Overall education- Acceleration vs Depth

[Kimba15]

So I am just going to throw the cat among the pigeons and ask "What is wrong in just being a kid" I have no problem with children being academically ahead and advancing themselves but there is a lot to childhood and 12 is so young for uni when there is a lot of 'adult' things Drinking and partying and I do not know of how many 18year olds want to hang out with a 12 year old. I know there is online uni courses now but do you think it is important that children progess naturally to maturity rather than accelerate them putting them in an adult world before they are emotionally and physically (going through puberty when all the others are finished) ready?

[Mandabplus3]

Yes Kimba, I wouldn't send one of my kids off to colege early. I love them too much to let them leave home earlier!  however for a child who is accelerated an online university ( college)  degree is a wonderful solution to otherwise potentially wasted years. If you do accelerate them then they will need some stimulus. They will want to learn. At least this way you can choose the pace ( full time part time) and they can delve into a subject they have a passion for instead of wasting years in school learning nothing. It is possible to aim for acceleration first and then add in depth as a teenager once the basics of education are completed.
I think the reality of most homeschooling parents is somewhat different to the experiences of these families. You would need to be very organized and quite strong to continually complete 2 years per grade or more. In my house with my children we would get side tracked with depth studies far too often! That is what we enjoy! 

[momtobaby]

Hello everyone,

Its been quite a long time since I have written to the forum. However, this topic seemed pretty interesting as I was having this discussion with my hubby the other day.
Anyway, getting to the point......we have thought a lot about whether to homeschool our little girl or not. My husband brought about a great point in regards to this (He is the director of a well known company and has 2 masters in Engineering and MBA from UCLA)....he said " At the end of the day the most important thing is to know how to deal with people....these days people skills are above anything else. Well, we do need a good academic foundation and that can be obtained by home schooling. However, to attain PR skills, leadership quality and to know how to work as a team you will need to put her in a school." He feels that she will miss out on a lot things like making lifelong friends, teamwork, group activities which are all important especially once you get into workforce. Academic smartness is one thing but to be able to succeed in your chosen field you do need people skills and that can be gained only through experience. Don't get me wrong, I still think homeschooling is such a wonderful thing but if we could have a little bit of both that will be even better.

So we have decided that she will go to a school ......but we will still do afterhour school at home. If the Swann family took only 2 hours of the day to do school work then we can easily do 2 hours after school.

Well, I am just putting forward our thoughts out there so please feel free to point out if I am missing out on some points or if I have got it completely wrong. Would love to hear from all the moms out there on how they feel about sending their kids to school or are planning to homeschool their little ones.

Thanks

[Tamsyn]

Here's my thoughts on social experiences:  My husband had an "aha" moment he shared with me. Homeschoolers are not socially backward, he never thought they were. But there was something about them that he couldn't put his finger on. Now that he has joined the ranks for a few years, he knows what it is. Homeschoolers come from a different culture. We have the same accent, we are familiar with a lot of the same media, and we wear the same clothes, live in the same community, etc, so it's hard to see that for what it is. The culture of the homeschooling family is different than the family who sends their children to public schools. A foreign exchange student has a different outlook on the world than the natives, but that doesn't make them weird or socially backward, just different. That's all.  As a homeschool graduate that never went to public school, I can attest that I had a lot of experiences to socialize with other people.  If that's important to you, it's not hard to find those opportunities.  Church, community music productions, gymnastics, boy scouts, and 4-H are examples of what has worked for my family.

My husband and I have been talking a lot about this as I have told him of my plans for our kids.  I do want to say that the reason I'm going for acceleration is not because I want to push my kids into college as soon as possible, as much as I see a need for our family to raise the academic bar.  Up to now I have required very little "deliberate practice", and I think that this is a skill my kids need to have.

My husband is concerned about the specific timeline I have come up with though.  He said I should focus our learning time not on grade level, as much as learning the next step, and progressing a little every day.  I agree.  I have been looking in to what other gifted or accelerated homeschools are doing, and very few go through a specific workbook.  Little kids are not ready for all of the busy work, and while children do need repetition, much of it is designed to help the PARENTS feel like their children are progressing, as opposed to the kids.  So, I'm planning on using curriculums and textbooks to help me teach, but have a principle based education as much as possible.

To illustrate what I mean, I have purchased "Comprehensive Curriculum of basic skills from Sam's Club. 
(http://www.amazon.com/Comprehensive-Curriculum-Basic-Skills-Grade/dp/1609963296/ref=pd_sim_b_4). 

I'm also looking through "What your 1st Grader Needs to Know"  (http://www.amazon.com/What-Your-First-Grader-Needs/dp/0385319878/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351718721&sr=1-1&keywords=what+your+first+grader+needs+to+know).

I haven't really studied what my kids should learn in each grade until now, so I was surprised at how basic this stuff is.  Yes, my 5 year old knows his colors and his ABCs, thank you.  But oops!  I haven't taught him how to tell time or count with money yet.  He has been memorizing his times tables lately, but here is a basic hole that I would have missed if I wasn't watching what he should know in each grade.  Why should I wait until next fall to spend a whole semester on 1st grade material if all I need to do is cover some simple facts and call it good?  I didn't realize where my son was academically, but we could easily be ready for 2nd grade stuff by January, and 3rd grade stuff shortly after.  I just have a few books for reference as a "check-list".

I'm also gathering that it is a lot easier to accelerate the early grades then it is the high school material.  The Hardings try to get into Algebra by 8 or 9, and are college ready at 12.  Robert Levy's son David did 4 early Saxon books in one year, but slowed down for Algebra as well.  My take-away lesson is that perhaps it's better to "accelerate" elementary and middle school, and then do the "depth" for high school material.  This is my new approach.

By the way, here are a few resources I found along the way  (each links to a favorite page I found, but there's a lot more on each):

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/asynchrony.htm

http://www.happychild.org.uk/acc/tpr/mne/0011gram.htm  (this one has a lot of fun tricks for teaching different rules and such).

We are also doing the games and flash cards ($.99!) from http://www.multiplication.com/.  My son is highly motivated to memorize them, because when he passes them off, we're going to get "Times Attack", which he REALLY wants.  I played through the free version, and I think it has a good balance between fun computer game and drill.  It forces fast recall, which I like.    http://www.bigbrainz.com

[seastar]

Once again, I feel I am learning so much on this forum!

Thank you to those of you who posted regarding accelerating through afterschooling, it is encouraging to hear success stories.

Just to clarify - My interest in acceleration though afterschooling is not to rush my kids through their childhood and get into the world of work before their time - far from it, I feel such bittersweet emotions when I see them growing up! I simply want to foster their natural desire to learn about the world and for them to feel enthusiasm for their studies.

Earlier this week, I met with a friend who is very disappointed with her son's education. While they did not do EL, he has been assessed as gifted. He is now 7 years old, completely bored in school and it is a constant worry to his parents. Having met my children, her exact words were "Good luck with school - you're in for a tough time!", said with exasperation.

While I loved my early school years and was quite successful academically, I underachieved in a major way once I moved to secondary school (high school). I have been thinking about this a lot since I read 'Mindset' - I feel I had a fixed mindset approach to my education and, after years of everything coming easily, I opted out of anything I found challenging.

So, for these reasons, I am trying to make a general plan of how to ensure I keep the burning desire to discover the world alive in my kids. I want them to think and learn about things that challenge them on a daily basis. Given the potential they have shown so far, I feel I will need to afterschool meet this goal. And I see the possibility of correspondence undergraduate study as an extension of this.

Right now, we school everyday, focusing primarily on reading and maths. I hope to continue to do at least one hour of afterschooling everyday. However, I'm not sure how this will work out when I go back to work next year following my maternity leave.

[sonya_post]

My reason for accelerating certain things is not to send them off to the job market either. Nor do I want them in early college. I think 16 is a fine age to start attending college. Partly because most home schooled kids are ready (not all) , but also because I am not a fan of youth culture. We encourage children to remain children entirely too long. Teenage rebellion is something that we have created not something that is necessary. I don't wish to abnormally prolong childhood as much as I don't wish to shorten it.

Why would I accelerate? Well we did with my 1st because he needed it. There was no way to go at the same pace as the rest of his peers - even those homeschooling. He would have lost his mind and gotten lazy. What acceleration provided him was a chance to develop skills and explore his interests. Because we'd finished HS Math and Science he was free one semester to take 4 art classes. He was bent on attending an art school and go into graphic design. After one semester he realized he didn't want to be stuck in an office working with people on projects. He likes art but doesn't want to have to make a living at it. That saved us a lot of time and money. It was because he was taking 4 classes at once that he realized he hated it. If he had been taking only one - he wouldn't have figured out he didn't want to do it all day until he was enrolled in Art School.

But the thing I've been really thinking about is the Imafidon children and the scholarships to attend good universities in GB and the US. If you accelerate and finish your core material by 11- 12 you have 4 -6 years to develop your interests or figure out what you are interested in doing. Do you like math? Now is the time to really indulge your passion. There are competitions, side tracks, all sorts of avenues you can take this all the while developing a reason for a college to give you a scholarship. The scholarship isn't going to a 12 year old with a 17 on the ACT. But if that child waited a few more years that child would have made it to MIT. And a little more maturity would have meant that the child could attend without parents.  Is your passion music? Conservatories are HARD to get into. What if you took that 4 - 6 years and spent it all on music? Your child is never going to have another time in his/her life to indulge their passions without having to worry about other duties and responsibilities. And it is this time that they can work hard so that the great schools are going to take them and offer them a free ride. We kind of did this but it wasn't planned. The result will be a whole lot different when we add parental planning to the mix.

[TeachingMyToddlers]

I don't really forsee myself sending my kids to college early. It's possible though, I guess, if the road naturally takes them there? I think I would rather lean toward finding a very high caliber gifted and talented high school or even groom them for an ivy league prep boarding school on the east coast or overseas, if that was their desire. If they want to go to college at 16 or whatever age, so be it, but I don't think I will push it. I would rather see them pursue their passion if they have time to do so before college, and I would like to them to test the waters of becoming entrepreneurs during a time that it is safe for them to fail (before they have to support themselves or a family). 

Ideally though, I would like to find an extremely high quality school that supports them very well and that they enjoy. Until then, I will probably after school, unless I decide to home school during the early years for one reason or another, but I don't expect to right now. I reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow though.

[momtobaby]

Its nice to listen to all your comments on this subject. Like you guys mentioned the whole idea of early education/accelerating is not to get our kids early into the workforce nor to send them off to college earlier. However, some kids need more stimulation.....even more than they receive at school and its important to provide them that. It might well pave the way to getting their degrees earlier but again at the end of the day accelerating a child with the goal of getting them into college or workforce earlier is probably not the right path. I strongly believe that depth of knowledge is very important in education.

As for teenage rebellion, a lot of research done in this area and they all have proved that the teenage brain is responsible for a lot of their craziness. This is one of the article I came across :

According to report published on website www.telegraph.co.uk, researchers at the National Institute of Mental Health in Maryland (US) have found that 'brain pruning' may better explain why adolescents act the way they do.

The study tracked the brain development of 400 children every two years and found that about 1 percent of the brain's grey matter was lost every year right into their early 20s. This one percent accounted for the unused neural matter that was overproduced during the child's growing years.

The 'pruning' begins with the areas of the brain responsible for the more basic and motor functions, moves on to the language and spatial regions of the brain and finally the area of the brain responsible for decision-making and impulse control. It is the pruning of the last area that could explain why many teenagers exhibit moodiness, short tempers and indulge in what may be described as bizarre behaviour.

As white matter gradually replaces the lost grey matter, neural connections stabilise and behaviour begins to stabilise as well. The research suggests that while this pruning encourages learning in children, it could also be the reason for increased risk-taking behaviour.

Teenage Brain Development
 
In adults, various parts of the brain work together to evaluate choices, make decisions and act accordingly in each situation. The teenage brain doesn't appear to work like this. For comparison's sake, think of the teenage brain as an entertainment center that hasn't been fully hooked up. There are loose wires, so that the speaker system isn't working with the DVD player, which in turn hasn't been formatted to work with the television yet. And to top it all off, the remote control hasn't even arrived!

The brain's remote control is the prefrontal cortex, a section of the brain that weighs outcomes, forms judgments and controls impulses and emotions. This section of the brain also helps people understand one another. If you were to walk into a sports bar full of Lakers fans wearing a Celtics jersey, your prefrontal cortex would immediately begin firing in warning; those teams are bitter enemies, and it might serve you to change your behavior (and your clothes). The prefrontal cortex communicates with the other sections of the brain through connections called synapses. These are like the wires of the entertainment system.

What scientists have found is that teenagers experience a wealth of growth in synapses during adolescence. But if you've ever hooked up an entertainment center, you know that more wires means more problems. You tend to keep the components you use the most, while getting rid of something superfluous, like an out-of-date laserdisc player. The brain works the same way, because it starts pruning away the synapses that it doesn't need in order to make the remaining ones much more efficient in communicating. In teenagers, it seems that this process starts in the back of the brain and moves forward, so that the prefrontal cortex, that vital center of control, is the last to be trimmed. As the connections are trimmed down, an insulating substance called myelin coats the synapses to protect them.

As such, the prefrontal cortex is a little immature in teenagers as compared to adults; it may not fully develop until your mid-20s [source: Kotulak]. And if you don't have a remote control to call the shots in the brain, using the other brain structures can become more difficult. Imaging studies have shown that most of the mental energy that teenagers use in making decisions is located in the back of the brain, whereas adults do most of their processing in the frontal lobe [source: Wallis]. When teenagers do use the frontal lobe, it seems they overdo it, calling upon much more of the brain to get the job done than adults would [source: Powell]. And because adults have already refined those communicating synapses, they can make decisions more quickly.

Adult brains are also better wired to notice errors in decision-making. While adults performed tasks that required the quick response of pushing buttons, their brains sent out a signal when a hasty mistake was made. Before 80 milliseconds had passed, adult brains had noticed the blunder, but teenage brains didn't notice any slip-up [source: Monastersky].

An area of the teenager's brain that is fairly well-developed early on, though, is the nucleus accumbens, or the area of the brain that seeks pleasure and reward. In imaging studies that compared brain activity when the subject received a small, medium or large reward, teenagers exhibited exaggerated responses to medium and large rewards compared to children and adults [source: Powell]. When presented with a small reward, the teenagers' brains hardly fired at all in comparison to adults and children.

So what does it mean to have an undeveloped prefrontal cortex in conjunction with a strong desire for reward? As it happens, this combination could explain a lot of stereotypical teenage behavior

[Tamsyn]

Exactly, Sonya.  I love the way you put it.

[sonya_post]

On teen rebellion:


In Scientific American Robert Epstein weighs in on the debate that teen rebellion is caused by brain chemistry issues among teens (a widely held view). He explains,

It's not only in newspaper headlines--it's even on magazine covers. TIME, U.S. News & World Report and even Scientific American Mind have all run cover stories proclaiming that an incompletely developed brain accounts for the emotional problems and irresponsible behavior of teenagers....

As you will see, a careful look at relevant data shows that the teen brain we read about in the headlines--the immature brain that supposedly causes teen problems--is nothing less than a myth...

  But, he then cites some of the literature that address the questions at hand:

But are such problems truly inevitable? If the turmoil-generating "teen brain" were a universal developmental phenomenon, we would presumably find turmoil of this kind around the world. Do we? In 1991 anthropologist Alice Schlegel of the University of Arizona and psychologist Herbert Barry III of the University of Pittsburgh reviewed research on teens in 186 preindustrial societies. Among the important conclusions they drew about these societies: about 60 percent had no word for "adolescence," teens spent almost all their time with adults, teens showed almost no signs of psychopathology, and antisocial behavior in young males was completely absent in more than half these cultures and extremely mild in cultures in which it did occur.

Even more significant, a series of long-term studies set in motion in the 1980s by anthropologists Beatrice Whiting and John Whiting of Harvard University suggests that teen trouble begins to appear in other cultures soon after the introduction of certain Western influences, especially Western-style schooling, television programs and movies. Delinquency was not an issue among the Inuit people of Victoria Island, Canada, for example, until TV arrived in 1980. By 1988 the Inuit had created their first permanent police station to try to cope with the new problem.

Consistent with these modern observations, many historians note that through most of recorded human history the teen years were a relatively peaceful time of transition to adulthood. Teens were not trying to break away from adults; rather they were learning to become adults. Some historians, such as Hugh Cunningham of the University of Kent in England and Marc Kleijwegt of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, author of Ancient Youth: The Ambiguity of Youth and the Absence of Adolescence in Greco-Roman Society (J. C. Gieben, 1991), suggest that the tumultuous period we call adolescence is a very recent phenomenon--not much more than a century old.

[nee1]

My reason for accelerating certain things is not to send them off to the job market either. Nor do I want them in early college. I think 16 is a fine age to start attending college. Partly because most home schooled kids are ready (not all) , but also because I am not a fan of youth culture. We encourage children to remain children entirely too long. Teenage rebellion is something that we have created not something that is necessary. I don't wish to abnormally prolong childhood as much as I don't wish to shorten it.

Sonya, I’m with you on the extension of childhood. I read some interesting stuff from one of John Gatto’s books ‘Weapons of Mass Instruction’. John was a one-time New York Teacher of the Year, who later left the school system because of disillusionment with how it worked. He devotes an entire subsection to ‘The Artificial Extension of Childhood’ in his book.  On page 39, he says:


``The same young people we confine to classrooms these days once cleared this continent when it was a wilderness, built roads, canals, cities; whipped the greatest military power of earth not once but twice, sold ice to faraway India before refrigeration, and produced so many miracles - from the six-shooter to the steamboat to manned flight - that America spread glimmerings of what open-source creativity could do all around the planet.

In those days Americans weren't burdened by a concept of the phony stage of life called `adolescence;’ or any other artificial extension of childhood. About the age of seven you added value to the world around you, or you were a parasite. Like all sane people, so-called kids wanted to grow up as soon as possible - that's why old photos show boys and girls looking like men and women. All that takes is carrying your share of the load, and a few  open-source adventures and presto! You are grown up. In Ben Franklin's day when you were ready to take your turn, no pseudo-sciences out of Germany stood in your way.

The pre-Civil War American economy was dominated by independent livelihoods, and even after the war, for another fifty years or so, young men (who would be called "boys" today) like Andrew Canegie could start life as an elementary school dropout at the age of seven, and be partners in business with the president of the Pennsylvania Railroad at age 20. Are similar lives being fashioned today? Of course they are, but it isn't considered wise to talk about it openly anymore. Think of Shawn Fanning with his millions from starting Napster at age 18, and Fanning is far from alone - it's just that those lucky ones allowed to do it are far more discreet in our time.

An earlier America celebrated accomplishment and shrewdness from any source. Kids weren't locked away to provide employment for millions. America had room for anyone with energy, brass, and ideas. Foreign visitors like Tocqueville and DuPont de Nemours were constantly being dazzled by the high energy released in a society reaching for revolutionary egalitarianism, one which mixed all ages together, took risks, and discarded the rigid categories of European tradition.’ QUOTE ENDS.

He goes on and on, and on page 136, he says:

``When, as happens with some frequency, I'm asked by parents for a single suggestion for changing the relationship between them and their kids for the better, I don't hesitate to recommend this:
Don't think of them as kids. Childhood exists, but it's over long  before we allow it to be. I'd start to worry if my kid were noticeably  childish past the age of seven and if by twelve you aren't dealing with young men and women anxious to take their turn, disgusted with training wheels on anything, able to walkabout London, do hundred mile bike trips, and add enough value to the  neighborhood that they have an independent income; if you don't see this, you're doing something seriously wrong.

Even at seven don't edit the truth out of things. If the family has an income kids need to know to the penny what it is and how it's spent. Assume they are human beings with the same basic nature and aptitudes that you have; what you have superior in terms of experience and mature understanding should be exchanged for their natural resilience, quick intelligence, imagination, fresh insight, and eagerness to become self-directing.

Don't buy into the calculated illusion of extended childhood. It's a great secret key to power - power for your kids if you turn the tables on their handlers. And adolescence is a total fraud, a pure concoction of social engineers barely a century old. It's a paradox, constantly threatening to solve itself as the young beat against the school jail in which we've confined them. Sometimes as I read obituaries - far and away the most valuable department in a good newspaper-I stumble across a new piece of evidence that what I've told you is true.’’ QUOTE ENDS.

I’ve often pondered about the above suggestion to parents for changing the relationship with their kids, and it makes absolute sense. I asked my husband ‘do you think the artificial extension of childhood is what causes poor parent-child relationship and teenage rebellion?’ Both of us thought it contributed to the problem immensely, because while the child wants to grow up, the parents want the child’s childhood extended, and this leads to a lot of friction. 

So when scientists say that brain changes is what makes teenagers crazy, maybe they should go to cultures that do not have concepts like ` adolescence’ and do their research there. That will give them better comparative data, rather than simply making claims based on a particular culture. It is just like the whole myth of ``potty training readiness’’, they claim kids do not have bladder control at early ages, but how about going to China, India, and Africa, to find out how their kids manage to have bladder control at very early ages. As with anything research, I read,  but use my critical mind to think about what I’ve read. Not all research is true, simply that is published does not make it true.

All in all, I’ve decided not to artificially extend my kids’ childhoods. I believe a good relationship with them (as John Gatto recommends) will result from my allowing them to grow up, under my loving guidance, of course.

I reflected on the Harding family, and I doubt very much their kids had teenage rebellion. They were too busy planning the next big thing they wanted to do with their lives, where would they get the time to rebel? The parents were busy reinforcing their dreams, encouraging them to grow up, and become whatever they wanted to be. One of the daughters, Rossanah, wrote:

``It’s amazing how God plants a seed in our hearts, and it grows into a dream and you just know without a doubt it is what you are meant to do. That’s how it was for me in choosing to be an architect. I was blessed at an early age to know what I wanted to do with my life. And I was blessed with parents who encouraged me to pursue it and showed me that it was not that far from my reach. For most parents out there, when their 8 year old says to them, “I want to be an astronaut [insert profession here] when I grow up” they smile at their kid and say “Oh that’s nice” and go about their day. My dad on the other hand, would take it to heart. He would sign them up for the next space camp and introduce them to a friend of a friend who cleans rockets. Something that still resonates with me is the way my dad always encouraged us to set our goals and aim as high as we could. Don’t just settle for the middle. He would say “Shoot for the stars, and maybe you’ll land on the moon” meaning, If you aim as high as you can and don’t make it there, you still end up somewhere pretty amazing. But, if you set your sights too low, you may never reach your full potential. Even to this day, this mindset still drives me. Someday I want to open my own architectural firm with my husband and maybe friends from college. Why be a draftsperson when you can be your own boss and make your own designs a reality!

Mom and dad did not regarded age as an excuse for immaturity. They gave us responsibilities to help us grow and taught us to reason like adults. By treating us like adults – and by this I mean with expectation that were capable of a higher level of accountability – we often rose to the occasion and surpassed what would be considered the “norm” for our age. I think in many ways, this prepared us for real world decision making and gave us the confidence to participate with students several years our senior. People always say to my sisters and I that we are so mature for our age. I think this all goes back to building those invaluable skills of communication and measuring consequences. Parents are ultimately raising adults, independent human beings that are capable of living and being a light in this world. Favorite dad quote: “If you can’t think of anything nice to say, then don’t say anything at all.”

I remember the moment I realized that I wanted to be an architect. Since early childhood, I paid attention to my surroundings and was much more interested in the way the light fell through the window than staring at a chalkboard. But even so, I had an appreciation for math in terms of its physical nature. The point where art and science collide seemed a perfect fit for me. There was something about the notion of creating something from nothing – or rather creating something from a single an idea. It was so exciting to me the possibility that something in my minds’ eye could become a reality.

In the early 2000’s when the housing market was booming, my dad found it a hobby to check out model homes of new housing developments in central California. I would tag along and be amazed at the size and scale of the spaces. As we were leaving the homes, I remember asking my mom, “Who is the person who decides where the rooms go?” She answered “Well, that would be an architect”. That was it. When I discovered that that was an actual job – getting to make beautiful drawings for a living and envision spaces that get built into realities – I know
that was my calling. I must have been 10 years old at the time….’’ QUOTE ENDS.

[Mandabplus3]

I herby promise to take my children's "when I grow up I want to be a....." far more seriously.
What a slap in the face!  Two of my three kids know in detail what they want to be when they grow up. One even has two separate careers mapped out!  Their choices are based on their skills, strengths and enjoyment. What more could I want for my kids than a solid goal to aim towards during those" lost" teenage years. Plus a head start in their chosen career studies!
Now I need to guide and support my oldest into narrowing down her options....there was a time she wanted to be a marine micro biologist.....maybe I should have run with that one at the time! 

[nee1]

I agree, Mandab. Remember Zohaib and Wajib Ahmed, those mathy Asian-Brit boys? They wanted to be actuaries (and Zoihaib was just 8 years of age). The father felt that would be a good choice of profession for them as it requires lots of math (which the boys are very good at). In the Channel 4 documentary, he took them to an actuary firm so they could see the sort of work actuaries do, and get them excited about their future profession. It was so cute seeing 2 small boys in business suits, on their way to actuary firm, shaking hands with staff at the firm, working with spreadsheets, etc. I learnt a lot from what their dad did. When the actuary staff who was taking them on the tour of the firm asked ``which of you will be a better actuary'', both boys replied ``ME''. So funny.

Well, I don't see those kids wasting their teenage years in rebellion and what-not. They may change their minds later on about becoming actuaries, but a plan on what to be in future and then working towards it is better than none at all. Further, it helps to keep young minds occupied.

Here is a link to watch the Channel 4 documentary. The boys are the 2 Asian kids with big textbooks. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/child-genius. And on that page (on the left hand side), there is also a link to a video interview with their parents.

[Kimba15]

This is what I love about this forum. We start a thread on Accelration vs depth and we all come to the conclusion that our children must find their purpose early. Miss S looooooooooooooves science so I feed that with science dvds,toys and such and such. She still does not like actual math but will watch a math dvd. My other child loves music and languages so I feed that. I have no idea where it will lead them but when I became a parent I promised myself that whatever they wanted to do with their life no matter how I felt about it I would support them 100%. 

[momtobaby]

I totally agree with you guys on not artificially extending the kids childhood.....I come from a traditional Asian background and was born and brought up back in my homeland. We get potty trained by the time we turn 6 months and by 8 months we are totally out of nappies. There is not even a word in our language for the term "Teenager". However, atleast from where I come from wacking and spanking a child is also a part of the culture and out of the fear a lot of the times kids tend to listen to their parents and try to stay away from trouble. Does that make spanking or wacking a child an ok behaviour? I am sorry for putting it so bluntly out there but this is the truth. Again I am talking from what I have seen and the culture that we come from.

The so called teenagers wouldn't dare say a word back to their parents as they fear the repercussions. However, we still see irrational behaviour from teenagers and I have seen it first hand in school and college.  Westernisation has introduced a lot of good and bad into every culture and I think it will be very hard to take the society back to the good old days. We have to accept the fact that kids are going to be exposed to this culture one time or the other and our job as a parent is to guide them and help them choose the good elements.

I am not saying that we should escuse rash behaviour from our teenage kids saying that its their brains but instead we must see which is the best way to reach to them during the teenage years. Adult reasoning and not rewarding might not work due to the brain wiring at that time but some other strategies might.

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