advanced in terms of general knowledge and intelligence but wasn't reading ( she could write and had great fine motor and awesome gross motor skills). I think her advanced placement comes from a combination of EL and after schooling. She learnt to read faster than you could believe so she was certainly taking in all those flash cards even if she didn't read to me before school. The level she is at now she is at because of the after schooling. If you don't keep teaching them they will stop learning and plato out with the other kids. She maintains that high level easily because of the EL she had. 
My 2nd child was basically normal but intelligent. She got little EL but a quality upbringing. We read stories every night and lots of non fiction. Very limited TV as we discovered that was what makes her PHSYCO! In her first year of school she was probably in the top quarter of her class. Her after schooling gets almost full credit for her high achievement now. A small amount of credit goes to her choice of friends I think. Her closest friend is gifted and I can't help but think that would rub off on her. I truly can't explain why she is as good as she is at math. But her advanced reading is all me. 
My youngest has just started school. I taught him to read last year using LR, phonics and sight word readers. (you know those little books full of sight words?) oh and meet the sight words DVDs and APPs. Love those! He has started school a year ahead in reading. They haven't even started reading in his class yet. Doing the alphabet thing still. He learnt math from me knowing what to teach and little math. Little math while not perfect does give kids a great foundation in understanding numbers. It does need to be supplemented with some physical activities. I read marshmallow math and used some right start ( he loves the abacus!) and mathtacular DVDs ( he LOVES them!) but we just played with numbers a few times a week. Right now we are memorising number facts with him. He knows his combinations to 10 from playing " go to the dump" and we are deciding what to teach next. Math card games are a hit at this house. His success is purely from EL. He will be streets ahead of his peers in a couple of years. ( lucky his best friend has a gifted sister! )
My children get lots of free play time. I actually restrict our time away from the home on the weekends to make sure they get plenty of time to just be kids and play. They climb trees, play dolls, build Lego, paint, do crafts, fight, draw, play cars, and use their imaginations to build cubby houses. It's really important to me they get time to do all this as some of my fondest childhood memories are the long stretches of time playing with Lego outside in the pile of rocks we has instead of a sandpit.  I schedule in play time!
The time we spend on different subject varies. Math is fairly consistent it takes my oldest 40 mins 3-5 times a week to do her Saxon. My middle child does it faster  they read every night before bed for 30-40 mins and often have a book in hand throughout the day. So probably an hour a day ( their choice too  )
History is a 10 minutes in the car a couple of times a week. Plus the DVD 30 mins twice a week. Gymnastics takes 6 hours out of their week ( advanced levels) piano practice is 10-20 mins every second day ( every day would be great but we just don't manage it) and Taekwondo is an hour a week plus 10 mins a few times a week for skills practice and patterns. They are going for red belt this year.
For writing each day my son writes whatever words he wants to. My middle child does a lesson in writing with ease 10 mins gets her through 3 days worth. And my oldest hasn't managed to fit writing in on top of her home work this year.
They all have math facts as part of their homework PHEW! 
Gosh I think I just wrote a novel! 

[Rachel NZ]

Amanda,
Please tell me how your daughters get on with classwork that is not aimed at their level?
How much flexibility/extension have you negotiated with your school.
Is the before-schooling and gymnastics enough to keep them satisfied?

We are a wee way off yet (not due till July) but I have been trawling the forum and researching links.
Its REALLY great to find the detail in your last post here. Thank you.
We live in NZ now but plan to bring our little man up in Aussie.

My partner is onboard with EL, having seen the possibilities with my niece (almost 2).
School is a big issue though.
He remembers school as unchallenging and boring. He is concerned that an advanced kid will be labeled a troublemaker or slow.
Ive read lots of homeschool posts and blogs where this the reason they took their kids out of school.
That's not an option for him.

[Ilala]

But what if the school system as we know it now is defunct when your baby is five years old.

What if you hold your baby back so he can conform to today's style of school system.

Let"s say:-
Don't take advantage of the proven research on baby brain development.
Don't  do Early learning at 6months.

Don't encourage a second language when babies have the biggest window of opportunity.
Don't advance the child"s social skills and their ability to executively control their attention and concentration and problem solving skills.

You will be placing your son outside the norm because most of the world speaks more than one language.

Yes I know this argument is silly.
Like the old "yellow peril " racism threat.

But it is also silly to hold a child back.

See IrisGrinstedt post on page 2 of this forum.
She refers to a TED talk (this years winner)
The Cloud School

The speaker describes the history of the school system as a Victorian english invention.
Successful in producing a world wide machine made of people who cooperate like ants.
Suitable for survival in a trench under fire.
He says a system where children are taught to conform to learn under duress and cope under stress.
He suggest that children learn faster through play and positive affirmation .
And that the school system as we know it will not exist.

He says they can teach themselves.
In his new way of cloud education he uses "grandmothers"
Not as educators but as encourager s.

   so I don't have to up skill my maths to be useful to my grandchildren after all.

[Ilala]

A true story your own grandmother told me.
When she was very little the whole town knew that a new invention called the motor car was expected to drive through the town.
A horseless carriage.
They could hear it coming from a long distance away.
Her mother held all the children back from the road and let it go past without the advantage of a close look.
It was so dangerous.

[Rachel NZ]

Ilala:
Mum, of course EL is GOING to happen at our house. And you'll be there a lot of the time doing a lot of the work 
I think its highly UNlikely that conventional school will have changed AT ALL in the next 5 years in NZ and Australia.

School is big a concern, for our baby and for your other grandchild.
Amanda seems to have it all running smoothly
I just wanted to open the conversation towards modifying behaviour (of kids and of schools)

[Mandabplus3]

Hehe funny family chat 
I think what you really want to know is would I do it again? YES! I would actually teach them even more!
My kids love school. They really love it. They don't want to get sick and miss out. They sometimes tell me they don't want to leave the class for their piano lessons in case they mis something! They enjoy education!
My biggest issue ( which will probably be yours too) is how to raise children who arnt lazy and can think for themselves if they already know the answers in class.
This is the reason I before/after school them. I want them all to know what a challenge is. I want them to learn how to stick with something difficult. I want them to be able to think through a problem themselves.
The after schooling we do IS enough for them. If it wasn't I probably would need to look at homeschooling or gifted schooling. ( not entirely ruled out yet in either case for the future) I don't need to move my kids education because they are happy and content at school. I can give them the challenge and extension at home so our bases are covered ( and I can go to work!  )
Their sporting activities are carefully selected to be NOT dependant on age for promotion. We tried a few classes that were age based segregation and it was a total waste of time. At age 2 my oldest was kicked out of JNR gymnastics meant for 3-5 year olds because she was too good. They didn't have a class for her. We had a couple of years off and re joined at a higher level that wasn't age based. Taekwondo is the same, it's a mixed age class, I compete with and against my own kids! Piano also travels at the pace you set rather than by age.
As the kids get older I can negotiate more extension. When they are in prep grade 1,2 the isn't a lot of room to move. We did get advanced readers from grade 1 onwards and they always had extra spelling words. In class they just do the work the other kids do and then dabble in extension activities. Te are a couple of other bright kids too so that helps.  The trick to negotiating curriculum is to develop good relationships with the school and the teachers. Once your kids hit high school ( year 7 in Australia) there is much more room to move. They can do a year 9 math class in year 7 etc. they can also do TAFE AND school and get a diploma and or they can do a university unit in grade 11 or 12. And those paths are easy and available to all bright kids. If your child is well ahead of the pack then there will be other options available for parents who go looking.
I wouldn't NOT teach based on any of the school issues we have had. Overall it is still better to be over educated and bored than not to be.

[mario]

I'm seeing great stories here. Feel free to keep the family chat because I'm learning a lot    

[teachingmykids]

Thank you Amanda. That was really helpful to hear. I was feeling so guilty for starting so late with my kids but I did start by a little before 4 with my son and a little before 2 with my youngest and I always read a lot to my kids. I been wondering if I should try to get ds to watch little reader and math to even though he is 4. He doesn't love it but it is so short I think I will convince him to sit through them. I was super worried about my oldest who is 6. Reading was hard work for her but we figured it out an she is really coming along. I just want to do some stuff with multi syllable words with her and then I can be done with reading instruction and have more time to focus on math and other subjects. It is nice that she can pick up books on her own and read instructions now. My second child threw me for a loop too. I was in survival mode for a while too. He didn't sleep and was so fussy. He still is difficult in many ways but we are no longer in survival mode. If we do have more kids I will start from the start and my other kids will be older so we won't be stuck in survival mode.

[Mandabplus3]

By all means get your 4 year old to watch LR along with you. I use it with my kindy class and its a very active session with lots of laughter. We zip through it some days as fast as we can but most days we take our time. We act out all the multi sensory parts, in my class we work on a few letters and sounds at a time so we also look for those letters and sounds in the words. Any small words we will sound out as a group. When we get to the word split I turn off the sound ( really should do that in the override section one day!) and the children sound out and put together the word. If its a big word, I give them the separated parts and they give me the whole word. Therel are many ways to make it interactive and that's the key for a 4 year old. Laugh be stupid and act the clown!  alternatively go as fast as you can through the entire thing.
At age 4 I recommend you really focus in on the reading. Teach systematic phonics, blending and teach Sightwords as well. Do 3 activities each day for 5 minutes and you will be all set!
As for little math, well my boy did benefit from it and if you already have it then use it. Your child probably won't get subtilising abilities or amazing math skills BUT it does give them a solid understanding of number quantity and that is very valuable. It's also good for teaching skip counting! Again zip through as fast as you can. Also don't insist on finishing every lesson. I don't think we ever finished a lesson in one sitting. I figured half a lesson was better than none! And we just moved on to the next lesson next time around.
Little math alone won't make a 4 year old a mathematician. S you will need something else too. My son loved numbers but more than any thing he loves the abacus from right start. Run through the list of activities in IXL for preschool and kindergarten ( even grade 1) and teach those things any way you can. Grab a copy of marshmallow math or kitchen table math for inspiration and your re off to a good start. Sometime in the next year or 2 teach all your children their math facts to 10 BY MEMORY. Off by heart. Instant recal  and they will thank you for years!
Don't worry about the guilt. None of us a perfect but nearly all mistakes can be rectified and you can start as late as 12 and still catch up so you have years of leeway 

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