Welcome, Guest.
Please sign in or you can click here to register an account for free.
Did not receive activation email?

Refer-a-Friend and earn loyalty points!
[6 Sep] Get the BEST of BrillKids at a VERY SPECIAL price (for a limited time only!) (More...)

[05 Apr] BrillKids HQ is relocating: there may be minor shipping delays (More...)

[17 Jan] Looking for WINK TO LEARN coupons? New coupons now available for redemption! (More...)

[22 Jul] More SPEEKEE coupons available at the BrillKids Redemption Center! (More...)

[22 Mar] Important Announcement Regarding License Keys and Usage of BrillKids Products (More...)

[26 Feb] MORE Wink to Learn coupons available at the BrillKids Redemption Center! (More...)

[08 Jun] NEW: Vietnamese Curriculum for Little Reader! (More...)

[15 May] Hello Pal Social Language Learning App Has Launched! (More...)

[3 Mar] Update: Hello Pal now Beta Testing! (What We've Been Up To) (More...)

[11 Feb] Sign up for our Little Reader Vietnamese Beta Testing Program! (Sign ups open until FEB. 15, 2015 ONLY!) (More...)

[26 Jan] More Wink to Learn coupons available at our Redemption Center! (More...)

[18 Nov] Get your Arabic Curriculum for Little Reader! (More...)

[21 Oct] EEECF News: Get 30% Off from Hoffman Academy! (More...)

[22 Sep] The EEECF is now registered in the UN and we now accept donations! (More...)

[13 Aug] The Early Education for Every Child Foundation (EEECF) is now a registered charity on AMAZON SMILE! (More...)

[12 Aug] ALL-NEW Transportation & Traffic Category Pack for Little Reader!(More...)

[21 Jul] Get 10% off our NEW Actions and Motions Category Pack for Little Reader! (More...)

[14 Jul] Get 10% off BrillKids Books! IT'S THE BRILLKIDS SUMMER BOOK SALE! (More...)

[25 Jun] BrillKids store and website now available for viewing in Arabic! (More...)

[09 Jun] Get your Russian Curriculum for Little Reader! 10% off introductory price! (More...)

[09 May] Free Little Reader, Price Changes, and Promotional Discounts! (More...)

[28 Apr] Get BabyPlus Discount Coupons at the BrillKids Coupon Redemption Center (More...)

[13 Mar] Get your FREE Chinese Curriculum Update for Little Reader! (More...)

[20 Feb] FINALLY, introducing our Spanish Curriculum for Little Reader! (More...)

[24 Feb] We're looking for Content Checkers and Testers for our Arabic Curriculum! (More...)

[10 Feb] Volunteer with the Early Education for Every Child Foundation (EEECF) (More...)

[24 Jan] Check out our NEW Thai Curriculum Pack for Little Reader! (More...)

[20 Jan] Get Discounts from BrillKids Product Partners! (More...)

[10 Jan] Introducing our New Category Pack: Exotic & Wild Animals! (More...)

[27 Nov] Sign up for our LR Spanish Beta Testing Program (LIMITED SLOTS ONLY!) (More...)

[19 Dec] Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! NOTE: BrillKids office closed on holidays (More...)

[16 Oct] Announcing the WINNERS of our BrillKids Summer Video Contest 2013! (More...)

[04 Oct] Get Little Reader Touch on your Android device! (More...)

[19 Jul] BrillKids products now available for purchase at our Russian Online Store! (More...)

[31 Jul] BrillKids Video Contest Summer 2013 - Deadline EXTENDED to August 31st! (More...)

[20 Jun] Join the BrillKids Video Contest Summer 2013! (More...)

[17 Jun] India Partners: BrillKids products now once again available in India! (More...)

[22 Apr] Little Reader Touch Version 2 Now Available (More...)

[21 Mar] French Curriculum available now for Little Reader! (More...)

[16 Apr] Spain Partners: BrillKids products now Online in Spain! (More...)

[07 Feb] Update to Little Math Version 2 now! (More...)

[07 Feb] Check out the *NEW* BrillKids Downloads Library! (More...)

[27 Feb] Singapore Partners: BrillKids products now Online in Singapore! (More...)

[20 Feb] Vietnam Partners: BrillKids products now Online in Vietnam! (More...)

[22 Jan] Important: About Sharing License Keys (More...)

[07 Nov] Update to Little Reader v3! (More...)

[19 Oct] We're Looking for Translators for our Little Reader Software (More...)

[15 Oct] More Right Brain Kids coupons available at our Redemption Center! (More...)

[25 Sep] CONTEST: Get A Free Little Musician by helping EEECF reach your friends and colleagues! (More...)

[17 Sep] Give a child the gift of literacy this Christmas: 20,000 children need your help! (More...)

[29 Aug] Little Musician wins Dr. Toy Awards! (More...)

[29 Aug] VIDEOS: Perfect Pitch at 2.5y, and compilation of Little Musician toddlers! (More...)

[09 Aug] Get Soft Mozart Coupons from the Points Redemption Center! (More...)

[03 Aug] Welcome NEW FORUM MODERATORS: Mela Bala, Mandabplus3, Kerileanne99, and Kmum! (More...)

[03 Aug] Winners of the Little Reader Video Contest (Part 5)! (More...)

[25 Jul] Bianca's Story - What happens 10+ years after learning to read as a baby/toddler (More...)

[27 Jun] Updates on our Early Education for Every Child Foundation (EEECF) (More...)

[27 Jun] Join the Little Reader Video Contest (Part 5) (More...)

[04 Jun] Being a Successful Affiliate - Now easier than ever before! (More...)


[30 Apr] Winners of the Little Reader Video Contest! (More...)

[28 Apr] The Early Education for Every Child Foundation - Help Us Make a Difference (More...)

[20 Apr] Little Reader Curricula on your iPad or iPhone - now possible with iAccess! (More...)

[12 Apr] LITTLE MUSICIAN - now in OPEN BETA TESTING (with a complete curriculum) (More...)

[12 Mar] *NEW* Little Reader Content Packs now available! (More...)

[01 Feb] Join the March 2012 Homeschooling Contest: Create a Monthly Theme Unit! (More...)

[27 Jan] Join the BrillKids Foundation as a Volunteer! (More...)

[20 Jan] BrillKids Featured Parent: Tonya's Teaching Story (More...)

[17 Dec] Dr. Richard Gentry joins the BrillKids Blog Team! (Read Interview on Early Reading) (More...)

[08 Dec] Little Reader Touch promo EXTENDED + Lucky Draw winners (More...)

[01 Dec] Affiliate Success Story - How Elle Made $4,527 in Sales in just 30 days (More...)

[22 Nov] Little Reader Touch now available in the App Store! (More...)

[09 Nov] Winners of the September 2011 Video Contest (More...)

[01 Nov] Another free seminar and updates from Jones Geniuses (More...)

[16 Sep] SPEEKEE is now a BrillKids partner product! Get Speekee coupons at the Coupon Redemption Center! (More...)

[02 Sep] Little Reader Wins Another Two Awards! (Mom's Best Award & TNPC Seal of Approval) (More...)

[05 Aug] Little Reader Deluxe Wins the Tillywig Brain Child Award! (More...)

[28 Jul] LITTLE MUSICIAN beta-testing NOW OPEN! - Sign up here. (More...)

[14 Jul] Little Reader Wins Another Award! (PTPA Seal of Approval) (More...)

[13 Jul] Jones Geniuses FREE Seminars & news of Fall classes (More...)

[30 Jun] Little Reader Wins 2011 Creative Child Awards! (More...)

[11 May] The *NEW* Little Reader Deluxe - now available! (More...)

[06 May] Do you blog about early learning? - Join the BrillKids Blogger Team! (More...)

[21 Apr] Aesop's Fables vol. 2 - *NEW* Storybooks from BrillKids! (More...)

[15 Apr] BrillKids Foundation - Help Us Make a Difference (More...)

[08 Apr] Get READEEZ Discount Coupons at the Forum Shop! (More...)

[06 Apr] The new Parents of Children with Special Needs board is now open! (More...)

[06 Apr] Join the Jones Geniuses online workshop for BrillKids members this April 21st! [FULLY BOOKED] (More...)

[04 Apr] Get TUNE TODDLERS Discount Coupons at the Forum Shop! (More...)

[21 Mar] BrillKids Discount Coupons - Finally Here! (More...)

[21 Mar] BrillKids on Facebook... We've MOVED! (More...)

[15 Mar] Get KINDERBACH Discount Coupons at the Forum Shop! (More...)

[08 Mar] WINNERS OF THE VIDEO CONTEST: You, Your Baby and Little Reader Part 2! (More...)

[07 Mar] Please welcome our NEW FORUM MODERATORS: Skylark, Tanikit, TmS, and TeachingMyToddlers! (More...)

[22 Feb] Do you BLOG? Join the BrillKids Blogger Team! (More...)

[11 Feb] Affiliate Program – Use BrillKids Banners to promote your affiliate link in your blogs and websites! (More...)

[31 Jan] Important: Please Upgrade to Little Reader v2.0 (More...)

[26 Jan] BrillKids Blog - Criticisms of Teaching Your Baby To Read (More...)

[21 Jan] Share your Little Reader Success Story! (More...)

[08 Jan] Little Reader available on the iPad today! (More...)

[17 Dec] Aesop's Fables vol. 1 - New storybooks from BrillKids! (More...)

[13 Dec] Infant Stimulation Cards - New at the BrillKids Store! (More...)

[08 Dec] Christmas Sale: Give the gift of learning with BrillKids! (More...)

[29 Nov] Upgrade to Little Reader 2.0 [BETA] Now! (More...)

[19 Nov] Get Discounts for products from JONES GENIUSES! (More...)

[17 Nov] Join the HOMESCHOOLING CONTEST: Create a Monthly Theme Unit! (More...)

[08 Nov] Piano Wizard Academy Offer - Exclusive to BrillKids Members! (More...)

[23 Oct] Should music be a birthright? Is music education for everyone? (More...)

[20 Oct] Introducing the BrillKids Presentation Binder Set! (More...)

[12 Oct]Get to Know Other BrillKids Parents in Your Area (More...)

[14 Sep] Teaching your kids about music - Why is it important? (More...)

[10 Sep] The new ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE Collaborations board is now open! (More...)

[10 Sep] Meet other BrillKids Members In Your Area! (More...)

[27 Aug] Traditional Chinese Curriculum Add-On Pack for Little Reader - Now Available! (More...)

[20 Aug] Little Reader Chinese Curriculum Add-on pack - Now Available! (More...)

[5 Aug] Take Advantage of our Special Affiliate Program Promotion! (More...)

[3 Aug] Encyclopedic Knowledge Categories for FREE, made by all of us! Please join in! (More...)

[16 Jul] WINNERS OF THE VIDEO CONTEST: You, your baby and Little Reader! (More...)

[24 Jun] Be a BrillKids Affiliate and Get Rewarded! (More...)

[24 Jun] Need help from Native Speakers of SPANISH, RUSSIAN and ARABIC for Little Reader curriculum!

[01 Jun] Deadline for Submission of Entries for the LR Video Contest - Extended Until June 30! (More...)

[19 May] Facebook "LIKE" buttons are now in BrillBaby! (More...)

[25 Mar] Introducing the all new Little Reader Deluxe Kit from BrillKids! (More...)

[18 Mar] More Signing Time Coupons available at our Forum Shop! (More...)

[11 Mar] BrillKids Discount Coupons - Coming Soon! (More...)

[09 Mar] Little Math 1.6 and Semester 2 are now available! (More...)


Pages: 1 ... 27 28 [29] 30 31   Go Down
Author Topic: We Can Do by Moshe Kai with guest Robert Levy discussing Saxon Math.  (Read 376041 times)
Baby T
Posts: 31
Karma: 5
Baby: 1

Have one Grandson.... Loving it!!

View Profile
« Reply #420 on: July 29, 2014, 01:43:02 AM »

The Imani school also uses the program "Reasoning Mind"... I looked it up and it looked like it was only $20 a month for one student.  Does anyone else have any info on this program?  Maybe this is also part of their "secret".  Sorry I don't know how to create a link to the web site "Reasoning Mind", but If anyone takes a look at it I would love to know what you think. Thanks (I am not as good as everyone on here that knows how to evaluate programs... they said a couple fancy words and I was sold LOL)


Everyone makes mistakes... Mine are experiments gone bad!!
Robert Levy
Posts: 136
Karma: 135

View Profile
« Reply #421 on: July 31, 2014, 03:04:08 AM »

Thanks!  Just enough to get me started.  I did some reading on "Reasoning Mind" and I have to say, at first, it looks a lot different from the way that I taught David, but actually it may not be.  It's totally Internet-based and adaptive, so it tracks what the student is able to do, and then adjusts what is taught. In a way, it's like how I taught David, in that he didn't "progress" to the next lesson until he fully understood the one he was working - easy to do with a one student (or maybe a few), much tougher to do with 20-30 students...but if it's computer-based and adaptive, then it can be done with any number of students.

The person that developed it is a math and physics professor, unlike the "Education" majors that write today's math books for the public schools.  Additionally he's from Russia, so he obviously learned math properly.  He came here, put his kid in public school, and immediately discovered what a disaster it is (like all Russian immigrants that try out our schools).  So he developed Reasoning Mind.

Here are a few links that I found:

The classroom at Imani - not your typical-looking classroom.

A couple of articles:

In the second one (just above) he states that he adapted the Soviet system for teaching math to his Interactive/Adaptive format.  If that's the case, it would explain why the Imani kids are running circles around just about everyone they compete against.

Their website:

Posts: 450
Karma: 72
Baby: 1
Latest: 9y 11m 6d

View Profile
« Reply #422 on: July 31, 2014, 03:34:17 AM »


My wife's school uses an online based math program for remediation, and that particular program is good for review purposes but will leave a student with huge holes if it's all they did. I will show her this site for future reference.

I doubt they were using this program back in David's day and am guessing they now use it to supplement or augment what they were already doing. I also doubt that photo is their actual classroom - my guess is it's the computer lab for working with Reasoning Mind. If all their classrooms look like that, then they are one well funded school. I'd be curious to talk with one of their longer tenured teachers there to get their opinion on all of this (and what they attribute to their long standing success)

Then I read this snippet and have to admit I was wrong. They did have this back in David's day.
In 2003, the program's pilot year

« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 03:37:33 AM by PokerDad » Logged

Robert Levy
Posts: 136
Karma: 135

View Profile
« Reply #423 on: July 31, 2014, 10:50:56 AM »

The timing is close.  I was trying to figure it out also.  I think the while the school may have had this program when David competed against them, it was just starting - so David was competing with people that got most of their math education prior to the start of this program.  It's hard for me to remember the timing, but I think the math competitions ended in 6th grade (at least for him), which was when he would have been the 2003/2004 school year (he was 2 years ahead by then).

I still point to the school, however, as they continue to do really well in these competitions.  There is someone there...or probably multiple persons there, that wasn't immediately dazzled by "technology" and instead understood how to effectively use it.

Baby T
Posts: 31
Karma: 5
Baby: 1

Have one Grandson.... Loving it!!

View Profile
« Reply #424 on: August 02, 2014, 02:07:46 AM »

Thanks so much for taking the time to look that up and tell me about it. I really appreciate it!! I think I will also do the reasoning minds program with him also. I just ordered the Saxon 65 (1995), and I ordered a bunch of Kumon math books. I also got Professor phonics gives sound advice  from the library. I think we are set. Thanks again Robert Levy and PokerD!!!


Everyone makes mistakes... Mine are experiments gone bad!!
Posts: 279
Karma: 69
Baby: 3

View Profile
« Reply #425 on: August 10, 2014, 10:05:40 PM »

My son is 6 and he should be finished with Saxon 4/5 by the end of this year or early next year.  I have all the books up to 7/6.  I plan to end with Saxon here though.  I like Harold Jacobs books for high school level math and I was also able to pick up Elementary Algebra (It's like 3 books in one: pre-Algebra, Algebra 1 and 2) and Mathematics: A Human Endeavor plus workbook for $20 all together.  I felt like I robbed a bank.  I am still on the hunt for Jacobs' Geometry but I think I have a couple of years to find it for a great deal.  Harold Jacobs does a wonderful job drawing a person into math in a fun and real way without being hokey like other textbooks.  Saxon is great for getting the rote memorization down and even number sense.  I am really seeing the benefits.   It does fall short in making math exciting sometimes.  Fortunately, my son finds what he has accomplished enough satisfaction, but I want the world of math to continue being exciting.  I hope it will be an easy transition from Saxon to Jacobs. 

Has anyone compared Jacobs to Saxon?  There are a few engineers who homeschool their kids in my area and they all seem to favor Jacobs over Saxon for high school math.  I would definitely be interested, Robert, to know if you have an opinion on Jacobs' math books. 


Play Discover Learn
Let me be your early learning guide by signing up for Early Learning in 5 minutes or less series.
Robert Levy
Posts: 136
Karma: 135

View Profile
« Reply #426 on: August 11, 2014, 01:31:16 AM »

Thanks for the info - I never heard of Jacobs until now, but they have been around for a while.

I read some reviews on Jacobs, and it does seem pretty decent.  The Algebra book seems to meet my first requirement, which is not using calculators in any way (I know that the 1979 edition would not...but not as sure about the newer editions), and the reviews generally match what you've said, that Jacobs is more engaging than Saxon for kids, but a similar approach (i.e., always reviewing) and also not flashy.  There was some concern that the level of Algebra in Jacobs was a bit insufficient (i.e., too easy and therefore may not be learned as thoroughly).  I don't have any pages from Jacobs, so I can't compare myself and there weren't too many of those reviews.

So, my thoughts, based (again) on my limited experience:  If I were teaching a classroom of kids, I would probably choose Jacobs, since it looks more engaging, and it's still likely of a sufficient level.  If I'm homeschooling, I would think differently, since I have more 'flexibility' in 'motivating' my kid to do his work (and believe me I used that flexibility with David), so what looks like the main attraction to Jacobs wouldn't have been necessary for me.  The bottom line was that given the importance of math, he was going to learn it the way I demanded and there was no debating that issue.

Another way to look at it was that David was going to hate learning math regardless of how it's taught, just as he hated learning to read, and even hated learning programming, initially (but loved reading and programming once he became proficient, - for some kids (especially boys) there simply isn't any interest in sitting down and learning (anything), when there are much more fun things to do.  So, with the enjoyment benefit removed, I would then, given my experience, go back to Saxon, since I now know, 100% certain, that if you do every problem, you will not have a problem with college-level engineering math (and by doing every problem, that means doing every one until you get it right).  Obviously I can't say that with other programs as I never used them - although they may work just fine.

So it may come down, somewhat, to the parent - if you're not bothered with having to watch the kid every moment he's doing problems (as I had to), then Saxon will work well - if you rather be able to have the kid work more independently , Jacobs may be better.

Posts: 1
Karma: 0

View Profile
« Reply #427 on: August 16, 2014, 01:07:36 AM »

I learn a lot from this thread. Instructions and Information is really important. Our goal is to help you find a starting point in the Math curriculum that is challenging, but not too difficult.


I create well researched content for and is also a regular contributor to other education and self improvement related blogs.. I love reading, writing short stories, spending time with friends and family (over red wine, of course) and listening to music.

You can get me on Google+ or via  Twitter: @MsJadeBenny
You can get me on Google+ or via  Twitter: @MsJadeBenny
Posts: 22
Karma: 1
Baby: 2

View Profile
« Reply #428 on: August 16, 2014, 04:06:48 PM »

Very enlightening thread. Thank you poker dad for starting it and thanks RobertK levy for all your contributions. I am now seriously considering Saxon math for my children. Will let you all know how it works out.

Posts: 22
Karma: 1
Baby: 2

View Profile
« Reply #429 on: August 25, 2014, 04:12:46 AM »


I just thought that I would share an interesting link that I came across. Author Stephen Hake of the Saxon series writes about which editions to use

he specifically advices people to stick to the older editions from algebra1/2 through advanced math

You can read his responses about his association with Saxon, Everyday math
John Saxon's philosophy

"John Saxon had a starkly different philosophy, which he clearly stated. Our job to teach students what we know until they can stand on our shoulders. Most students do not care why; they care how. We will teach them how, and they will gradually learn why along the way. We are teaching concepts. We are giving them a bag of tools that they will know how to use to solve problems. And my favorite: Creatively springs unsolicited from a well-prepared mind."

 and also his latest Grammar series

Robert Levy
Posts: 136
Karma: 135

View Profile
« Reply #430 on: August 26, 2014, 01:00:08 PM »

Good posting, nice to see him talking about the books he was involved with.  Now I just need to find a few hours to read through it (LOL).

In any case, he seems to confirm what I mentioned earlier, which is to be sure John Saxon, himself, appears as a co-author (or only author) on any of the books you use - you'll get a good book (although some early editions are better than other early editions, as long as his name is there, it's going to be a good book).  If his name isn't there, you're rolling the dice.

Posts: 450
Karma: 72
Baby: 1
Latest: 9y 11m 6d

View Profile
« Reply #431 on: September 06, 2014, 04:29:39 PM »

A new study came out of Canada about discovery methods verses memorization and higher mathematical thinking.

The shocking conclusion was that memorization led to more higher mathematical thinking after the year-long study.

Rote Memorization Plays Crucial Role in Complex Calculations

If that link doesn't work try this one.

hat tip to Waterdreamer for finding the article.

Some Quotes from the article:
Memorizing the answers to simple math problems, such as basic addition or the multiplication tables, marks a key shift in a child’s cognitive development, because it helps bridge the gap from counting on fingers to complex calculation, according to the new brain scanning research.

By illustrating the benefit of repetition and memory (*ie, Saxon Style), and showing how it serves as a stepping stone to mature calculation
* my addition

One critic of the government’s adoption of “discovery-based learning,” Ken Porteous, a retired engineering professor, put it bluntly: “There is nothing to discover. The tried and true methods of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division work just fine as they have for centuries.

This looks eerily similar to Robert's review where he says, " When I went through my education, we learned the great names in math, like Pythagoras, Newton, and Euler, who had made great discoveries contributing to the field. I noted that my kid's name was not among them, so I decided that it was probably best to leave the discoveries to those people, while my kid simply took advantage of the discoveries and had the material taught to him."

You've got to love Robert's keen sense of humor  heh

Now, on a different note and address the recent links above:

The Stephen Hake emails (blog post/interview) are definitely worth the read. I will point out that he does disagree with Robert some regarding the newer Saxon textbooks and in opinion about Saxon Algrebra 1/2 (the pre-algebra book). In Robert's Amazon review of it, he felt it was perhaps the best book in the entire series. Hake thinks it's the one book in the series that can be skipped. It was interesting to get a slightly different viewpoint.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 07:43:07 PM by PokerDad » Logged

Robert Levy
Posts: 136
Karma: 135

View Profile
« Reply #432 on: September 07, 2014, 04:22:55 AM »

Come on now, PokerDad, that study was in Canada - we're talking about American children here (primarily).  Of course their study methhods will get different results, since the children are completely different up there (for example, they get more snow and live in smaller houses).  How can anyone have have doubts about the US educational system, when it's put us where we are relative to rest of the world?
[end of sarcasm]
My thoughts have always been that you unless you get proficient at the basics, you simply cannot enter the vaulted state of "higher-level thinking skills".  It just makes no sense to me that a person struggling with addition will be able to master the field of Differential Geometry, for example.  I never bought that argument, but I suspect that it was found to be effective at getting parents to stop asking questions such as "why aren't my kids learning their multiplication tables".   And I certainly don't have a reason to doubt that now.
My (immigrant) Russian friend, who thinks I'm a God because I showed her Saxon Math (ironically, I see her the same, as she's the only person that's ever taken my advice to use Saxon, other than hopefully on this forum) - her daughter is spending 2 months with relatives in Belarus (just started), which for people that may not know, is very similar to Russia in many ways (was part of Soviet Union, uses the same education system, speaks a very similar language, etc.).

She finished her Saxon Math 65 book, and started 4th Grade math in Belarus.  She was also born here and only her father is Belarus, so she is still trying to learn the language there, while being having math fire-hosed at her, Russian-style (no discovery learning there - direct student-on-student competitions instead).  Saxon had her completely ready for their math.  In fact, had it not been for the Saxon prep, she would probably be back here now, it's that different.  I'll keep you guys informed on how that goes.  I'll also ask my friend if there's a Russian word for "calculator", as I doubt least as it pertains to learning math.
I still laugh at that posting (at Amazon).  I was on a roll that day.  But seriously, take the example of Sir Isaac Newton, who gave us Calculus (and Physics).  He is undoubtedly one of the greatest minds in human history, and guess what, he learned Calculus through the "Discovery Method" simply because that was his only choice, as it hadn't yet been discovered (obviously).  But how did he learn Arithmetic, Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry?  I can assure you that it wasn't through the "Discovery Method" as no one used that method back then - it was Direct Instruction, and obviously without calculators.  So Mr. Newton, one of the smartest persons to ever live spends half of his adult life coming up with Calculus via the "Discovery Method", while colleges can teach that same Calculus to people of average (or maybe slightly above average) intelligence in 12 months (3 semesters).  Had Mr. Newton been expected to also learn the precursors to Calculus by the "Discovery Method", it's doubtful that he would have ever even got started on Calculus before he died.
I also noticed that with Mr. Hake regarding Algebra 1/2.  I'll still stick with my rating for it.  Here's my take:

(1)  How I remember it was that David had lightly learned pre-Algebra in the early book (Math 87) as it did cover every aspect of pre-Algebra, but what Algebra 1/2 did would pound it in, and really pound it in.  Similar, maybe, to getting a driver license.  When you get the license, you should have covered all aspects of driving, but it's going to be another 5 to 10 years before you really good at it, and can respond reflexively.  That is a big difference to me (and also a big difference to rental car and insurance companies, LOL).

(2)  I remember Math 87 as being the "optional" text in the series, but Algebra 1/2 being required.  Saxon stated that kids that did really well in Math 76 could skip to Algebra 1/2, whereas kids that struggled somewhat (or more) in Math 76 would do Math 87, and then Algebra 1/2.  So either way, Algebra 1/2 was going to get done.  I also just went to my nuclear explosion-proof vault and too out some of David's Saxon materials to look at.   In their 2001 Home Study Catalog they describe Math 87 as "a transition program for (those) who have completed Math 76, but are not ready to begin Pre-Algebra".

(3)   The first paragraph of the introduction to the Second Edition reads as follows (essentially matching what I wrote, just above):
"This is the second edition of a transitional math book designed to permit the student to move from the concrete concepts of arithmetic to the abstract concepts of algebra.  The research of Dr. Benjamin Bloom has shown that long-term practice beyond mastery can lead to a state that he calls 'automaticity'.  When automaticity is attained at on conceptual level, the student is freed from the constraints of the mechanics of the problem solving at that level and can consider the problems at a higher conceptual level.  Thus, this book concentrates on automating the concepts and skills of arithmetic as the abstract concepts of algebra are slowly introduced.  The use of every concept previously introduced is required in every problem set thereafter.  THIS PERMITS STUDENTS TO WORK ON ATTAINING SPEED AND ACCURACY AT EVERY CONCEPTUAL LEVEL (note:  the original text is bold here, I capitalized, instead).  Students often resist this practice because they feel that if they have already mastered a concept, no further practice is required.  The do not realize that being able to work the problem slowly is not sufficient.  They need to be reminded that mathematics is like other disciplines.  For example, playing a musical instrument well requires long-term practice of the fundamentals.  Playing football, golf, tennis, or any other sport well requires long-term practice and the automation of fundamentals.  Mathematics also requires this long-term practice."

(4)  One other comment, buried somewhere in the book, that I remember, goes something like this (although I wasn't able to find it in the text):  "We realize that many of these problems are contrived and the student will never see them in the real world.  However, doing these problems will get the student very proficient at the underlying math and so that when they come across similar, but simpler, problems, they will solve them with ease."  This comment was written at some point in the book where the problems were getting totally insane (very long arithmetic, pre-algebraic, strings) they felt that they had to explain why they were doing it.  It was those kind of problems that convinced me that this was the best math book ever written, something I still believe.  Any kid that does all of the Algebra 1/2 problems (and works them until getting the right answers) will breeze through Algebra, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

(5) Mr. Hake is a co-author (with Mr. Saxon) on my Math 87 book, while Mr. Saxon is the only author on my Algebra 1/2 book.  You can draw your own conclusions as to what that means, if anything.

Posts: 22
Karma: 1
Baby: 2

View Profile
« Reply #433 on: September 13, 2014, 06:29:47 AM »


I just realised that you had already posted the links regarding Stephen Hake's opinions on Saxon math, in March.
My apologies for the oversight unsure 

Posts: 22
Karma: 1
Baby: 2

View Profile
« Reply #434 on: September 22, 2014, 06:17:59 AM »

My elder dd has started saxon 76. She was having problems with math at school, but seems to be fine with saxon ...Keeping my fingers crossed

When do you stop skipping the initial revision chapters? Which level books?

 I am receiving the Saxon algebra books this week. " I "feel excited about it smile

Waiting to start my younger one on Saxon 54. She has just started doing addition equations and subtraction. Just the white board, marker pen and number line as Robert suggested thumbs up
(she also finger counts though)

Pages: 1 ... 27 28 [29] 30 31   Go Up
Jump to:  

Recent Threads

by sierra, April 09, 2022, 01:13:23 PM
by berryjohnson, February 05, 2020, 12:41:49 PM
by joeroot9690, February 05, 2020, 12:25:57 PM
by joeroot9690, February 05, 2020, 12:24:18 PM
by joeroot9690, February 05, 2020, 12:22:17 PM
by joeroot9690, February 05, 2020, 12:20:27 PM
by joeroot9690, February 05, 2020, 12:18:26 PM
by joeroot9690, February 05, 2020, 12:15:58 PM
by sandanna, February 05, 2020, 10:36:49 AM
by berryjohnson, February 04, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
by joeroot9690, February 01, 2020, 01:57:09 PM
by joeroot9690, February 01, 2020, 01:52:43 PM
by joeroot9690, February 01, 2020, 01:47:02 PM
by joeroot9690, January 31, 2020, 09:23:41 AM
by joeroot9690, January 31, 2020, 09:20:23 AM
Page: 1/4  

Recently Added Files

tamil - months by BhavaniJothi, Dec. 05, 2019
More Shapes - More shapes not originally included in L... by Kballent, Oct. 23, 2019
test1 - test by SSbei, Sep. 08, 2019
Purple Foods - I made some lessons with colored food f... by Kballent, Aug. 07, 2019
Green Foods - I made some lessons with colored food f... by Kballent, Aug. 07, 2019
Yellow Foods - I made some lessons with colored food f... by Kballent, Aug. 07, 2019
Orange - I made some lessons with colored food f... by Kballent, Aug. 07, 2019
Red Food - I made some lessons with colored food f... by Kballent, Aug. 07, 2019
White Foods - As part of Color Themes I made some less... by Kballent, Aug. 07, 2019
Fruits & veggies mascots - This is Polish \"must have\" mascots :) ... by Agnole, Feb. 24, 2018
Page: 1/3  

  • Total Posts: 110513
  • Total Topics: 19123
  • Online Today: 121
  • Online Ever: 826
  • (January 22, 2020, 12:09:49 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 65
  • Total: 65

TinyPortal v1.0.5 beta 1© Bloc

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM
Home | File Downloads | Search | Members | BrillBaby | BrillKids | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy
Copyright © 2022 BrillKids Inc. All rights reserved.