Swann Family = 10 Children with MA at age 16! Book Review & Discussion Thread

[seastar]

urthemom.com has a series of lectures on self-teaching free this month: http://www.urthemom.com/Freebie_February.html

Karma MummyRoo. Is there a way of saving these lectures to listen later?

[Jenene]

nee1 I just found that I also get this yahoo group digest about Robinson Curriculum. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RC_A2_Group/
Again, not particularly active.

[nee1]

nee1 I just found that I also get this yahoo group digest about Robinson Curriculum. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RC_A2_Group/
Again, not particularly active.

Thanks Jenene. I joined that group some weeks ago and went through messages in their archives. Problem was, it is mostly a group for marketing the alternative A2 curriculum. I need something tried and tested with solid academic achievements as proofs that it works, and Robinson Curriculum  meets that criteria for me. I didn't learn much about RC on that group, it was mostly a marketing group for A2.

[FomerlyMrsObedih_Now_BatmansMama]

Absolutely loving the URtheMom Homeschooling 101 lectures, and still fully sold on Dr Robinson. Self-teaching particularly rings true for me because of the twin foundations of respect for parental authority AND respect for the independence and innate abilities of the child. You gotta love that combination! And it would result in high achieving people, because well who does anything unless they really want to? And who gets anywhere unless they know how to be humble and work well with others? I want to continue to learn a way of parenting that teaches my child how to relate intelligently with people, starting with me and his immediate family. His attitudes in my home will be the ones he has outside, so I need to learn to give the structure and independence for Douglas to grow into a hardworking, moral young man of his own volition, not because I am hovering over him making him do the right thing. Self-teaching (and this thread! ) is opening me up to yet more reasons why I should not be afraid to set boundaries for my child (Charlotte Mason helped a lot as well).

You gotta love this forum, it gets deep on here sometimes! 

[mybabyian]

I do think it sounds wonderful.  I just have a question.  I haven't read anything on these families or this method beyond this thread.  Maybe someone can answer.  How is it that the child is doing what they want to?  Seems like they are doing the work that the parent is giving them.

And it would result in high achieving people, because well who does anything unless they really want to?

One of the daughters was quoted here to say something similar and it made me wonder.  Thanks!

[Mandabplus3]

I don't think anyone  was saying the children are doing what they want to all the time  The children are doing the work set by their parents ahead of time. Hey are doing it independantly. They do not need to be hovered over to complete their daily tasks.
Their choices come in the activities they do after the work is finished. Since their schooling is limited to an aggressive math, writing and reading program their school work is finished quite early in the day. The faster they complete it the more free time they have. He afternoons are free to pursue any activity they choose.
Without TV children will often choose reading as a pass time ( I can vouch for this we don't watch much TV and my kids are often caught reading all thought he day)  other options might include music, sport, small business, or art. It would be much more relaxing as a parent to see your children doing art knowing that they are ahead of the pack in math, writing and reading skills. 

[FomerlyMrsObedih_Now_BatmansMama]

MyBabyian, I'll share how I see it - Douglas loves math and learning. He also likes playing/working on the computer and watching EL DVDs. I have no doubt that if given a choice he will rather stick with easier things, watch cartoons, run wild in the house etc. If allowed to do this for long enough, it will become his comfort zone. So doing what he wants will ultimately equal doing the most unproductive things THAT THE ENVIRONMENT ALLOWS.

If however, I block access to twaddle, keep his environment refreshed with appropriately challenging activities and materials, and nurture in him a love for order and mastery, then these will be the things he desires. So in planning homeschool, I see my role as provider of rich food and setter of parameters (how much should be consumed) and Dougie is free to play within those boundaries. Also, if he is seriously resistant to something, I know I need to offer him a different approach to the topic, even if that is just a different way of thinking about it. I don't know if this explains it well, but I see what Douglas and I do as teamwork. I am not trying to take him somewhere he doesn't want to be, and the older and more mature he gets the more input he will have in running his life, until he really is that autonomous young person, who is wise enough to know who and when to turn to others for support.

This intuitively makes sense to me because of my own personality and issues with autocratic leadership. I hated it as a child (still do), and being African (were that is almost entirely the kind of leadership practiced) I see the result of it large scale back home and do not want that for my child. I think there is a world of difference between 'do what you're told' without being informed of reasons or plans and being allowed to have input and given the dignity of being heard out, knowing you and your feelings and opinions are respected and valued. It doesn't mean the child gets to be a dictator. But neither does the parent, who is responsible for modelling how people ought to interact and most importantly negotiate.

[Tamsyn]

Thank you, MrsObedih.  I love your insights on this! Karma.

[Wolfwind]

I'm really enjoying the URtheMom lectures as well.  They are fabulous.  seastar, my guess would be that she doesn't want to give permenant access to these lectures, but you can download a program like SoundTap Audio (they have a free trial) that saves the sound coming out of your computer's speakers as an mp3 file.

Mybabyian, I think that when they say that the student is "doing what they want to," that refers to free time, as Manda said, and also to more advanced work.  By the time these self-taught children are teenagers, they are making a lot of the choices in their education, and just getting a parental OK.  Obviously, that doesn't apply to a six-year-old!  Young kids have to learn what Mom and Dad assign.  But by giving them control over their planner (a key urthemom point) and making them responsible to get their assignments done before they can be done with school, they learn enough responsibility that when they're older, they can direct themselves.  (and with EL, they will probably be done with the requirements for public high school, so they can really pick whatever they want).

So I'm leaning more and more toward using a self-teaching method.  I do wonder about the Robinson curriculum specifically, though.  I downladed a list of the books included, and they just seem odd to me.  WHY does anyone have to read all the books in the Five Little Pepper series?  I like that style of book, and those are not my favorites.  I read an old review online that said that Dr Robinson and his children were "trying to create a curriculum that would do for the teaching of literature what Saxon did for math," and I assume that this curriculum is it.  But it doesn't make any sense to me.  I really wish I could buy just the Course of Study and see what he has to say about it.

[mybabyian]

Thanks so much everyone.  Beautifully explained.  I am reading a book called "Mastery" and one of its themes is about finding your calling so that you have the drive and motivation to put in the hours of practice it takes to become a master.  This is what I like about homeschooling for my son.  I can make sure he gets a good education, he can have some input to that so that it isn't forced, and in his free time (which will be a lot more than if I sent him to school) he can devote himself to whatever passions he has.  To borrow from the other thread, I think that is how you get a painter like the girl in the Kramarik family.

[carpe vestri vita]

I'm very late to this discussion, but I want to throw in my 2 cents on the Swann family.

When I read their books, what I took from it is that institutional school is so inefficient that it takes 14040 hours (13 years, 180 days/year, 6 hours/day) to teach what can be learned in 3000-5616 hours (2-3 hours/day, 5-6 days/week, 50-52 weeks/year, for 6 years). Now one could simply use 5000 or so hours to be as good as the average member of society, or one could take the remaining 9000 hours and go so much wider and deeper.

Working 1080 hours per year (same as institutional schools) is less than 4.5 hours of work per workday. I use workdays because I don't want the kids working when their Dad is home. I feel like that is a waste of family time. When he is at work, we do 4.5 hours of work. 1 hour is music. 1 hour is handicrafts (sewing, weaving, knitting, woodworking). The remaining 2.5 hours is enough that they could complete two years of school per year (as the Swann's did). Not only are none of my kids school aged yet, I do not want them to graduate early for a variety of reasons. Instead, we squeeze lots into the space: Language Arts (in English, and French), Math (French), Logic (English), Social Studies (French), Sciences (English), Computers, Art, and Drama.

School time does not include our morning run, sports, cooking, or chores. Nor educational things like trips to the zoo or museum, any learning games or reading they do during their free time, etc.

Honestly they're progressing faster than one year per year anyway. We only started focused, consistent, classes in August and we have already completed the first year in a number of subjects.

I think the Swanns (and others) were on to a great idea.

[mario]

Just FYI, Calvert & Laurel Springs (another similar school) are having virtual open houses between jan 22-24.You can sign up on their website, Calvert has several dates available, I believe. Laural Springs has a decent "gifted" program in the later years. Both are sort of homeschool/sort of answering to a teacher private school from what I can tell.

I like the idea of pursuing a distance program for grades 1-5 or heavily afterschooling for grades 1-5, *possibly* enrolling them in a TAG private school program from 6-8, and then aim for a high end boarding college prep school for 9-12. A heavy emphasis on music, art, and sport in the afternoon will hopefully develop well rounded individuals with at least one area beyond academics where they really shine. I am possibly open to high caliber gifted and talented programs should the road lead them there.

Hello TeachingMyToddlers,

What do you think about afterschooling? I mean, how many hours a day do you think it would be necessary without bothering or pushing the kid too hard?
I ask because I have the same opinion. I also like Laurel Springs but I don't plan to have my kid away from a regular Brazilian school. I have talked to Laurel Springs and they said that when my kid get there (in that age), it could be an option for a part time school (and thus with the effect of afterschooling).

[Mandabplus3]

Please give us more information about what they said regarding part time enrolment. I think part time on site enrolment would be the ideal situation. If my kids could go to school 3 days a week and be home schooled for 3 I would be sooooooo happy! They would be soooo happy and all the work we want done would get done. Including the extra curricular stuff like music and languages.
After schooling takes a delicate balance of play and rest time, focused learning time, and extra curricular activities. To excell beyond school level your need kids who can buckle down for one to two hours a day.  Really it's one Saxon lesson a day and some reading time. I would ideally work them more until they can read anything put in front of them. Here we just switch the focus. The first 2 years are focused on reading until they are high school level readers then we switch to math focus for after schooling.
We use car travel time for extra learning like history, geography and science. My kids are in the car a minimum of 7 hours a week. The more car learning we can do the better 
I wonder what I have to do in Australia to get part time schooling approved? 

[nee1]

nee1 I just found that I also get this yahoo group digest about Robinson Curriculum. 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RC_A2_Group/
Again, not particularly active.

Jenene,

I've been looking at the A2 curriculum in more detail. I feel it acts as a complement to RC. Granted, I've not heard much of the achievements of A2 children, but it appears a good supplement to RC (i.e., it comprises a good list of vintage books). I found some 3 youtube videos on A2 here - http://www.youtube.com/user/A2Curriculum?feature=watch.

And on the posts in RC_A2 yahoo group, I've recently gone through the most recent posts, and they don't have the extreme marketing I had found in the early threads. (I had started the group by reading its archives from the early threads). I'll probably order the A2 demo that goes for $5.  What are your thoughts on A2?

[lois1]

This has been a very informative thread, thanks to everyone who contributed. I'm nowhere near thinking about a curriculum really... (I probably should be??) But this was eye opening - I had never heard of homeschools with self led learning - I love it! I work, am continuing my studies... but want to homeschool my little boy (it's our only option at the moment, no good schools nearby). This method definitely is made for me 

One thing that I didn't agree with though with Robinson in his talk was when he said that languages are something that they can pick up later..... given that I fully endorse EL. I can see where he felt it wasn't a priority in his home but becoming fluent (& confident) in a second language as an adult was far harder than any of my uni work!

So given that we have these examples where children can still be very successful & advanced while ("despite only"  ) starting formal schooling at age 5 or thereabouts, it's encouraged me more to focus on languages with my little boy. Absolutely we will continue to do reading, music & maths & talk about science & geography throughout the day... but I think I would be more excited if he had a good grasp of 3 or 4 languages by age 4 than if he could do whatever level of advanced maths.

As an aside, Is maths more left brain & language right brain? Or is it just that you change the way you teach it as the child becomes more left brain dominant? Maths seems logical & so easy to pick up, so it will take longer to teach a concept to a toddler than it would be to a 5 yr old?? But that's the way with EL isn't it, you sometimes have to input for a long time before you see results. Although my 28mth old has blown us away with some of the "maths" or at least the awareness of it (I was just doing it because I thought I should & didn't really believe I would see any evidence till much later, shame on me!) so he's turning my argument on its head. 

Of course, being advanced in all areas would be wonderful, of which there are also examples of, on this forum... But I know my time is limited so thinking about priorities & goals in case I can't fit it all in....I will put a premium on languages knowning that there will be still be plenty of time to be academically successful during what are the more conventional school years.

But maths is easier to teach than a language you don't know very well so I might change my tune....

I hope this makes sense.. I come on here & blether away as there aren't too many other people around who are interested.. so thanks for listening   

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