Stanford Binet IQ test to get into kindergarten

[DrPrimo]

Hello all:
The doc here    
was wondering if anyone has had experience with the Stanfort binet iq test to get into kindergarten, or the gesell kindergarten rediness test.
here in LA, most private schools give these tests to see if your child is 'right' for the school.  i was wondering what you fabulous parents out there feel about this and if in other countries you and your child have had to go through this at all? 

i originally thought of practicing for this, but this is what my friend told me:

her daughter took several practice tests with a specialist (lots of $$).  anyway, what they didn't tell her was that it is like taking any other kind of standardized test:  every time you take it your score is kept... until high school!  so even though her child (after a few times) had aced it, every try was recorded and followed her around.  it even effected where she got into high school. 
the reason i'm telling you is that if you think its a good idea to practice, don't practice officially as it will hurt you in the end.  but  regardless of that, i still want my little one to be prepared no matter what they throw at her:  so my question is:  how on earth can you prepare and what can you practice for?  anyone have any ideas??
thanks!
the doc 

[DadDude]

I'd be curious to learn if anybody here has a child going to a kindergarten or preschool that requires an IQ test.

[nhockaday]

I honestly can't fathom a school giving a test to a 5 year old and basing their entrance upon it. A test to see if their IQ is right for school? Are you serious? This is kindergarten. So what happens if the child doesn't score high? They go to kindergarten when they are 7? And paying for a 5 year old to "practice" for it? This isn't the SATs. I don't know whether to find it laughable or insane.

[DrPrimo]

Well, believe it. Most private schools here in los Angeles do give one or the other. So if you want to go to these schools then you have to take it. Some public schools require it as well to determine if a child should be in the gifted program, but that is more a readiness test which follows them until 8th grade. Meaning even if your child flunks every gifted class they are never kicked out of the gifted program if they had a good scores on their kindergarten test. So it's important. All the moms out there in the USA, do check to see what test you school/district uses to assess participation in the gifted program.
So, does anyone out there know about these tests?
Thanks!
The doc  

[DadDude]

I don't know anything about them.  I guess the test would differ from school to school, and if I were in your shoes (glad I'm not) I would ask for information from the schools you're interested in, then read about the specific tests they use (if they give you that information).  I've heard of such tests in New York City and elsewhere, even for preschoolers.  Maybe it's a big city slicker kind of thing. 

I don't think that requiring an IQ test for admission to a demanding "academic" program is crazy, assuming that they've actually discovered that high-IQ kids are capable of and benefit from a certain kind of training that lower-IQ kids can't absorb or benefit from.  If that's true, it seems fine to me.  Still, not adjusting the placement after Kindergarten does seem hard to justify.  On the other hand, maybe even that is not so crazy.  I myself was a middling elementary school student, not very motivated, then in the fifth grade they did some intelligence test and decided I was "gifted."  So I was then put into a gifted class for half a day one day a week, as I recall, which did not significantly help me as far as I remember; if I remember right, it was mostly stupid logic puzzles and "brain builder"-type stuff, and not any substantial learning at all.  Moreover, I didn't actually do better after that in any subject.  But I guess it did help me to know that I was "gifted," on the view of the System.  Might have made me a little more ambitious, in the long term.  And actually I was so unmotivated at certain times in my school career that I was not promoted to the "honors" class in a subject, in some years.  That didn't kill me but I did find the work much too easy and it gave me an appreciation for the honors classes.

After all this, I reflect pleasantly on the fact that we'll be homeschooling and will sidestep all such problems.

[ShenLi]

Bronson and Merryman published a book called "Nurture Shock" which talks about IQ tests to determine gifted kids in kindergarten.  To sum it up, this is what they said:

"Millions of kids are competing for seats in gifted programs and private schools.  Admissions officers say it’s an art: new science says they’re wrong, 73% of the time."

According to the research, there is currently no accurate way to predict gifted kids at that age.  Many of the children who display "giftedness" at that age often end up mediocre later in life and many other truly gifted kids are just late bloomers.  Experts say that IQ tests aren't accurate until a child is at least 12 years old.

You can read more about it here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/nyregion/25bigcity.html?_r=1

[DrPrimo]

yes!  i read the book as well... and i totally agree, but i'm stuck in a system that relies heavily on these tests...
it is HORRIBLE!  but what can i do as i'm not qualified (or have the time) to homeschool.  so i say if they are going to play that game, fine.  but let me be prepared as possible to get my child the best education i can.
that's why i brought up the topic.  anyone know what the test is all about??
thanks for participating in this forum!
the doc

[marimari]

DrPrimo,

I live in Brazil and here there isn´t this kind of IQ test, the child just need to be old enough to get in kindergarden, and follows normally it as the other classmates, but here there is a test which starts in high school specifically in 1st year after the 8th grade, and the students do it until the 3rd year, they get a mark every year that will sum in the end of 3rd year. Using this mark, the students can get in an university according to the pontuation acquired, they have the oportunity of a better university. The name of this test used here is: ENEM.

[DrPrimo]

There are tests foe that time here as well.  In the USA, we have what is called gifted programs which are accelerated classes and more advanced. Looks good to universities if you take them. Anyway one of the ways to see if your child qualifies is this iq test. It is very irritating because if you get a person who doesn,t do a good job giving the test (it's one on one) then you are doomed. Uggg!!!

[DadDude]

Bronson and Merryman published a book called "Nurture Shock" which talks about IQ tests to determine gifted kids in kindergarten.  To sum it up, this is what they said:

"Millions of kids are competing for seats in gifted programs and private schools.  Admissions officers say it’s an art: new science says they’re wrong, 73% of the time."

Very interesting!  I wonder what makes "new science" say they're "wrong."

I'll have to look up that book.

[DrPrimo]

I highly recommend that book. So much great info and not just about tests!  Simply gacinating. Anyone who lives in the US has to read it. Buy on amazon as it's cheap!
Let me know what you think!
The doc

[PY]

mmm...Here in this state where I live in United States, there are some private schools that make your child to take some IQ test to see if they are ready to get in the program.My nice was 4 years old when her mom took her to this school but she couldn't pass the test(even if she knew how to read)they said she was not ready yet for their pre school program because she needed to improve her social skills (inmature).
I came from a South America country where you have to take test in private schools  and also on public schools to be able to get in. When I was 5 years old they didn't accept me in this private school  kindergarten program because in the test I was playing instead of sitting and answering questions!
So I don't know, I had to go to a public school because I didn't have any other chance, also for the high school program one Public school didn't take me because I didn't pass the IQ Test.
But the funiest thing is I scored in the first tenth place in the test for one of the most prestigious university in  my town (where you need to pass three different test and bit hundreds of people)  and I got the highest grade in my thesis presentation from all my class on my graduation day.

I don't know, it is a confusing topic. But reality is THERE ARE IQ TEST FOR CHILDREN TO GET IN SCHOOLS.

[ShenLi]

PY - you're an excellent example of why IQ tests don't work for children.  The tests are supposed to identify children with academic potential but they don't work.

DadDude - it's got to do with brain development - it isn't linear, therefore a test in kindergarten cannot predict future intelligence.  If thickness of the cerebral cortex is supposed to determine intelligence then a child doesn't really reach full thickness until 11 or 12 years old - that's also the time when they say IQ tests become more reliable.  They found that some children who were labeled as intelligent later on in life actually had much thinner cortices in the early years.  These children were found to be below average in kindergarten, yet they ended up being smarter than the "gifted" kindergarteners.  Therefore a child who aces these IQ tests in kindergarten does not necessarily turn out to be gifted later in life.  While a child that fails these IQ tests can still be gifted later on.  Where then is the accuracy of these IQ tests for finding the "smart" kids?

[DrPrimo]

you are so right shenLi!  the problem is that the test you take in kindergarten, it follows you around until you are in HS here in the US so if something doesn't go well, or you have a lousy test administrator, or your child is sick and this is the only day you can take it, or something happened at home with the dog, forget it!  and sometimes you can't avoid taking it.  however, if you can, i would avoid it as long as possible OR try to find out what they test and practice.  in my opinion, if i have to play this stupid game, then 2 can play at that game and i'm going to prepare my child as best i can.  right?
the doc

[ariel]

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=244059

here's one site I found, some people provide their insite.  the user posting the question paid 5 bucks so I am assuming the answers might have some worth.

here another that talks about useful books:  http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,895567,00.html

I skimmed...you might already know this information. 

I think in general, why not search for IQ tests in a library or online (from a worthy site) and try to get your baby to master them. 

We are thinking about moving to CA in a year....just hearing all of this is scaring me!

Good luck...let us know how it goes. 

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