Overall education- Acceleration vs Depth

[Korrale4kq]

Sea star,
Your question about acceleration reminded me of a friend. She went to college at 16, via a public school route. She was going through the public school system at the same rate as her peers until high school. She chose AP classes as often as she could. And she did summer classes, because frankly summer vacation bored her. So summer classes accelerated her 2 years.

[Korrale4kq]

Another post by the father Of the Harding family who some kids started college at 12. The rest are under 12.

http://www.examiner.com/article/can-kids-really-start-college-when-they-are-twelve-years-old

[nee1]

Thanks a lot to Cokers4life and Korrale for posting the links to the articles written by Kitchener Harding, dad of the 10 Harding kids. Thank you, thank you, and thank you. It was very interesting to read about the approach he used.

I'm seeing that the Harding family used the same approaches as the Swann family. Few hours of daily structured learning, leaving time for the kids to play or pursue their own interests. Doing school all year round at an accelerated pace. And planning ahead for college, just as Swann family did. Good to know.

Please if anyone has read the Harding's 'College by Twelve' book, kindly share some details. Thank you.

[Mandabplus3]

Well this post is making me think! Thanks to you all for that!
So a few points....
Just because a child can read at a 9th grade level in grade 3 does NOT mean they are ready for college textbooks, or even some of those more advanced classics we all would love our children to read. My grade 3 9 year old would have very little success studying a university degree textbook. She can't quite yet pull out the contents and twist it around to form an argument or supportive argument to write those essays required to pass. Why? Well I think it is a combination of both age and maturity as well as just the fact that at her age she just hasn't read enough books in total yet! Possible if you were aiming for early college you could spend more time on pursuasive writing and ensuring that almost ALL the books they read are advanced ( due to time constraints you would need to abolish reading that wasn't extending).
If after schooling then yes this is going to cause all sorts of problems. Not sure that's a good enough reason not to do it though    my kids are currently running about 2 years ahead in math and much further than that in reading. Oddly enouh the teachers havnt really noticed the math. They have mentioned that they are very good at math but no one has ever tested them to the ceiling of their ability. So math won't be a problem. Reading levels are easy to adjust in school also. The problems come with everything else!  Grammer if taught early will bore your children to sleep when they learn it in class, handwriting, same problem. Science in schools now is usually hands on experiments or stuff we wouldn't touch at home as it's busy work. Your kids won't be challenged at all here until high school if you are lucky. They might not mind though. My kids enjoy the experiments and just spend the time asking questions about the chemical properties that the teachers can't answer, or teaching the other kids the real science behind it. 
Basically what is done in school is 10% education and 90% busy work related to that education so excelerating isn't too hard. I do believe that depth is important. The goal overall is a well rounded, productive and interesting person, not a race to college. I tend to after school more on depth than acceleration. Always have. Even in focussing on depth you will end up accelerated without trying to.
Looking forward to reading all the articles and books to see if I change my mind 

[sonya_post]

Nee I did purchase the book. It is a little rambling. I like things nice short and to the point. I'm in the process of skimming. They are a bit more relaxed than the Swann family. They are skippers. Meaning if a child knows it - skip ahead. No need to do endless drills of material already mastered. The point here really is that there a lots of routes to the same destination. And one of those routes will surely fit your family. BTW - kids were doing Algebra at 8-9.

[sonya_post]

For the Record - still not sending my child to college before 16. But, this does provide a child with lots of time to pick and study things in depth for several years before heading off to college. Even if you aren't sending them to college, the option  of taking college courses online/through the local HS (for those in the States) does provide an avenue for accelerated college.

[nee1]

Mandab, my thoughts on your post are these:
If afterschooling, one can go for depth and some acceleration, but if homeschooling, one can achieve both depth and  acceleration. Why? If the kid is going to learn a similar thing in school, the parent may decide to only deepen the knowledge, as school may only have imparted surface knowledge.

But if homeschooling, one can easily achieve both depth and acceleration. Why? Because the kid's time is not being wasted (as being done in school), and the parents can achieve much greater acceleration and depth at the same time. Say a homeschooling parent decides to spend 1 hour on math during a homeschooling day. The kid finishes the 1st lesson in 30 minutes. The parent can easily add in another lesson for the kid to finish during the remaining 30 minutes. But if in school, the kid will have to wait for the other kids to finish, and by the time the other kids finish, the math lesson time is up, and the kid's valuable learning time is lost. And coupled with the busy work that usually takes place in school, most kids simply waste valuable learning time there.

Like the Harding dad said in the article Korrale posted, the feats his family have accomplished can easily be reproduced if one is homeschooling. I believe him. Here again is the link: http://www.examiner.com/article/can-kids-really-start-college-when-they-are-twelve-years-old.
The first tip the Harding dad gives in the article summary is this:  ``If able, Homeschool - not even the most prestigious private schools can give you results like this''.

I believe him. I've studied his articles somewhat closely, and I've compared it with the Swann family articles, and yes, I believe that such feats are reproducible, and the kids will get both depth and acceleration. And both families succeeded with 10 kids each, so there must something in what they did.

EDIT: By the way, I know homeschooling is not for everyone, but I know it could be a superior method of teaching (if one does it right). One-on-one teaching (such as we find in homeschooling) has been found to be very effective, and research bears this out. I was listening to a Teaching Company tape titled 'Art of Teaching' and the professor mentioned that some of his best students at Emory University were homeschooled. The professor mentioned stuff about the one-on-one teaching (or tutoring) that he does as professor, and how it is more effective than general class teaching. For example, he mentioned that during one-on-one tutoring, he could be more honest with the student about his/her work, he could more tailor the instruction to the student's level, etc. Considering that that is what the Swann and Harding families did, their success is not very suprising.

[nee1]

Sonya,

Could you please give more details when you're done with the book? Thanks.

[cokers4life]

the college level text books was a bit over reaching... (of course, my intro college textbooks were at high school level but it served an economically disadvantaged group mostly).  I was just throwing something out there.  I am just trying to figure out how its done.  The other article that someone sited on the Harding family was much more indepth on their method.  Thanks for that link.  I thought I would throw out some questions on the article that I had.

"5. Do basic math everyday and skip ahead as fast as they can go. Get to pre-Algebra and algebra by age 8 or 9 years old. They can memorize their math facts as they are learning new concepts (Do not hold them back if they get stuck on 7 x ."

I often wondered this.  I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to go to the next concept without first memorizing all math facts.   My son gets addition and subtraction, but I realize its going to take lots of practice and repitition before mastery.   Should I move on to the next concept anyway?  When should I introduce multiplication?  Should I start larger two digit and three digit addition?   There really isn't a spine to guide you through math without lots of repitition...right?   

I realize sending children to college early is quite controversial whether you believe in acceleration or not.  It appears that most of the children did distance learning education.  ???  I did see the video of one of the children sitting in a college classroom.   I live in a college town with several universities, and I have plans of relocating in eight years to North Carolina where there is a university on every corner (go Tarheels!).  For me, I wouldn't have an issue dropping them off at the university everyday for school.  (Going to college early is quite controversial in my own house even with myself as we play a lot of sports and are developing are children for sports.  I really don't know what we will do when we cross that bridge.  As far as certain careers not being able to accelerate like music, I don't think I will have to worry about that one as we are not a very musical family.)

"7. By age 8 or 9 they can be reading high school level books in a great variety of subjects. (NOT boring high school textbooks like most of us were forced to read) Give them REAL quality books. Supplementing with educational videos and TV shows is always great family bonding time."  -quote from article about Harding Family's methods

What books do you think they used?  What books would you use?

"8. Keep track of all their work and activities that are "high school" level so that you can put it on their transcript."

What would be considered high school level work?   Papers?   What activities?   

Just pondering.  Its a lot to wrap your mind a round. 

In one group, you have those who accelerated a child by having them spend two to three hours of math a day.   In another group, you have those who accelerated a child by having them do way less hours.   Sure you can accelerate a child through Saxon, but its still going to take the same amount of hours if you do every problem.   It seems that this family didn't do that at all.  Maybe I am reading it wrong.
 

[Tamsyn]

Somehow I missed Wolfwind's post yesterday.  I would love to meet you too!

Yes, your learning phases are pretty much what I was thinking.  I was tentatively thinking I would do two grades a calender year minimum.  They might go faster in the subjects they love, but on the subjects they don't love so much, well, they will have to keep that pace.  I like the idea of year-round school, but I think I would have to take a break now and again.  I give myself 6 weeks off after I have a baby (I NEED that!) and I LOVE taking the whole month of December to delve into Christmas stuff, making gifts, yummy treats, reading Christmas literature, service projects, and other activities that are not as academic.  I did this last year, and it was a great family bonding time.  On the other hand, I like doing school in the summer, because frankly, I don't like being outside in the hot sun.

As far as what books I want to use for the upper grades, I am planning on doing Saxon for math, Apologia science (Christian based, some of my friends have given me raving reviews), and A Beka for higher reading.  My mom had one of their textbooks when I was in high school, but it was above my head, and my mom had a hard time mentoring me, so we just read a lot of classic books that I did reports on instead.  My husband had an amazing AP English class in high school, and the stuff he learned was similar to what was in that A Beka book, so I wished I would have stuck with it.  Having said that, I was well prepared for college with what I did.  For history, I'm not sure what I'll do for world history, but I do know that I will require my children to study "To Preserve The Nation" by Scott Bradley for American history (I'm American).  http://topreservethenation.com/.  Scott Bradley is local for me, and I have heard him speak many times.  The man is a genius, and his moral character is exceptionally high.  I can't recommend his materials enough, although they are pricey.  I personally have only purchased the book itself, and may or may not buy the CDs, etc, when my kids are old enough for them.

My thoughts on math- not every child will be math oriented, and Algebra 2 is all that is required in PS for college when you look at it.  I'm not going to require Calculus of my kids, although my husband could certainly help them if they feel inclined.  Rather, I am going to require up to Algebra 2, and one higher math-ish course of their choosing.  For example, I have a fantastic music theory book from my college days that requires a lot of math in a round-about way, and that would be an option for my kids.  If they are interested in art, we could find an art-related math course, etc.

I am also going to require all of my kids to finish John Thompson's 4th grade piano book minimum, and encourage grade 5.  One book per calender year is my goal (naturally, they may go faster if they feel inclined ).  I like John Thompson a lot more than any other piano method because he progresses faster (it's a great method for kids who actually practice!!!).  He also uses primary sources a lot in his books.  I cringe when I see Alfred, which I don't recommend for a lot of reasons.  A lot of the theory in Alfred is wrong, but on top of that, they take something like Beethoven's Moonlight sonata, take an excerpt, and transpose it to A minor (relative to C major, no sharps or flats).  It's exactly the same, only in C.  Sorry, most classical music is not in C.  John Thompson doesn't shy from incorporating real, original music in his books, and if he arranged it, it is clearly marked as such.  His arrangements are really good.  His course also involves reading from 3 staves, which serves as a natural bridge to learning organ, should the child go that route.

Other than that, I don't have any particular books in mind for high school, but I look forward to seeing what others come up with.  When the student is ready, the books will be there.  We're just not ready for that yet.  Lucky for me, when I'm ready, all of you will be here.   

[sonya_post]

Below is their schedule from their book,. These guys are pretty loosey goosey about curriculum. They did do Saxon, but they also had problems with it and math in general so they kept it the first subject of the day. They kept the kids motivation because they didn't do all the problems. They skipped a lot of repetitive work in all subjects.  I recently looked up Saxon on What Works Clearninghouse. - read the report and make up your own mind. Thye combined as many subjects as they could and this really depended on the child.

The book is not worth ordering unless you are looking for VERY preachy inspirational read motivating you that your children too can achieve their dreams. These guys are fundamentalist Christians. I don't mind that, I am a Christian, but I found the writing hard to take - it is really pushy. The books they used were anything they had on hand. She basically says that after the equivalent of 3rd grade they homeschooled with a library card. The kids worked at their own pace and educated themselves. What they did do that I thought was great and why I like the idea of finishing math and sciences early is that they encouraged their children to pursue their interests wherever that led them. this kept them motivated through the rough parts of math. They held out early college as a carrot to keep them on track. When you finish HS then you can go to college and do whatever you want. So the motivation to get finished quickly was strong especially when you watch your siblings doing it. The kids read ALOT! They had requirement and then they were free to read on their own.

This is doable by anyone with nearly any teaching style. None of these kids were EL. For the USA, in most staes school are required to provide your child with the education he requires. That means that if your child has run out of HS courses they must provide them with college courses and they must pay for them. The problem with that lies only in that if you are going to apply for the National Merit Scholarship program, you are only allowed so many credits before you are no longer considered a HS student. 

As far as skipping stuff, that may have prevented them from having a knockdown dragout over Saxon, but some of their children would have done better to wait a year to take their SATs If the point is scholarships and money - one of the reasons they cite for doing college at 12, then if their children scored higher in the math section they would be in a better position to get funding.

The lesson to take away from this again is that it doesn't take all the long to educate a child. Not really. You just have to keep at it, move quicker than the curriculum suggests. Keep track of HS work. You don't have to keep it all, but your child should have a portfolio of past work to show admissions. There is info online on how to make a portfolio and what to put in it.

Organized Chaos
People always comment, “So you must have a strict schedule
to get it all done.” I am usually very tongue-tied trying to
explain that we really don’t have a schedule. It is more like a
“to-do” list for each child. We get up as early as we can,
(depending on what we were doing as a family the night before)
and then work to reach some simple goals:
1. Clean rooms, get dressed
2. Eat breakfast
3. Comb hair, brush teeth
4. Chores (dishes, trash, pick up stuff around house, feed
and water dog, clean table, etc.)
Each kid does the same chores every day. Changes are made
as they get older.
5. Start school with Bible reading because we know that
the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. We are
teaching our kids that their character development is the
most important part of their education.
6. Mathematics-We do this second every day because it is
incremental and shouldn’t be skipped if the day gets
“crazy.”
7. They need to write everyday-a letter, an essay, a journal
entry, a page of dictation, etc…
8. Lots of reading-biographies, historical fiction, science
books. Then they can read fiction for fun. (ie. quality
literature like Chronicles of Narnia or The Boxcar
Children during the early years.
9. P.E. everyday includes: jumping on the trampoline,
family walks, hikes, and victory sports league (our local
Christian homeschool sports organization).

[hypatia]

I only read the first post, but just want to say
This summer, the book "No regrets" was free for download for the Kindle on the Amazon website .
I don't have the Kindle but have the app on my Ipad.

[Kerileanne99]

Thanks Hypatia-
I  just had a look and it is still free if you have Amazon Prime, or $2.99 without...

[Korrale4kq]

Only free for prime IF you have a kindle and not an app.
But 2.99 is better than $20.

[Kerileanne99]

 I managed to get it for free with Kindle App and Amazon Prime...we will see if it is worth a read...
Sonya_Post is dead on regarding the Fundamentalist Christian Nature of the other book...I could barely get through it as it wasn't so much a help in methods as it was a forceful push of beliefs....

The most important thing I would say regarding acceleration:
I ended up graduating at 15 from American HS, a few months shy of my 16th birthday.  And Not because I was just so particularly brilliant, but because of a specific home situation. After watching two step-sisters drop out, I discovered that a better path would be accelerating as much as possible to complete the HS requirements and move on to college.
This is exactly what I did, and the amount of work it entailed was actually ridiculously small, thinking back!!!!!!

The problem came at university: barely 16 years old, living in a dorm, the life of a much older 'adult'. Without the support of a family, it was just way too much!
Luckily, I was able to recognize this and the need for structure: I joined the army and had four more years to mature, as well as ensuring that college was paid fo.

My most important message would be, if you strike out on this path, your child will indeed be prepared academically (I took all AP classes in HS and never had an issue with material in college.), BUT they will need a good, strong support system at home to successfully meet all their needs and achieve their potential!

This has been one of the major criteria for our family in choice on job and location...by working at the Uni, all classes for my daughter will be paid for, regardless of age, audit, or taking for credit...

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