We Can Do by Moshe Kai with guest Robert Levy discussing Saxon Math.

[PokerDad]

Thanks nee1. I love hearing about how other people have gone about educating their children... I guess that's the whole point of being on a forum like this, eh?

I've looked for a way to specifically look for comments, but it looks like Amazon only indexes user reviews.

However, not all hope is lost. These comments do get spidered, and thus, I present:
http://tinyurl.com/8x38ttp

You will have to wade through them one by one though.

Also, if you go in and reply to one of his comments, it's likely that he subscribes to the thread that he leaves comments on so that he can respond. This means that you can sort of publicly email him on a comment thread LOL. I can't guarantee that he subscribes to the threads he comments on (I don't when I leave a comment) but it's a good guess.

[nee1]

However, not all hope is lost. These comments do get spidered, and thus, I present:
http://tinyurl.com/8x38ttp

PokerDad, clicking that link takes me to Google's home page i.e., www.google.com. Is there a mistake?

[PokerDad]

Is that all? there's supposed to be search terms in there.

If it doesn't work, this will work (I know it works, it's a site that condescending people use in forums everyday) 
http://bit.ly/KZXiVc

[nee1]

Thanks a lot, PokerDad. The new link works and I'm grateful.

[TeachingMyToddlers]

Perhaps someone could invite him over here to the forum to do a little Q & A?  You'd be able to get all of your questions answered directly if he has the time to do so, or at least a couple of them. I'm sure he can respect everyone's dedication to educating their children here and would be flattered by the invitation if he has the time to respond. Just an idea.

[nee1]

PokerDad,

Did you see Levy's review of 'Every Day Math' at http://www.amazon.com/Everyday-Mathematics-Student-Math-Journal/dp/1570398313/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt


and the link he pasted in the comments to his review: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tr1qee-bTZI&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Tr1qee-bTZI&rel=1</a>

I watched the video and was completely shocked. Is this what most kids pass through in schools in the name of math discovery? Why not just teach the child standard and well-known algorithms? This video has reinforced my desire to be my kids' first, best,  and continual teacher, even if they enroll in school. Seriously. Lest schools ruin them.

I now understand Levy’s passion: see his comments to the review he posted here http://www.amazon.com/review/R1M1KSMPGFW2G2/ref=cm_cr_dp_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=093979845X&nodeID=283155&store=books#wasThisHelpful.

An excerpt of his comments on that page:
``As to the math wars, I'm with you. As in any political debate, I look at who is lining up on what side. In the case of math, it was conservatives arguing for traditional methods and liberals wanting to do all the whacked-out stuff. At that point I try to make sense of it - and it was easy, the liberals were out to lunch. Over the years, I've tried to make sense out of why they would do so much damage and the only thing that I can come up with (after having read it from them) is that the goal is "equity" among races and genders (i.e., traditional math is biased towards white males - which makes zero sense - but that is what they believe - hence you change it). But whatever the reason, I knew what was going on since college from Dr. Sowell and therefore I knew that no public school would EVER get a chance to ruin my kid's life (and that was long before he was born). That was my motivation with Saxon - I knew that I could keep him a minimum of 2 years ahead of grade level (even though he wound up 8 years ahead at one point), and that no one, no school, or no curriculum, could ever mess him up. And, of course, it worked.’’

[PokerDad]

Thanks for the post. I've seen the video, and yes... she's describing a discovery method called TERC. I wanted to educate myself on this after my wife told me that they teach "investigations" curriculum at her school. There's been a spat of college students that have a very low grasp of numbers, and this was one way to help solve the problem. If you ask me, it will make things worse. I have a saying... it's like trying to focus on the wet instead of just focusing on the water; if you have water, you'll have the wet. In other words, if you work at math like Moshe Kai or David Levy, you'll have the number sense no problem.

I'm with Mr. Levy and the plethora of accomplished physics doctorates and mathematicians on this one - these methods can severely disable or cripple your child's progress in math.

It's not just math though. After going through Richard Feynman's book, it was clear to me that people that don't know very much are the ones making the decisions regarding education. They might study how to educate, but few making decisions are accomplished enough in the respective field to make a quality decisions (ie, good textbooks)... I imagine the process hasn't improved much in the last 20 years either.

The fact that these two kids could gain such a massive edge in mathematics says just as much about our education system as it does about the kids and their hard work.

[LDSMom]

Just came across another article - also young college students who are good at math, from the same family: http://milwaukeecourieronline.com/index.php/2012/05/03/prodigy-is-youngest-to-receive-masters-degree-from-oxford/

“Every child is a genius,” says father Imafidon in a British interview. “Once you identify the talent of a child and put them in an environment that will nurture that talent, then the sky is the limit. Look at Tiger Woods or the Williams sisters, they were nurtured. You can never rule anything out with our children.”

[nee1]

Just came across another article - also young college students who are good at math, from the same family: http://milwaukeecourieronline.com/index.php/2012/05/03/prodigy-is-youngest-to-receive-masters-degree-from-oxford/

Gosh! LDSMom, thank you so much for sharing that link. It's one of the most inspiring articles I've read in a long time. Hurray for early learning! And hurray for the 'growth mindsets' of the kid's parents! Other parents would have claimed their kids were born 'gifted' with 'math genes', that they had never taught their child, they simply woke up one morning to see the child solving calculus!

Hear this growth mindset response of the father:
“Every child is a genius,” says father Imafidon in a British interview. “Once you identify the talent of a child and put them in an environment that will nurture that talent, then the sky is the limit. Look at Tiger Woods or the Williams sisters, they were nurtured. You can never rule anything out with our children.”

The exact thing Doman says all the time!!!

[LDSMom]

It is an inspiring article! I love too how they say that the parents are not experts in math. 

It does seem like these kids are in college early based on their Math ability. I wonder if there are many early college goers who get there through language arts. I have been hearing a lot lately from my friends "your son will be fine in Kindergarten if he's already reading, they will just give him books at his level and in a few years all of the kids will catch up anyway" - The first part of this statement may be true, and the second part debatable (and perhaps hasn't been thoroughly studied, give it another 5-10 yrs when this new age of early learners get older).

Early college entrance was never my intention, hadn't thought about it until reading through these articles and seeing that common theme. It's making me reevaluate my "plan" if you will.  I've got great schools picked out until middle school, and then what? let him decide, encourage early college, or will we get to that point far earlier as these children have.  I wish I could talk one on one with one of these parents who have been there to hear how they weighed their decision and the experiences they've had.

It also drives home the point to me that while reading is extremely important, we shouldn't forget about Math! The more I read about these kids area of study, the more important I realize Math is in certain degrees that may interest my child. Just because I don't use much Math, doesn't mean that he won't.

When I learned how to read, I loved it and read all of the time, quickly becoming a great reader far above my class level - this had no impact on jumping me up a grade, I simply read well and was always comfortable reading out loud and could sit and read for hours and hours.  Perhaps it's my perception, but with Math, unless a child is extremely interested and finds ways to study on their own, they will pretty much always be near grade level unless encouraged or taught from a parent or older siblings advanced levels of math, or home schooled where they can move ahead at their own pace.

I think for my own part we will do some math as part of our after schooling, not really with the intent of early college (if it happens, it happens) but more so to continue my child's interest in it and keep him interested in learning.

Sorry for the long rambling, just wanted to get some of my thoughts out there.

[PokerDad]

Thanks! I appreciated the article. Math and IT.... the trend continues. Also...

and at 12, she received an Oxford Scholarship. At the age of 13 in 2003, she was granted a British scholarship to study Mathematics at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland.

like I said, stellar grades when aged 17 or 18 is one thing, but when it's 12: discounted education.

[cokers4life]

Just came across another article - also young college students who are good at math, from the same family: http://milwaukeecourieronline.com/index.php/2012/05/03/prodigy-is-youngest-to-receive-masters-degree-from-oxford/

“Every child is a genius,” says father Imafidon in a British interview. “Once you identify the talent of a child and put them in an environment that will nurture that talent, then the sky is the limit. Look at Tiger Woods or the Williams sisters, they were nurtured. You can never rule anything out with our children.”

This article is very inspiring.  It is definitely comforting to know the parents didn't have a degree in mathematics yet raised children with strong mathematical abilities.  Coming from the low social economic end of the spectrum, it is often my fear that my limited education (first generation graduate of college) will also limit my children.  My question is how did the parents accomplish this without homeschooling as noted in the article?  What techniques are they using to gain such success especially when the parents see every child as a genius??  The information so far on the family is very limited.  Still searching....

[sonya_post]

@ Pokerdad,

I liked your assessment of how going to college early does leave a child at a disadvantage, because they really are still kids. Yet, it does provide the opportunity for scholarships.

I do want to point out that my friend, who is mortified that I am giving formal lessons to my 2 year old, has produced 3 - that is right 3 - National Merit Scholars. With a grand total of $320,000 in paid college funding to excellent schools. One went to Duke, one went to University of Dallas,. The last one just started there. Of the two oldest, one is getting his Doctorate at Duke and the other is getting his from somewhere else. They have yet to fork over money for college other than for living expenses. Her last son entered college at 19. She held him back in 7th grade so that he could mature and would have a better chance when taking the PSAT exam. Her secret, she believes, is that they followed a classical approach - not necessarily an accelerated one which you will find in many classical curricula. They worked on all things to mastery - be that greek, latin, math or whatever, they schooled year round (because she homeschooled all 8 of her children), and getting them good teachers when the material was above her. She has used ScholarsOnline, Regina Coeli, and the Circe Institute. So it is possible without early entrance. I might add that part of their education was excellence in all things. Her children play piano and compete at the state level. Why? Every educated person should know music - it brings joy to the soul. They run in track and swim. Why? Because a human is not just a mind.

@ cokers4life - this should be an encouragment to you as she also does not have a college degree but she has labored many long hours to learn Latin and Greek. And her children know that excellence is not an option. I know that she hasn't slept much in the last 26 years. She was busy studying.

[Robert Levy]

Ciao,

Thanks for the invite - yes, I am the man of those Amazon reviews, and David is my kid.  My history goes a long way, but to sum it up, I ended up barely doing well (fine now, though, as I'm considered the wiring expert on the International Space Station, something I don't deny), but no thanks to a system designed to fail me.  I swore that would never happen to my kids.  I ended up with one kid (wife couldn't have more due to complications).  He's now at Texas A&M and (hopefully) finishing his Master's in Mechanical Engineering.  He turned 18 earlier this year.

I have to agree, my quote was good and I even got a good laugh reading it again:  "we learned the great names in math, like Pythagoras, Newton, and Euler, who had made great discoveries contributing to the field. I noted that my kid's name was not among them, so I decided that it was probably best to leave the discoveries to those people".

Of all the postings that I've read (so far), none said that I was out to lunch, which is usually the case, particularly when I go political, as I don't think it can be separated from everything else going on.  So thanks, it would be nice if everyone had the same goals for this country and its kids, but, with Everyday Math and Sight Words, I simply don't think that's the case.

By the way, he's not all brain.  He's done everything short of rebuilding an engine and trans in our cars (I kept a couple of old cars for him to learn on), and that includes changing a clutch last summer.  I also made him him help me build a shed in our backyard, using exactly the same framing methods (for hurricane resistance) that we built our house and detached garage with.  He hasn't had a free ride, but when I asked him to rate his childhood from 1 to 10, he gave it an 11, so I was very, very, happy (and surprised).  He's seen his friends struggle and is very happy to have that part of the learning curve behind him.

[sonya_post]

Robert,

Thanks for joining us! I'm thinking this might need to be split off to a new thread......

I'm just wondering if you have give us a brief ( ) sketch of what you did with David. Betting there willbe a bunch of questions that follow. Don't mean to hijack the thread, PokerDad, just thought since someone mentioned inviting him over I would.

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