Swann Family = 10 Children with MA at age 16! Book Review & Discussion Thread

[FomerlyMrsObedih_Now_BatmansMama]

Absolutely second that Nee1, I am in the middle of that video on his website even though its like 1.30am - fascinating! Would love to know more from those who've more experience with RC.

[linzy]

I'd love to share more, we've found it to be a really great solution for my family. I first heard about it from my mother in law who had purchased it years ago for one of my husbands younger siblings. She has since lost the disks, but has the course of study and other materials printed out. The nice thing about this curriculum is it helps children to become their own teacher, and by skipping all those early Saxon books you immediately advance in your math. I will lay out the Robinson method a little bit, any particular questions, let me know. The funny thing is I learned about the method years ago and started implementing it prior to moving to Oregon and now the Robinson's live in the next town over. In addition to his education principles he is an advocate of eliminating sugar from children's diets, eliminating TV/computers and not allowing calculators until calculus (or after I don't remember). We do not really follow those guidelines, except for not allowing calculators which I see as a major crutch for children today.

So the first step in their approach is really easy for early learning:
Essentially it is phonics driven reading instruction and rote memorization of math facts. They recommend memorizing all facts up through 12's. For my younger son we are combining this with RightStart, but you know how EL families are, never happy with simplicity.

There is a program called Sterling math facts that is very popular among the RC folks (it costs about 10$). What is it is a flash card program on the computer where you can choose individual facts, fact families or even algebra type problems where one of the addenends or multipliers are missing and they flash the card and give you a set amount of time to answer (you can choose the time, we do 8 seconds at this point but my 3 year old does 45). Then you can choose what percentage correct you want (we choose 100%). You also can change the total number of problems to see, how many of your "problem" cards are incorporated, weather to hear the problems read aloud as they are shown and a bunch of other options. At the end of each session they show you a pie chart of how you did, a list of the problems missed and the number of times each was missed and a graph showing this session in relation to past sessions so you can see your improvement.

Once the facts are memorized then he recommends starting at Saxon 5/4, 2 hours (or one lesson). I can attest that only the math facts are needed prior to beginning and in fact they do teach even those. The reason he recommends students know the facts well before start is it makes it so much easier, instead of learning new concepts and struggling to calculate the simple addition, subtraction multiplication and division they know those instantly and can focus on the larger concepts. The way they are to do it is by reading the lesson themself and work through the lesson on their own. The great thing about Saxon is each problem has a reference lesson next to it so if they struggle they go back to the referenced lesson and review the sample problem to help them solve it. It teaches self sufficiency. It is a hard lesson to learn at first but the real lesson they are learning is how to teach themselves. This is why the Robinson children are successful, they can take a college level physics book and teach the course to themselves and really know it.

Once a child is reading they can start the book list. They recommend reading through the list with 2 hours of reading a day. The book list is available online and most of the books can be found free on project gutenberg. The books include literature, history, biographies and science books. Most families print the books with 2 pages on the front and 2 pages on the back of each sheet of paper and then bind them with duct tape and staple them. We are crazy bibliophiles in my house so quite honestly we buy most of the books. Usually I can find them for pennies on amazon and then I pay the shipping, or shopgoodwill.com. I made my own booklist because the Robinson booklist although it will result in a good education does not have as many modern classics, historical and science books as I want. Also as my son started the book list at age 3 I figured he had time to add in extra books so we used that list combined with the Ambleside online, Sonlight and Greatbooks websites.

For writing he recommends one hour a day. Robinson recommends copywork for young children, to help work on penmanship and also to help them copy great works of literature to internalize the rules of grammar and punctuation. Around age 8 he then has them move to writing an original page of writing daily. The parent then corrects spelling and grammar and the child rewrites it or makes corrections. For my own kids I wanted more directed study so we did spelling workout (which we love), daily language lessons (really good short daily practice) and writing with ease (which we are ambivalent about). When my son finishes writing with ease I think we are going to go into a more formal writing program. We are thinking about the Institute for Excellence in Writing.

So for us a day looks like:

6 year old:
Wake up and look at his laminated chore card (he does the chores and crosses them off himself)
Eat breakfast and maybe watch a science video with dad and brother.
Math: Sterling Math facts (250 problems all operations  up through 12)
One lesson of Saxon, we circle any incorrect and he makes the corrections
Writing: "Daily language lessons" and "writing with ease" (maybe takes 30 minutes max)
Reading: from his current book for 2 hours.
Then he eats lunch
Afternoon is:
Working through his chemistry /physics sets
Playing snap circuits/legos
Using his metal detector outside
Hiking
Soccer practice/swimming
Or just playing

For our 3 year old:
Wake up
Breakfast
Math: Right Start A, Sterling math facts (working on the 0's and +1s), Kumon number book
Writing: Kumon letters book, mazes
Reading: Reading bear, ladybird key words books, ordinary parents guide to teaching reading, readingeggs
Lunch
Nap
Freeplay

It is important to know the Art Robinson is a scientist and had a lab at his house, they also had a large home library and animals. So in the afternoons his children were helping in the lab, caring for animals and reading.

So there you guys go I've written a novel. It's worked well for us. I work out of the house as a doctor so we needed something that my husband or a babysitter could implement with minimal intervention and for us at least it has fit the bill.

[Korrale4kq]

Thank you so much Linzy.

I do have a request, only if possible. Do you have a complete books list? I am in the process of accumulating lists and sorting through them, but if you had one that you could share I would love to see it.

[linzy]

Here is what I have up to "first grade level". I don't think by a long shot this would be considered standard fist grade.  It is titled final reading list template. It has it in the format I like in the right order complied and with some reading levels. The other files are my lists including all the grades, but not in my pretty organized format. The comprehensive reading list is Sonlight, great books and Ambleside. I'll attach some other files in another post.

[linzy]

A few more files, as you can tell I am slightly OCD/Type A.

[linzy]

And a few more.

[Korrale4kq]

Thank you so much. My book lists are a mess and all over the place. I love looking at what others have. I can print them al out and take them to the library with us.

[linzy]

As a word of warning, some of the books are christian based. Sonlight is christian and ambleside is catholic, RC also has some Christian books. Most of the books are non-religious but some are, so if you are concerned about them not aligning with your faith or if you are non-religious it is something to keep in mind, and certainly we haven't reviewed them all. But it is a compilation of all of the books recommended from those sources for each grade.

[Mandabplus3]

Oh wow! Thank you !
So I am watching through the video slowly ( when do we find time for a nearly 2 hour lecture? ) aim at50 minutes so far and have noticed a few interesting ideas but must say mostly this is exactly how I would teach if I home schooled. It is actually exactly how I home school but I have yet to manage to add writing into our schedule 
I do think his overall schedule according to age is a little bit warped. I mean he expects kids to do 5/4 Saxon at age 7 but only expects copy work or half a page of writing at the most at the same age. In fact his writing doesnt start until age 8 before that is all handwriting. That seems a little scewed to me. Handwriting shouldn't take that long!
Anyway I thought I should mention that we do Saxon at the recommended 1 lesson a day ( as after schoolers) some days it takes my daughter 2 hours, somedays she takes ALL DAY! She is such a daydreamer! I have tried to figure out how long a lesson really takes when she is focused so I can determine if I am expecting too much from her but have yet to figure out just how much time she wastes. I refuse to drop the workload just because she is distracted constantly. No rewards for daydreaming and distractions  we can fit in at most 1 hour of reading a day ( again as after schoolers) possibly more as they get older and need less sleep.    I have all the classics on their iPads and they are starting on the ones that interest them. I am wondering if I should put them in some sort of order or just accept the read what you want to for now. What do you think?
Also worth noting, I doubt either of my girls would be happy to read ANY/MANY of those books at all in real print. On the iPad they have the option to choose a font they like and enlarge the print of super easy reading. Also if the print is large ( and she isn't off with the fairies!  > ) my daughter can speed read some of the books. Yes I know that wont teach her as much in terms of grammar and sentence structure but she does seem to pick up the spelling and storyline ( good for history books she other wise doesn't enjoy) Also she can't sustain her speed reading for an entire reading session of 1 hour. It takes her conscious thought to do it still.
We have the everyday classics list of books ( which I love!) and another 50 or more I self selected,  I will add some of these to our collection but not all of them, there is a VERY heavy American history slant to his list.
I will watch the rest of the video as soon as I can, I find it fascinating. Thanks for posting it.

[waterdreamer]

Mandaplus3- where did you find these books on the ipad?

I know what you mean about daydreaming.  After school we do 4 pages of Touchmath 30 mins of Dreambox and 4 pages of Explode the Code. If he is focused he can do it in less thwn and hour. But other times it can take him almost 2 only because he's gone to lalaland. I also refuse to lower the load because he chooses not to focus himself. He is 7 years old and gets no homework from school.

[linzy]

Dr. Robinson talks about how when he started with one of his kids he would sit there all day staring at a math lesson. But eventually they learned that if they just buckled down and got it done they would have the rest of the day to do what they want. It is a learning process definitely. Sometimes it takes my son only an hour and sometimes more than two. If it is truly an ability issue I would consider only doing half a lesson well, rather than 1 whole lesson with maybe a lower quality where they are going to end up needing to do many corrections.

For some people also they adjust the time and try to work up to his recommendations. For us that is silly, my son would be in first grade and is certainly capable of doing 4-5 hours of work.

For, the books online go to: http://users.gobigwest.com/rosegate/RCbooks.html it lists where they are available for free online.

Also of course: http://www.gutenberg.org/ (Project gutenberg)

I used to have my son read the really long books on my nook (like 200-300 pages) when he was 3-early 4's, for just the reason you mentioned. He was intimidated by seeing the huge book and the small font, but as he's gotten older he likes the actual book as it gives him a sense of accomplishment. Also when the actual book is lying around the house the chances are hisgh that when is is bored perusing books he will just pick it up and read it, or see an old favorite and choose it for bedtime reading.

We do often divide reading into an hour for school and an hour before bed, also if the school day is getting long.

[bella]

Gush I am really behind on forum posts . I do have RC and used it with my special need daughter . I love dr Robinson approach , my dream is to get my two little ones to be independent learners so I can spend my time focusing on their hurt sister who needs one on one and it is a full time  work .
I have the CDs , there are 20 include all the books on their list . But like linzy I add from other lists and although my daughter is excellent reader at 6 she insists reading together with mum is more fun  . She will be looking at books all day long , reading short stories but long chapter books are saved for joined reading with mum . I choose history of the world for our history study , wwe and fll , alas for language art , and we love right start starting level c  , and they have the rest of the day for free play and exploration .xxx viv

[nee1]

Mandab,

From what I've gleaned so far on the web, in Robinson Curriculum (RC), you start the kid on the first book on the RC list, and the kid works down that list gradually. Here is a link to the RC list (http://users.gobigwest.com/rosegate/RCbooks.html), and the first book is McGuffey Eclectic Primer. The kid starts with that, reads it for himself, and works down the whole list. I've also found another list here- http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/view/rc/booklevel.htm, which groups the RC  books into ``grade'' levels, so you can use that in place of making the kid work down the original list. And the second list I posted lists the genre of the book, letting me know if the book is a reader, a science text, a history text, a nature appreciation book, etc.

He answers the question of kids reading what interests them during non-school hours here: http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/view/rc/s31p60.htm. See point number 11.

I'm guessing that for very young children (under 4 year olds, maybe), the parents can simply read-aloud based on the RC list, covering one book after the other. For older children, the RC method requires the child reads the books for himself.
From what I've also learnt, there are about 6,000 vocabulary words listed on the RC disc, and these vocabulary words are drawn from the books, and tests are given on the RC discs to ensure the child masters the vocabulary. He also said in the video that he's included words from SAT as well, and since SAT is mostly a vocabulary test, a child that masters the 6,000 words in the disc will have high chances at scoring highly at verbal SAT. This is a list of all the items contained in the RC disc http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/view/rc/s31p45.htm.

And I found this post http://www.home-school-curriculum-advisor.com/Robinson-Curriculum-FAQ.html. This reviewer explains the writing bit under the question ``Is writing an hour a day sufficient to learn the writing skills and grammar they will need?''

Okay, I love this, and I've already started.  I did a read-aloud of the first book today - McGuffey Primer, and I completed it. Tomorrow, I'll move on to the second book on the original list (http://users.gobigwest.com/rosegate/RCbooks.html), and so on. Most of the books are in the public domain, and are free. For example, I found all 6 McGuffey readers free on www.archive.org.  Gutenberg.org and google books should also have free copies of most of the RC books.

Linzy, more questions please. How did you adapt the RC method to very young children? Did you read the books aloud to them as I have done? I'm doing the read aloud from the booklist because the vocabulary in the books are quite rich, and I want the child exposed to that until he can read the books for himself. Second question. He says no computer for children- http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/view/rc/s31p60.htm. Where does that leave EL products that are computer-based? How do you implement this strategy of ``no computer for young kids’’  in your home? Which of the RC  strategies have you adapted, what did you ignore, and what were the results? Looking forward to learning from your experiences.  Thank you.

[linzy]

For very young children, really starting at age 2. We just still focused on those three areas, so each day we make sure we do something from
writing (usually kumon books),

reading (ordinary parents guide to teaching reading, reading eggs, reading bear, ladybird books) Once they can sound out short words they can start with the ecclectic reader. The way we did it is I helped to teach the words at the top of the lesson and then had his read the lesson. We keep doing that lesson until he can read it easily and with inflection. We have a checklist and check off the books as my son reads them. He started with the eclectic reader and then beatrix potter books, some are very easy reading. Of course I had expanded the list so her had lost of other books for practice to get him up to that reading level. I did make my elder son read most of them himself, some aloud to me. If you want to do them as read alouds for the younger children I would look at some like The Bobbsey Twins, Brier Rabbit, you also might consider some of the historical books as they are great for family discussion etc... For young children I would just recommend fleshing out the early part of the list more to get them reading fluently.

And then for math, we also do kumon (starting with the writing numbers books) right start and starting  to memorize math facts with the Sterling math program. It's more the Robinson's format (reading, writing and math) and not so much his materials.

The vocabulary in the books is great and at a much high reading level than most books published today, but as I said I also supplement with modern books that I feel are appropriate for cultural literacy.

We do not follow the no computer/TV rules. We use tv programs like preschool prep, peter weatherall and netflix movies/documentaries/science shows. We use the computer for math facts, Scratch computer programing, you tube videos, readingeggs, readingbear and soft mozart. My kids don't however, watch a lot of other tv or play a lot of video games.

We also don't follow the no sugar guidelines, we do of course try to eat healthy we don't have "snack foods" around the house, but that doesn't stop me from occasionally making a pie, cakes or cookies for my family. We are pretty vigilant about starting each day with milk, multi-vitamins, omega 3/fish oil liquid and vitamin C before breakfast.

[bella]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004UJVZNI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004UJVZNI&linkCode=as2&tag=mommocto-20
free for kindle
xxx

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