Anybody Expecting? Using BabyPlus?

[Nanayaya]

I am new to the forum, but would like to share my experience of using babyplus. I was recommended by KL to use this when I was pregnant with my first child. I also listened to prenatal CDs as well as play 'light' games with her.

She was born prematurely at 33 weeks, however, she was more alert than any other babies and knew to turn her head when we called her name. She is now 15 months old and has reached all the developmental milestone that she is supposed to. She is also a very calm baby, hardly cries, sleeps and eats well. We are very blessed to have such a cheerful baby. She learns really well too as we are doing the flashcards etc. with her.

Thank you so much KL for recommending babyplus to me and I have recommended it to all my friends too. I am now using it with my second baby, due in November (I wouldn't risk not using it now that I can see the benefits  )

[KL]

So glad Baby Plus worked out well for you, Nanayaya! And welcome to the Forum!

[trinity papa]

We used B+ too, but as this is my first child we could not compare but compared to friends who have children and some at the same age she is relatively calmer ..... and she is developing slightly faster than others .... but then again it could be all the stimulation i have been giving her too .....

she likes kicking or swinging her legs .... to some rythem or sth that only she can hear ..... a friend said a happy baby would kick her legs .... but ... she does that sometimes when she is being fussy ..... she does cry, have colic etc, she does become fussy and irritated. But my mum says its much much lesser..... well for new parents like me i wouldn't know .... she isn't totally very difficult to handle ... but she response well .... especially when you let her be ... and she really has a mind of her own ..... and she will protest if she ain't happy to go along with it ...... but generally a happy baby

However, if depending on B+ alone i doubt it would be enough, the mother carrying the child must essentially be stable, emotionally, physically, psychologically etc ... meditation is good as well as classical .... it is also said that stress is good but not over stress .... stress releases certain chemicals .... and this is supposingly to help teach the fetus to respond to it .... but toomuch stress may overwhelm .... moderation is best ....

[mya79]

we're using Babyplus at the moment. we've found it to be a commitment to pre-birth bonding.
first thing we've noted is the level of excitement the programme generates in our baby anytime we start- kicks.

second, because we have tried to engage our baby at about the same time both in the morning and evening, his activity level is normally higher around that time if we are late to hook him up. this is giving us an impression that our baby is already learning about routine, even at this very early stage.

we believe every little helps - talking to the baby, listening to music of different genres and even Babyplus. they are all geared towards connecting baby to parents and preparing the baby for the tasks ahead on the overall.
so if you can afford it and you're expecting, you should try it even if it is hard to evaluate the weight of its impact on a baby's development.

[Nanayaya]

When I started to use B+ with my first, the thought I had was 'as long as it does not harm my baby, I don't see why I shouldn't try it' At the end, I am VERY happy with how my baby turned out: happy, calm and very alert!

[nadia0801]

I have been using BabyPlus since week 18 of my pregnancy. I'm now at my 30th and have stopped to use it after reading at a website that it can actually slow-down the development of my baby. The site reasons that you wouldn't intentionally wake a baby in slumber with loud music, more-so a fetus who is still developing. Besides, you can't really tell if the baby inside you is awake or not. "Baby Movements" are not indicators of wakefulness as they move even during sleep so there is no safe assumption of when baby is awake. Babyplus recommends that you play the beats for about half an hour twice a day. Makes me wonder if I'm forcefully waking her during those two 30-minute sessions and robs her of precious "developing" time.

Also based on some reviews, there are instances that babies who have been exposed to Baby+ are actually more restless and colicky.

I'm glad for all the parents who have had good results with Baby+ but in my opinion, if there is ANY chance of harm a gadget might cause my baby, I'll definitely avoid it. I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if ever the program affected her negatively. Just my two cents.

[nohayo]

But then any normal sounds around you wake your baby up?

[nadia0801]

But then any normal sounds around you wake your baby up?

Yup any loud noise can wake baby up but keep in mind that as per instructions, BabyPlus must be played for a full half-hour, twice a day. The 'speakers' are strapped in the tummy and is pretty loud. This is not comparable to a sudden bang of the door or a car honk, it's a consistent loud set of 'drum-beats' played for extended periods.. 

[KL]

I understand how you feel, Nadia.  BTW, I would love to read the article you mentioned if you can find it.

My understanding of Babyplus and the in-utero environment is this.  It is ALREADY extremely noisy in the womb! The loudest sound is the mother's heartbeat, constantly pounding, as well as the whooshing and slushing sound of all the blood flow and stomach rumblings.  In fact, the reason why Babyplus needs to be so loud is because otherwise it'd be very difficult to hear it with all that noise inside (and also because of the thickness of the uterus wall, of course).

So to me, introducing another sound like BabyPlus would not be like a sudden sound that would startle the baby or disturb it.  You know how young babies can sleep through really loud noise (eg., in public places where it's really noisy with chatter, music, etc.), and even if someone lets out a really loud laugh, it's not startling because the background noise is already so loud?  It's very different from having a very quiet environment, and if you suddenly let out any loud sound, then yes, THAT would be startling to the baby.  Which is why, actually, after Felicity was born, we always made sure we had background sound (either white noise, which babies love, or music), so that would be a background layer of noise/sound so that any sudden sound (like a laugh, or what we say) would not be such a sharp contrast that would startle the baby.

[trinity papa]

B+ is a 1 hr 2 session thingy ...... we still have it, keeping it for the next one in a few yrs time ..... i hope ....

its low rythem beats that gets progressively faster and more complex that works the baby brains or subcon....

but then again its whether you believe in it or not, but its not the ultimate ... as i often tell my wife ....., the basic needs to be gotton right first, a good temperament, a controlled expression and joyous light hearted mode would be best for the fetus .... the B+ is an added tool on top of it ..... if you can't control your feelings giving hormones etc as excuses .... B+ would not be as effective .....

i have seen some babies whose mother did not use B+ but the mothers are very well controlled ..... and the babies temperament was excellent ..... ( I know becoz some of them are my relatives and i can compare among all my cousins and nephews which stretch over 30, me being the oldest among the batch and B+ wasn't even invented yet.)

[nadia0801]

I understand how you feel, Nadia.  BTW, I would love to read the article you mentioned if you can find it.

My understanding of Babyplus and the in-utero environment is this.  It is ALREADY extremely noisy in the womb! The loudest sound is the mother's heartbeat, constantly pounding, as well as the whooshing and slushing sound of all the blood flow and stomach rumblings.  In fact, the reason why Babyplus needs to be so loud is because otherwise it'd be very difficult to hear it with all that noise inside (and also because of the thickness of the uterus wall, of course).

So to me, introducing another sound like BabyPlus would not be like a sudden sound that would startle the baby or disturb it.  You know how young babies can sleep through really loud noise (eg., in public places where it's really noisy with chatter, music, etc.), and even if someone lets out a really loud laugh, it's not startling because the background noise is already so loud?  It's very different from having a very quiet environment, and if you suddenly let out any loud sound, then yes, THAT would be startling to the baby.  Which is why, actually, after Felicity was born, we always made sure we had background sound (either white noise, which babies love, or music), so that would be a background layer of noise/sound so that any sudden sound (like a laugh, or what we say) would not be such a sharp contrast that would startle the baby.

Hi! Your explanation made a lot of sense. I really hope it doesn't have bad effects, for the sake of everyone.

My concern is that the "in-utero" sounds are natural so there's really no harm in the developing baby because it's just nature's own sound-play. However, daily exposure to extended periods (one-hour 2x a day) of artificial-made sounds kind-of scares me. It's just so..un-natural.


The negative testimonials i've read are from Amazon.com user reviews. Try searching for "Babyplus" then read the reviews. Some highly recommends it, some had regrets using it.

I've also read on "What To Expect When You're Expecting" (the book) that consciously stimulating babies while in utero does not have documented advantages..all are just theories and it does have possible side-effects.

It's really the parent's choice to do in-utero stimulation: the choice between "possible good" and "possible bad" effects. But for me, I'd stay on the safe side.. Besides, geniuses are made by mother nature, not some program. I doubt Einstein and the others have had these drumbeats.

Also, here are some links that provides insights about the Baby+ system:

http://daddytypes.com/2007/08/30/babyplus_prenatal_audio_system_makes_normal_babies_look_like_geniuses_compared_to_their_stupid_parents.php

http://daddytypes.com/2008/03/24/two_doctors_both_alike_in_babyplus_quackery.php

Let's just hope that all parents are making informed choices and are not just blinded by advertisements.  I myself was guilty =)

[KL]

Thanks for that. That was a very interesting read. Brent Logan himself replied too.  I'm not sure about the truth of some of the accusations, but these are my comments on this and in general:

1. Is BabyPlus "unnatural"? Well, this is the same argument said about babies being taught to read. Many people say it's unnatural, and we shouldn't do it. Why? "They're too young to learn!", or "You just don't teach babies at this age!" etc etc.  If you look at our brillkids.com home page, we even have a big NOTE entitled "Is Teaching Babies Unnatural?" precisely because of such feelings by some people.
I'm sure some people also probably said that the first sound recordings were "unnatural" too when it first came out on the radio. Personally, I don't find babyplus sounds unnatural.

2. Similarly, there is (and probably will be for a long time) a big portion of people who will 'instinctively' be opposed to these things.  First, we have that misconception that babies cannot learn, you have to force them to learn, etc., as mentioned above and detailed on brillbaby.com. Secondly, the natural assumption for these people is that therefore all these companies out there doing products to teach babies etc. are just con-artists taking advantage or poor innocent and gullible mothers.  We (BrillKids) probably also face people who have this assumption too, and I don't think this will go away anytime soon.

Mind you, I'm sure that there ARE people who do 'take advantage' of parents' love for their children and try to sell them products which don't work or are lousy. But does that mean that all products out there are worthless?

For prenatal education, it is even more open to this assumption, because it's much harder to prove and see results in fetuses before they are even born.  (At least with early learning we can actually see babies learning many things.) But just because it's hard to prove prenatal stimulation scientifically, does it mean that it's all untrue and there is no benefit at all?


So, the way I look at it is this.  Does it harm the baby? I find it very hard to see how it would.  Does it work?  Actually, the question should be, does it make any positive difference? Well, who knows. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it helps some more than it does others.  So the ultimate question for me would be, can I afford it? If so, I would buy it. If not, I'd save my money for other things.

But in any event, don't expect Babyplus to do all the work for you! At most it is something that will help.  If you don't take care of your mood, your diet, etc., then all may count for nothing.  and also, make sure you also do all those other things in conjunction with babyplus, like singing and talking to the baby, touching/feeling/massaging it, playing music, etc. etc.  On this point, does singing etc. help? Who knows? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Is it scientifically proven to help? Maybe it is. But what about the time when it had not yet been proven. Does it mean that it didn't work then?  Which is why I say, If it's not too much trouble or cost too much, then I would do it (assuming I'm confident it is safe)!

As for the fact that Einstein never had babyplus, you know, there's a book called "Einstein never used flash cards".   It is a book condemning early learning, based on all those (false) assumptions about early learning.  But anyway, this is actually the "Nature vs Nurture" debate - how much is nature, how much is nurture?  Personally, I believe it's about 50/50.  If Einstein had prenatal stimulation and early learning, maybe he'd be EVEN more brilliant? Who knows?

Anyway, just my 2 cents' worth.  This is a very interesting conversation!

[nadia0801]

Yup interesting topic indeed!

I personally wouldn't compare the Baby+ system to early learning. My reasons are:

Huge difference in the application of the program - Early learning is/should be done at times baby is attentive to the flashcards/video and must not be forced to "learn" if they are sleepy or tired. On the other-hand, Baby+ instructs us to use it for 2 hours a day, not considering the state of wakefulness of the baby.

Proof - Early learning has shown solid positive effects (just look at the testimonial videos  ) though I'm not sure there is "scientific evidence". You can really tell that the baby learned the words from the program. Baby+ however, cannot claim in any way that a certain trait of the baby is attributed to the use of it (because we don't run tests on fetuses maybe )

Product Claims - We can definitely tell if the baby benefited from early learning. He'll learn the words we taught him, learn the actions we demonstrated, etc. But how can Baby+ claim anything? Being more alert,  less colicky, attentive can be attributed to many things.

The sounds of Baby+ IS not very unnatural for me (like orchestrated heart-beats). What I find unnatural is exposing the baby to it for long periods. Maybe it'll interrupt the baby's normal sleeping pattern, hence, impeding his development. Just maybe. You're right, we can never be sure and that fact scares me - making me stay on the safe side 

[Nikita]

well I've just been doing research on this and plan to use it on my next one(s)...will be able to let you know if any difference to the other 4 who didnt get it.  It's actually really affordable if you buy on ebay... in fact in Australian ebay no-one seems to be selling them 2nd hand (no-one's heard of it over here!), so there's a few New In Box being sold buy-it-now for between $70 and $100 including postage. That's way better than buying off BabyPlus themselves!! And US ebay is quite a variety of prices, from $25 used, plus post, no bids yet... to most expensively $149 buy-it-now. Keep your eye out there for a bargain to snap up when you can....

[Nikita]

what measurable things did you notice? There's alot of testimonies on their site but it's all positive so I'm assuming it's all censored.... as in, we dont get shown the letters saying...I tried it and nothing happened. I plan to buy one...couldnt hurt...

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